Skip to comments.Treating Depression: Is there a placebo effect? (PROZAC, OTHER SSRIs VIRTUALLY WORTHLESS)
Posted on 02/19/2012 6:07:06 PM PST by MindBender26
click here to read article
Sorry, but don’t shoot the messenger. Read # 33.
Another clue that something more than a placebo effect is occurring are the often dramatic and very unpleasant symptoms that can occur especially when a short-acting SSRI such as paroxetine is abruptly withdrawn. Not uncommonly the original depression/anxiety will be augmented by any number of bizarre and uncomfortable sensations. Depression support group forums are full of such stories. Some patients actually titrate down (medical, not chemistry definition lol) by half a milligram a week to avoid this!
I started Paxil more than 10 years ago. I can see a big difference in me. I hate being a bitch.
“Company and FDA knew there are dozens of studies that show SSRIs have major negative side effects and little or no positive effects, but ignored those studies in approving drug.”
Where do you suppose our explosion of children with autism over the last 20 years has come from?
Perinatal antidepressant stunts brain development in rats
Or how about long term SSRI use Worsening depression?
Now Antidepressant-Induced Chronic Depression Has a Name: Tardive Dysphoria
And then there’s all that drug co. advertising garbage about antidepressants curing a brain chemical imbalance
Serotonin and Depression: A Disconnect between the Advertisements and the Scientific Literature
Don’t let anyone buffalo you on this because it came from CBS and not Fox. It’s a great post no matter which MSM outlet ran the story.
Several years back, I took the antidepressant Pamelor for about a year, and it really seemed to help me with depression and anxiety.
I haven’t taken any psychotropics since then, but I really felt the effect of those pills. To say they have no effect at all, or are the same as sugar, just isn’t right.
Worse than useless ! DANGEROUS !
“and conservatives will go into fits wondering about what unmarried women should do, “
I wouldn’t be in fits. I think most women should marry. There are a FEW who are given the GIFT of singleness, that is to say, they can be content outside of marriage. But the vast majority of women should marry. And take their so to speak natural anti-depressant.
Some may say it is hard for women to find a good man. Sometimes perhaps. But if you “lower your standards” - not that you have to marry a big jerk, but one who is maybe heavier or poorer or isn’t as “cool” as you dreamed of - there’d probably be a good man for you.
Big difference between the numbers of men and women on dating/marriage sites, so, to sum up, I wouldn’t have fits, I’d recommend marriage to almost everybody.
Good ole Sativa has been known for putting a Cheshire Cat Grin on a many a folk since before recorded history.
I have taken an anti depressant for years now. (2005?) Several times I’ve stopped taking it, thinking I didn’t need it anymore, not wanting to need it anymore, but every time I had to go back on it. I really felt the loss of it when I didn’t take it! I take Nefazodone, it’s an old medication but works for me.
SeeBS. Wouldn't trust them to tell me the time much less about drugs. They are well known to make crap up to fit their political agenda.
92% of all statistics are made up on the spot. I think this article was made up on the spot.
We don’t know enough to muck with brain chemistry.
The vested purpose of medicine is population control.
With depression what works on one person, doesn't work on another...at times the doctor has to try several different ones to find the one that works....Years back I was on 3 different one's before we found the one that worked with me.....clinical depression has many symptoms, not just "I am feeling really down today". If you haven't been in that deep hole, don't be too quick to judge....
The vested purpose of GOVERNMENT-RUN medicine is population control.
The Field of reasearch into Medical Marijuana is just beginning.
The MSM does not have a good record when it comes to interpreting science stats so I would take anything they report on the subject with a grain of salt.
Thanks for clarifying!
I can’t remember the name of it, but my neurologist gave me 5mg tabs of some antidepressant to treat migraine. He said to try 1 or 2, so I started with 2. Wow, I felt like a total zombie all day. He said later that the therapeutic dose for depression is something like 100mg. I cannot believe that anyone could function at that level. In a very short time I gained 10 pounds and said no more of that stuff. He switched me to something else that works much, much better without side effects.
I agree. I suffered from a symptom-based depression after the death of a loved one. I knew something wasn’t right, but that I wasn’t sick.
I decided not to go through my doctor, but got a referral from a friend to see a therapist. We discussed the possibility of medication, but once I got through the first messy block of grieving, I improved and there was a better direction for me than medication.
I think the big problem is that medication isn’t always prescribed in concert with therapy and sometimes without any type of quality diagnosis with a psychologist or psychiatrist.
IMHO, the number one treatment for depression is exercise.
I don’t know about depression, but they work wonders with anxiety. I can vouch from personal experience. My sister was having severe irrational anxiety attacks and wouldn’t leave her house. Her husband had to practically kidnap her to get her to evacuate for Hurricane Katrina. Then she wouldn’t get out of the car when they reached their destination. She was a basket case for no apparent reason. She started taking Prozac and you wouldn’t know it’s the same person. She’s happy, enjoying life, and she and her husband take frequent trips. But depression may be another story.
I went to my doctor first to rule out anything physical. He then sent me to a great psychiatrist (I was lucky, some are not so good). It was a long road back but as long as I was on medication, he saw me once a month. That went on for 3 years....back in the 70's when you never heard of depression...
My husband of 33 years passed on 20 years ago and I understand how grief can take its toll, but it does pass, not quickly but softens after a while. I think grief is something we have to go through there is no short cuts and for me medication for that was not the answer. You just take it one day at a time... We sound like 2 lucky people that found the right road for ourselves...:O)
The problem with being a *know it all* is they remain ignorant at best or just plain dumb at worse...
Sybil, we recently learned, was a hoax concocted by a psychologist.
If you can overcome sadness and melancholy with drugs or talk therapy, good for you.
If you can’t, bad for you, but don’t blame yourself.
All you need is love. That’s all.
which lead to other hoaxes.
Here’s what happened to Rod Serling’s daughter after her bratty teenager read Sybil...
Before I got on meds I exercised, mostly jogging & calisthenics. I liked the endorphin. It also helped allay some of my hypochondria that stalked me between periods of depression.
Finally bit the bullet and the change was amazing.
Love those happy pills. Better living through chemistry!
Ah yes, a study by a psychologist, who is not credentialed to prescribe meds, and specifically a research psychologist, who is not charged with the responsibility of relieving the suffering of a long line of people who come to him in a practice setting each day.
Ideal meds for every person? Of course not. Game changers for a significant number who suffer greatly? You betcha!
“Game changers for a significant number who suffer greatly? You betcha!”
Yes, they certainly are.
Maybe Ron Paul is right - legalize Cocaine and Valium for OTC and it will solve the problems that the “voodoo” (we have no idea how they really work or what they do to you) drugs cannot.....
And wonder how the study was done.
Big Pharma cured small pox in the US. Cured malaria world wide until that nut case that wrote Silent Spring and the governments banned DDT. In the 3rd world millions of children die of malaria now that would be living if DDT were allowed to be used.and her thesis was build on a lie of thin eagle eggs. What a joke Rachael Carson was and those that follow her line of thinking....
If you have children I am sure you get them their polio, diphtheria and pertussis medication. Those 3 are baby killers...When I was young there wasn't a Salk or Sabin vaccine for polio. You want to know horrible, research the effects of Polio.
Don't get the idea I think pharacuticals are all OK. Lives are saved, but I do believe that many medications cost too much and you can thank the government for making it so difficult to develop new medications. The food and drug administration are a joke many times....
If you get sick, don't go to the doctor, you will be supporting *big pharma*. Just hope what you have will not kill you and tough out your sickness alone..
You’re not the messenger; you’re the Head Cheerleader.
You are right, some of the response's on this thread are sophomoric, and by what they say, you know they don't know much about what they are talking about. Some even think the larger letters they use make them smarter...:O)
If the Harvard study said that Wellbutrin is an SSRI, it is useless.
Insulin has been around for decades,long before big-government/big-corporate criminal complex took over health care.
Give me one example of something the big-government/big corporate criminal complex does that is about anything except money.
>>Some of the problem is the primary care physicians simply do not investigate possible physical or neurological causes enough before sending patients to a Psychiatrist or prescribing antidepressants.<<
In our office, my doctors prescribed tons of Non-chemical treatments. The big guy was the guy who was taking people off as many meds as he could.
All I’m saying is that CBS and even Harvard are pushing for Obama’s plan. Which is why I said, watch the other hand. There is a reason why they are stating that SSRIs are as effective as placebo. There are many other disorders treated with them. Depression is not the only one. And it’s a whole lot cheaper to tell someone that the problem can be cured with exercise than to actually research the right chemical as you did.
It's a $$ saving scheme from Obama & Co. It's the death panel's sister: misery panel.
They prosecuted him multiple times, and judges excoriated the FDA multiple times for doing so. While he was in jail that patented drugs he had already patented, planning on him never getting out of jail.
I am all for medicine. I am completely against the big-government/big-corporate medical complex that is a cancer unto itself.
Did you even bother to read the Harvard study or watch the story?
For the pill-poppers here too lazy to read the study, here is the abstract, notes on the authors and the conclusions:
Irving Kirsch1*, Brett J. Deacon2, Tania B. Huedo-Medina3, Alan Scoboria4, Thomas J. Moore5, Blair T. Johnson3
1 Department of Psychology, University of Hull, Hull, United Kingdom, 2 University of Wyoming, Laramie, Wyoming, United States of America, 3 Center for Health, Intervention, and Prevention, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut, United States of America, 4 Department of Psychology, University of Windsor, Windsor, Ontario, Canada, 5 Institute for Safe Medication Practices, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Meta-analyses of antidepressant medications have reported only modest benefits over placebo treatment, and when unpublished trial data are included, the benefit falls below accepted criteria for clinical significance. Yet, the efficacy of the antidepressants may also depend on the severity of initial depression scores. The purpose of this analysis is to establish the relation of baseline severity and antidepressant efficacy using a relevant dataset of published and unpublished clinical trials.
Methods and Findings
We obtained data on all clinical trials submitted to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the licensing of the four new-generation antidepressants for which full datasets were available. We then used meta-analytic techniques to assess linear and quadratic effects of initial severity on improvement scores for drug and placebo groups and on drugplacebo difference scores. Drugplacebo differences increased as a function of initial severity, rising from virtually no difference at moderate levels of initial depression to a relatively small difference for patients with very severe depression, reaching conventional criteria for clinical significance only for patients at the upper end of the very severely depressed category. Meta-regression analyses indicated that the relation of baseline severity and improvement was curvilinear in drug groups and showed a strong, negative linear component in placebo groups.
Drugplacebo differences in antidepressant efficacy increase as a function of baseline severity, but are relatively small even for severely depressed patients. The relationship between initial severity and antidepressant efficacy is attributable to decreased responsiveness to placebo among very severely depressed patients, rather than to increased responsiveness to medication.
Editors’ Summary Top
Everyone feels miserable occasionally. But for some peoplethose with depressionthese sad feelings last for months or years and interfere with daily life. Depression is a serious medical illness caused by imbalances in the brain chemicals that regulate mood. It affects one in six people at some time during their life, making them feel hopeless, worthless, unmotivated, even suicidal. Doctors measure the severity of depression using the Hamilton Rating Scale of Depression (HRSD), a 1721 item questionnaire. The answers to each question are given a score and a total score for the questionnaire of more than 18 indicates severe depression. Mild depression is often treated with psychotherapy or talk therapy (for example, cognitivebehavioral therapy helps people to change negative ways of thinking and behaving). For more severe depression, current treatment is usually a combination of psychotherapy and an antidepressant drug, which is hypothesized to normalize the brain chemicals that affect mood. Antidepressants include tricyclics, monoamine oxidases, and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). SSRIs are the newest antidepressants and include fluoxetine, venlafaxine, nefazodone, and paroxetine.
Why Was This Study Done?
Although the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the UK National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), and other licensing authorities have approved SSRIs for the treatment of depression, some doubts remain about their clinical efficacy. Before an antidepressant is approved for use in patients, it must undergo clinical trials that compare its ability to improve the HRSD scores of patients with that of a placebo, a dummy tablet that contains no drug. Each individual trial provides some information about the new drug’s effectiveness but additional information can be gained by combining the results of all the trials in a meta-analysis, a statistical method for combining the results of many studies. A previously published meta-analysis of the published and unpublished trials on SSRIs submitted to the FDA during licensing has indicated that these drugs have only a marginal clinical benefit. On average, the SSRIs improved the HRSD score of patients by 1.8 points more than the placebo, whereas NICE has defined a significant clinical benefit for antidepressants as a drugplacebo difference in the improvement of the HRSD score of 3 points. However, average improvement scores may obscure beneficial effects between different groups of patient, so in the meta-analysis in this paper, the researchers investigated whether the baseline severity of depression affects antidepressant efficacy.
What Did the Researchers Do and Find?
The researchers obtained data on all the clinical trials submitted to the FDA for the licensing of fluoxetine, venlafaxine, nefazodone, and paroxetine. They then used meta-analytic techniques to investigate whether the initial severity of depression affected the HRSD improvement scores for the drug and placebo groups in these trials. They confirmed first that the overall effect of these new generation of antidepressants was below the recommended criteria for clinical significance. Then they showed that there was virtually no difference in the improvement scores for drug and placebo in patients with moderate depression and only a small and clinically insignificant difference among patients with very severe depression. The difference in improvement between the antidepressant and placebo reached clinical significance, however, in patients with initial HRSD scores of more than 28that is, in the most severely depressed patients. 1Additional analyses indicated that the apparent clinical effectiveness of the antidepressants among these most severely depressed patients reflected a decreased responsiveness to placebo rather than an increased responsiveness to antidepressants.
What Do These Findings Mean?
These findings suggest that, compared with placebo, the new-generation antidepressants do not produce clinically significant improvements in depression in patients who initially have moderate or even very severe depression, but show significant effects only in the most severely depressed patients. The findings also show that the effect for these patients seems to be due to decreased responsiveness to placebo, rather than increased responsiveness to medication. Given these results, the researchers conclude that there is little reason to prescribe new-generation antidepressant medications to any but the most severely depressed patients unless alternative treatments have been ineffective. In addition, the finding that extremely depressed patients are less responsive to placebo than less severely depressed patients but have similar responses to antidepressants is a potentially important insight into how patients with depression respond to antidepressants and placebos that should be investigated further.
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