Posted on 01/10/2010 12:47:27 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
"...G. Vance Smith, a committed Mormon, now leads the Society. Vance Smith is systematically removing people from leadership positions within the John Birch Society and replacing them with Mormons. One gathers that Smith does not feel that he is accountable to the membership concerning his reasons for the replacement of longtime leadership. There seems to be no accountability factor. Longtime Birchers are leaving the Society en masse.
There seems to be a major concern that the Society is fast becoming a puppet for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One document that I received suggests that Smith's course of action is tied in with his Mormon belief that, "The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread."
Note the words of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young:
"Will the Constitution be destroyed? No; it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, 'The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from threatened destruction.' It will be so." (Journal of Discourses,7:15.) Young also made another "prophecy" about the same circumstances: "Brethren and sisters, our friends wish to know our feelings towards the Government. I answer, they are first rate, and we will prove it too, as you will see if you only live long enough, for that we shall live to prove it is certain, and when the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forward and do it." (Journal of Discourses, 2:182.)
There is yet a third voice explaining this" prophecy," and that is the voice of Orson Hyde, a contemporary of Joseph Smiths because he was one of his Twelve Apostles, who wrote this, also quoted in Journal of Discourses:
"It is said that brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, and rescue it, and save it. I believe he said something like this - that the time would come when the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he, If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it." (Journal of Discourses, 6:152) Does Vance Smith believe that this is a prophecy made by his Prophet that has yet to be fulfilled, and does he see the Birch Society in all of its endeavors striving to be the group to "step forward and do it" to save the Constitution in junction with the LDS Church? Is this why he is systematically removing longtime Birchers from leadership positions and replacing them with Mormons? Time will tell."
The main point is: Mormons believe in prophecies specifically about the US Constitution and a time where there will be a spiritual duty for Mormons to rise up and "preserve it." I find this pretty interesting.
Also note, this article is from 2002. The current president of JBS is not G. Vance Smith, but Art Thompson. I am not sure what his affiliations are. Of course every conspiracy should be taken with a grain of salt. :)
*PING* (think you might be interested in this.)
“At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from threatened destruction.”
Bring on the Mormon warriors.
While I appreciate a lot of the material covered on his show and his obvious patriotism--I am not sure how clear the line is between his religion and his politics. I am not aware of how a "Mormon worldview" works.
I obviously am not against the free expression of religion in this country, nor am I against allying with members of different religions around common causes--such as the pro-life movement. THAT being said, I hope Christians keep a discerning eye and remember that their primary allegiance is to Jesus Christ, HIS Gospel, HIS kingdom (which is "not of this world") and living by the Word of God. Christ must take primacy over nation, over the Constitution.
Jesus never advocated political revolt against Caesar, nor did he ever wave an American flag. Christians in this country need to keep that in mind as they prayerfully sift through how to participate in the democratic society we're so blessed live in. The early Christians of the Bible and Christians throughout other parts of the world today live under very different political conditions, places that would make Obama seem like George Washington.
All this John Bircher Society-LDS-Romney/CPAC stuff is quite enlightening if I do say so myself. I am glad I am not taking part in such a convention, which in addition to JBS has "GOProud" sponsoring it. While I believe homosexuals have every right to hold fiscally conservative viewpoints and every right to live in this country and even practice their lifestyle in private--I do not want to be a part of a party giving their agenda such a prominent sense of validation. I am glad Palin will not be attending and by contrast, "The Tea Party Convention" is made up of far more respectable organizations and speakers.
I am not sure where Palin stands theologically with regard to her Christianity. However, I know that her faith is genuine and not a front, and that she seeks guidance from the God of the BIBLE and not the false, creepy Book of Mormon.
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
I agree that in the context given the Constitution was divinely inspired.
That context is that the founders were seeking divine guidance to give them the inspiration to create the excellence found in America’s Constitution. The founders recognized that the people had an inherent right to a belief in a creator but the government did not.
I am particularly fond of the words in the preamble, “secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity”.
Does Glenn Beck count as a Mormon elder? Because he sure as heck is doing more to save the Constitution than anyone else in the country. Mark Levin is also doing a heck of a job educating Americans with “Liberty and Tyranny”. But this is just evidence of the Mormon-Jewish conspiracy.
Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains of tyranny from Great Britain By divine call, Citing 27 biblical violations they wrote the Declaration of Independence With liberty and justice for all. But something happened since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone For American liberty then put it in our schools as a light Or since "Give me liberty, or give me death," Patrick Henry said Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Fifty two men of the 55 who formed the Constitution were active Christians. Although many of them by today's church standards would be rejected because they were Deist. History is full of all kinds of tidbits of information. But the war on Mormons and the war on Birchers is ridiculous. I know one here in FR who is Mormon and he is devout in his love for and belief in Christ as his savior. I want say his name because I don't want the goon squad going after him.
I don't much agree with Basic Mormon belief beyond Jesus Christ is our savior. I know a few Birchers and I'll tell you this I can think of no better person to have as a neighbor and friend especially in these times. The same with Mormons. I have Mormon cousins. I have Catholic aunts and cousins including a Priest. I'm not a Bircher either. The Birchers I know or knew were Baptist interesting enough.
Another thread makes a Romney/Birch connection. I would not vote for Romney as dog catcher but it isn't because he is Mormon. BTW folks one of the Cheneys has close ties to a company highly associated with JBS as it;s founder was a primary funder to get JBS started at all. Are we going to have a Cheney/Bircher thread also? Good grief people. Even the late Paul Weyrich had a man who filled in many times for him on his show and that man was Mormon, Paul trusted him.
Some need to go find themselves a better boogieman to chase. If many of todays churches did even a tenth of the missionary work LDS does and has their youth doing maybe this nation might return back to some moral sanity you think? I can only think of one church with equal or maybe a larger missionary field than the Mormons and that is the Roman Catholic Church.
Nah! It's much easier to just sit back and bash Mormons and call Birchers Kooks so says this Baptist.
Nice post.
Thanks. Well it’s bed time for me :>}
It was a huge red flag for me when Glenn Beck had the nerve to call the Constitution a “divinely inspired” document...That is blasphemous. ONLY the *BIBLE* is God-breathed!
Sorry, but if you really believe what you said above, you don’t read or understand the Bible very well, nor do you understand the nature of the Constitution or the men who labored to bring it forth for the benefit of mankind.
Sorry Had to do it. LOL
Yes, Glenn Beck is an Elder in the Church.
Mitt is a High Priest.
Glenn is doing more to save the Constitution than any mere politician could do.
People here need to get a life, prophesy or not, if any one from any faith step up to help preserve this great, and yes, divinely inspired Constitution, they have my support.
From an LDS Apostle.
From an LDS Prophet
(Ezra Taft Benson, strong supporter of the JBS)
*ping*
"I have faith that the Constitution will be saved as prophesied by Joseph Smith. It will be saved by the righteous citizens of this nation who love and cherish freedom. It will be saved by enlightened members of this Church—among others—men and women who understand and abide the principles of the Constitution.
I reverence the Constitution of the United States as a sacred document. To me its words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed His stamp of approval upon it.
I testify that the God of heaven sent some of His choicest spirits to lay the foundation of this government, and He has now sent other choice spirits to help preserve it.
We, the blessed beneficiaries of the Constitution, face difficult days in America, “a land which is choice above all other lands” (Ether 2:10).
May God give us the faith and the courage exhibited by those patriots who pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.
May we be equally as valiant and as free, I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."
Benson said it would be men and women both (see above post)
Rammell is a sexist jerk who thinks way too fondly of himself.
Someone on here told me not too long ago they were a member for years and then quit. Interesting thank you.
I read John Eidsmoe's "Christianity and the Constitution". He concludes that less than 5% of the founders were not christians by our standards. This is hardly "many", even if those 5% were shown to be deists which he could not. For you see a deist by definition is one who believes that after the demiurge created the world, he set it motion and does not interfer. Even Ben Franklin believed that God intervenes in the affairs of men. Not deists.
Ping
Of course, then they would have to throw under the bus all the Founding Fathers who were Masons, including George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, John Paul Jones, Robert Livingston, Paul Revere, etc.
When done with them and the Mormons, they can then move on to whatever else doesn’t fit their definition.
There it is, the expected anti Mormon brigade ping.
Time to move on... It’s been fun people.
As I understand it, every male Mormon in good standing over the age of 12 is an “elder”.
18 is the earliest age that one can be ordained an Elder in the LDS church.
More of Ezra Taft Benson and the Founding Fathers...on the proxy baptism of and confirmation after death as members of the mormon church
Those who say that in this country one's religion should be relegated to his private life alone and never be allowed to "intrude" on his public activities should study the Founding Fathers. This nation has a spiritual foundation. Its wellsprings are themselves religious. Its life is deeply rooted in faith.
When I became President of the Twelve and Spencer W. Kimball became President of the Church, we met, just the two of us, every week after our Thursday meetings in the temple, just to be sure that things were properly coordinated between the Twelve and the First Presidency. After one of those first meetings, we talked about the many sacred documents in some of the older temples. St. George was mentioned in particular because St. George is our oldest temple in Utah. I had a stake conference down there about that time, and it was agreed that I would go into the archives -- the walk-in vault -- of that great temple and review the sacred documents that were there. We were planning for the remodeling and renovating of the St. George Temple and thought that the records might possibly be moved to Salt Lake for safekeeping. And there in the St. George Temple I saw what I had always hoped and prayed that someday I would see. Ever since I returned as a humble missionary and first learned that the Founding Fathers had appeared in that temple, I wanted to see the record. And I saw the record. They did appear to Wilford Woodruff twice and asked why the work hadn't been done for them. They had founded this country and the Constitution of this land, and they had been true to those principles. Later the work was done for them.
In the archives of the temple, I saw in a book, in bold handwriting, the names of the Founding Fathers and others, including Columbus and other great Americans, for whom the work had been done in the house of the Lord. This is all one great program on both sides of the veil. We are fortunate to be engaged in it on this side of the veil. I think the Lord expects us to take an active part in preserving the Constitution and our freedom.
The Founding Fathers of this nation, those great men, appeared within those sacred walls of the St. George Temple and had their vicarious work done for them. President Wilford Woodruff spoke of it in these words: "Before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, `You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God.'"
After he became President of the Church, President Wilford Woodruff declared that "those men who laid the foundation of this American government were the best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits [and] were inspired of the Lord."
The temple work (proxy baptism and confirmation as members of the mormon church among other rituals) for the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence and other Founding Fathers has been done. All these appeared to Wilford Woodruff when he was president of the St. George Temple. President George Washington was ordained a high priest at that time. You will also be interested to know that, according to Wilford Woodruff's journal, John Wesley, Benjamin Franklin, and Christopher Columbus were also ordained high priests at that time. When one casts doubt about the character of these noble sons of God, I believe he or she will have to answer to the God of heaven for it. Yes, with Lincoln I say: "To add brightness to the sun or glory to the name of Washington is . . . impossible. Let none attempt it. In solemn awe pronounce the name and in its deathless splendor, leave it shining on."
Source: Benson, Ezra Taft, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson. Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988. 602 - 604.
Oh that’s right, they can become Aaronic priests at age 12.
Boy, you sure a buzzkill on what was shaping up to be a perfectly good Mormon/JBS bashing thread...magritte
While I have been both a member and a critic of the JBS over the years and I do find that at times the views among many members are a bit to the extreme side, however these are indeed shaping up to be extreme times I fear. As it is for the vast majority of JBS folk I don't question that their motives are anything but pure, based on a love for what we are/were and the ideals we a based on.
As for the LDS, I have my doubts, at least from their leadership and higher level folks and this G. Vance Smith guy secures those doubts even further. I think SLC wants to further the own legacy for lack of a better term, extend their own power.
As an aside, I think the rank and file LDS are in the fight for the right reasons, though I have nothing specific I feel even some here have in some way blown of the whole white horse bit and they are in it for their families and country, little more.
While I welcome anyone to the fight for the constitution and our ideals, be they JBS, Mormons, Hindus, even screaming mad Muslims if they were so motivated, I would be wary of those with other motivations even if their words were “what I wanted to hear”...
Oh well, I trust you more than Google :-)
JBS.org has a list of top folks shown...
Read her book.
Grew up influenced by Catholic teachings; moved into pentacostal later on.
You said the Magic Word!
You need to read a bit more closely: it's MORMONism that is EXPOSED (not bashed) - not MORMONs.
You have my bumper sticker for a tagline!
From an LDS Prophet
(Ezra Taft Benson, strong supporter of the JBS)
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
| The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
Fly my pretties!
NO need to leave!
We bring you Scripture and words of the Prophet!
Uh yea right. The first person went after was Beck. Look I know a few of them myself. I'm not a Mormon and I personally do not believe a majority of their doctrine. That being said based on statements and profession of faith as well as the fruits produced by Mormons I do know I hold nothing against them. One I know of a Freeper is about the most patriotic and Christ loving and proclaiming as Lord and Savior person I know even under severe adversity. His life proves his fruits. Personally I'm going to let GOD via the Holy Spirit who leads to all truths sort it out. And again I am talking about the mainstream LDS Mormons.
I can find arguments against almost all Christian churches for some of their quirks anything from snake handlimg, to demanding manifestation of spiritual gifts as proof of salvation, to foot washing, to praying through departed from this world persons, to saying that only the poorly translated and hard to read King James Bible is GOD's true Bible.
Some forget a passage in the Bible. Our Lord was approached by his Disciples about others preaching about Him and casting out demons and healing the sick in His name. They said do you want us to stop them? His reply was in Mark ch 9 v 38
38John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw a man using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn’t one of our group.” 39“Don’t stop him!” Jesus said. “No one who performs miracles in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me. 40Anyone who is not against us is for us. 41If anyone gives you even a cup of water because you belong to the Messiah, I assure you, that person will be rewarded.
Christ condemned one thing more than anything else and that was hypocrisies of the leaders. He didn't seem to worry so much about an earnest and rightious mans beliefs or faith as it is Faith that matters not rituals and not church dogma and doctorines. It was the persons heart toward GOD he saw and judged. All churches and all people have sinned and fall short.
Ah, I see, only fun when unopposed. Run away, run away then Rip. Heaven forbid you discuss RELIGION.
Controlling far right wing group theocratically is almost like fire and gasoline.
I see absolutely no value in rising to your bait, or anyone else’s. Do what you will.
mormonism is challenged on the basis of its beliefs - both those publicly expressed as well as that which they try to keep under cover (aka the "meat"). In the middle of the article's title are the words Mormon Prophecies - indicating a component of the mormon religion can and should be evaluated. Is the prophecy valid - you leaders say NO, you rank and file are mixed. Should we not be concerned when an individual seeks political power on the basis of an unrecognized 'prophecy'? Should the factuality of other aspects of mormonism be examined to evaluate what else could be expected by Americans when mormon religious beliefs take priority over other things? Many mormons here tend to be less than full disclosure when it comes to the less 'popular' aspects of their religion - and it is these aspects when it comes to governing that need to be exposed. Especially from a religion for nearly 100 years had an oath in the endowment which required members to swear vengeance "upon this nation."
If you feel so inclined, ask the mods to move it to the religion forum so you can do what you like to do unbridled.
Not necessary IMHO, here in chat is just fine. But you probably wouldn’t follow it there either - so here we are :)
Which ones were not Christians and which ones would not have been allowed in our current Christian churches? You think that current America is more Christian than our founding fathers, and presumably the Americans that they served?
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