Posted on 02/16/2012 12:21:08 AM PST by coldphoenix
Astute article that gives good reasons on why the Rafale won. Simple, to the point, and with good points.
Hmm... low fuel... that's like saying you want your best swimmer to be restricted on calorie intake and outburst ability.
US fighters were fine, imo. I do not understand Indian leftist politicians. They complain about how they were colonized, but they always use that to bash America, the one which had to also free itself from British colonization. Yet India having lost to Russians in the past and been colonized by the French and the British keeps coming back to them like a puppy dog... communists are really clever in how they orientate nationalism of various nations against AMerica.
I don’t blame the Indians for not trusting us. The U.S. sends Pakistan $2 billion per year, and we know that Pakistan supports terrorists who are fighting against India. Even if 0.1% (one-tenth of one percent) of that aid we send to Pakistan makes it into the hands of the terrorists, that’s still $2 million. That’s plenty of scratch to wage a terrorist campaign indefinitely.
I totally understand not trusting us in any situation.
If this was all about American bashing, how come India has started buying billions worth of US weaponry since 2005? While the US still ships off military aid to the Pakis.
The US aircraft, while more mature and affordable, lost because they were nearing the end of their development curves and had lower kinematic performance. Unlike the newer European designs, which were optmised to take on threats like the SU-27, which is flown by the PLAAF.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/dogfight.pdf
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/the-rafales-long-flight-to-india/464320/
Some of that ‘aid’ finances the purchases of weapons like the AMRAAM and Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Which have no relevance in anti-terror operations.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/Force_June_2011-Ashley_J._Tellis.pdf
A commentary by the same author on the technical reasons why US planes were eliminated.
I think I'll call a miss on
However, its previous major sale to India was the Jaguar light attack aircraft in the 1970s. In fact, this aircraft was jointly developed by Britain and France on a 50/50 basis, and while it was license-produced by HAL it was never really successful as a fighterIn service in India since 1980, In production until 2008. Being reengined to serve until the MCA becomes available in the mid 2020s. Someone in Indian defence must like them
That was the last, and least, of 10 other reasons given why the decision made was made. Also, they never said American planes were not adequate (and the F/A-18 was the most mature plane in the competition) ...just that the two finalists (the Rafale and the Typhoon) were better.
That is something that has been said in other competitions, most recently the Switzerland competition in 2011 where the Rafale won the technical trials easily, and the Swiss selected the Gripen due to cost. The benchmark for the Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen in the competition was the F/A-18E, which the Rafale and Typhoon easily beat. I have a chart from the competition in one of my posts from last week but one. I just don't see how the Indian selection is America bashing ...especially considering the points given, and the fact that India has spent billions on other key equipment. Just not first line of battle equipment for very good reasons given in the article. For instance, taking the example of the Kargil escalation, do you really believe the US would have given India permission to make adjustments to equipment on the fly in the way France did? Or give almost full transfer of technology on advanced avionics technology and make them a full partner like the Eurofighter consortium was doing? Or would the US lease a Virginia class submarine, or even an older LA class submarine, to India the way Russia did? What about the comfort of knowing that there will not be restrictions of using equipment, and in the even of a conflagration Delhi doesnt have to get DC's approval to waft left or shunt right?
Then it shouldn't be a surprise that American equipment will not win 100% of the time. Furthermore, even with those considerations, India has spent billions on such equipment as C-130s and Apache helicopters and Poseidon anti-submarine aircraft. Just don't expect India to select the F-35 over the PakFa or the F-16 over the Rafale.
Yes, and you can also add that the Jaguar was promoted only by the British against the French Mirage F-1. There are twice as many Jaguars in Indian service as there are Mirage-2000s.
Not to forget numerous other British aircraft which were sold to India prior to that-the Vampire, Canberra, Hunter, Gnat, Sea Hawk and Harrier.
However, it misses the point entirely that both the Eurofighter and the Rafale were deemed "qualified" by the military, and it became a simple price and technology transfer shootout.
Had the Eurofighter been lower priced, would we see a similar article stating how long and trusted the Indo-British military aircraft ties were?
Vital weapons such as missiles and fighters, when they cannot be locally produced, will remain the preserve of France and Russia.
What about vital components such as the engine for the Tejas? Again, a manufactured "reason" why the F-16IN and F/A-18E/F were eliminated.
Do you really think the LCA/Tejas is gonna be a frontline fighter..unlike the MMRCA..
Who knows exactly what goes on behind closed doors. we commoners can only speculate...
No, not a front line fighter, but a front line high volume light attack replacement for their MiG-21s, and perhaps a carrier based multi-role aircraft. Not exactly the "second tier" cargo aircraft the article suggests.
“Political considerations were also a significant factor playing against Rafale’s final competitor, the Eurofighter Typhoon. As this aircraft is produced by a consortium of four nations, each with different foreign policies and different attitudes and tolerances to arms exports, Indian officials were a bit nervous about their ultimate reliability as a single supplier.”
“Yet India having lost to Russians in the past and been colonized by the French”
Huh?
I am wondering with this MMRCA deal if India could rope in Dassault for the joint development of the 5th generation AMCA extending on the SNECMA-Kaveri engine jv. France does not have a 5th generation fighter program yet. Both countries would be at the starting point and unlike PakFa, a French-Indian AMCA jv might provide valuable design and development experience for DRDO and HAL.
I am wondering with this MMRCA deal if India could rope in Dassault for the joint development of the 5th generation AMCA extending on the SNECMA-Kaveri engine jv. France does not have a 5th generation fighter program yet. Both countries would be at the starting point and unlike PakFa, a French-Indian AMCA jv might provide valuable design and development experience for DRDO and HAL.
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