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A black future
ScienceNews ^ | 12/19/09 | Tom Siegfried

Posted on 12/05/2009 4:26:01 PM PST by KevinDavis

Shortly after the first of the year (if not already), the Large Hadron Collider — the most powerful particle accelerator ever built — will smash protons together at record energies. If the Earth remains intact, doomsayers will once again have been falsified. Every time they forecast the demise of the planet, those prophets of Earthly annihilation prove themselves no more foresightful than mortgage bankers or phony psychics.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencenews.org ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Miscellaneous; Science
KEYWORDS: cosmology; lhc; particleaccelerator; physicalcosmology; physics; quantumphysics; quantunsingularity; science; space; stringtheory; theoreticalphysics
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We should have never shutdown the one in Texas...
1 posted on 12/05/2009 4:26:02 PM PST by KevinDavis
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To: The SISU kid; Empireoftheatom48; Rio; Iowan; hattend; reader25; july4thfreedomfoundation; ...


For other space news go to: http://www.spacetoday.net
For a list of Private Space Companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_spaceflight_companies


2 posted on 12/05/2009 4:27:01 PM PST by KevinDavis (Can't Stop the Signal!)
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To: KevinDavis

We should have never shutdown the one in Texas...

Clinton did that in Waxahatchi when it was half built-stupid decision, another stupid decision.


3 posted on 12/05/2009 4:33:10 PM PST by Cordio
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To: KevinDavis
We should have never shutdown the one in Texas...

Mostly because if it had created a mini black hole that destroyed 10,000 square miles of Texas, no one would have noticed. :)

4 posted on 12/05/2009 4:36:02 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("If you cannot pick it up and run with it, you don't really own it." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: KevinDavis

I guess if or when they produce a black hole or another big bang it should take just a blink of the eye and we will all be toast.


5 posted on 12/05/2009 4:36:43 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Romak 7.62X54MM, AK47 7.62X39MM, LARGO 9X23MM, HAPINESS IS A WARM GUN BANG BANG YEA YEA)
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To: KevinDavis

The LHC can supposedly produce collisions with energy of around 7x10^12 eV. The hightest ultra-high energy cosmic rays, however, are around 3x10^20 eV. That gives cosmic rays, which have been hitting the earth for billions of years, about 40 billion times the energy that the LHC can produce. So far, no earth-gobbling black holes. Another thing, collisions at very near the speed of light produce secondary particles also travelling near the speed of light. So any black holes created as a result would fly through the earth and into space in less than a second. Thirdly, there Hawking radiation. A black hole of such low mass would evaporate in a nano-second at most.


6 posted on 12/05/2009 4:39:07 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

That would be 40 million I mean.


7 posted on 12/05/2009 4:41:55 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

Theorhetically mini black holes are produced naturally all the time but they dissipate in nanoseconds. As I understand it, black holes require a certain ammount of mass for them to be sustained.


8 posted on 12/05/2009 4:44:10 PM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: KevinDavis

Another example of science playing around with nature and not knowing the after effects.


9 posted on 12/05/2009 4:44:32 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: cripplecreek
black holes require a certain ammount of mass for them to be sustained.

Yeah, but is that mass a rock, a planet, or does it require a whole galaxy? It's important to know these things.

10 posted on 12/05/2009 4:47:29 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: KevinDavis

Who knows? It may open a doorway to a parallel universe.


11 posted on 12/05/2009 4:48:16 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove

That’s science and its how we ended up with nuclear reactors.


12 posted on 12/05/2009 4:48:57 PM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: cripplecreek

That’s because of Hawking radiation. The smaller a black hole is, the quicker it evaporates. The rate of evaporation becomes exponential with mass loss, and anything lighter than about a mountain will not gain further mass because the radiation pressure will exceed its gravity. But at that point, it won’t last long anyway. Hawking theorized all this using generally-accepted physics.


13 posted on 12/05/2009 4:49:07 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: cripplecreek

We need to be very careful when dealing with the fundemental forces of the universe.


14 posted on 12/05/2009 4:50:13 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

Thanx.

Nice clear explanation.


15 posted on 12/05/2009 4:54:24 PM PST by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: cripplecreek

We need to calculate whether any “side effects” may happen during these experiements.


16 posted on 12/05/2009 4:55:25 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: KevinDavis

Look at the bright side - the collider may save us from global warming!


17 posted on 12/05/2009 4:58:47 PM PST by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: sonofstrangelove

If it opens a door to another universe, it solves all our problems...just send all liberals and democrats there. But we better know how to shut that doorway first..or they will just stream back in, without taxes to pay for their pet projects they’d be toast as a total population..


18 posted on 12/05/2009 5:05:20 PM PST by goat granny
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To: goat granny

Well, we would need to find a parallel Earth where life never took hold to stick them there.


19 posted on 12/05/2009 5:07:03 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

How unusual. A little wisdom on a science thread for a change.

Thank you very much.


20 posted on 12/05/2009 7:56:10 PM PST by onedoug
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To: guitarplayer1953
Doesn't it seem a little early - considering our level of knowledge - to be doing these kinds of experiments? I have a relative who taught college physics some years back - and with some of the early runs he didn't know for sure if we'd exist after the experiment. Maybe he was kidding... didn't seem like it.
21 posted on 12/05/2009 8:10:14 PM PST by GOPJ (Has Tiger EVER had an affair with a black woman?)
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To: GOPJ

I think that wee need to think things through before tampering with the fundemental forces of the universe. Any mistake can have far reaching destruction.


22 posted on 12/05/2009 11:43:38 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: KevinDavis

If the doomsayers are serious about shutting the project down then it is time they altered their approach. All they need do is pay off some scientists at that CRU place to produce data indicating that the facility emits as much carbon as one of Al Gore’motorcades and then the good folks meeting in Copenhagen can legislate it out of existence.


23 posted on 12/06/2009 5:28:44 AM PST by TheVitaminPress (as goes the Second Amendment . . . so goes the Constitution.)
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To: KevinDavis
What is really scary is that the LHC is being run by a bunch of arrogant euro-weenies. The same type of juveniles doing climate “research”.
24 posted on 12/06/2009 8:02:51 AM PST by LiberConservative ("There's plenty of room for all Alaska's animals - right next to the mashed potatoes." -Sarah Palin)
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To: AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; Las Vegas Dave; ...
Thanks KevinDavis.

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25 posted on 12/06/2009 1:15:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: beethovenfan; SunkenCiv
Look at the bright side - the collider may save us from global warming!

When our sun uses up it's fuel billions of years from now, it will expand and the diameter of the sun will exceed the orbit of the Earth.

Now that's what I call GLOBAL WARMING!!

26 posted on 12/06/2009 4:09:07 PM PST by Las Vegas Dave (To anger a Conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a Liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Telepathic Intruder
Hawking radiation, the fail-safe. Has it been proven? Or is it still theory.
27 posted on 12/06/2009 4:27:27 PM PST by allmost
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To: sonofstrangelove
Before I make any judgment on the risks involved in this undertaking and the integrity of the decisions made to support the experiment, I would have to ask each of the principal scientists one compund question:
"Is there a serious global warming issue...and, if so, is it man-made?"

28 posted on 12/06/2009 6:21:10 PM PST by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: allmost

The existence of Hawking radiation has never been observed. In June 2008, NASA launched the GLAST satellite, which will search for the terminal gamma-ray flashes expected from evaporating primordial black holes.


29 posted on 12/06/2009 6:25:38 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove

The fail safe is entirely theoretical as well...


30 posted on 12/06/2009 6:27:19 PM PST by allmost
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To: allmost

They must be prepared for any contigency during these experiments including any “side effects” that may appear,especially if their goal is creating a mini black hole. I do not like this project because many things can go wrong.


31 posted on 12/06/2009 6:33:27 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove

A theoretical failsafe on a theoretical failsafe is not sound science.


32 posted on 12/06/2009 6:36:46 PM PST by allmost
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To: allmost

I totally agree


33 posted on 12/06/2009 6:37:59 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: allmost

Not exactly proven, but neither are black holes. Although there is observational evidence for them, unlike Hawking radiation. The problem is that with any black hole we may discover, the Hawking radiation would be so feeble that even the cosmic microwave background would dwarf it by a huge factor. But nevertheless, the first two reasons in my original post serves to make this particular fail-safe just a redundancy.


34 posted on 12/06/2009 9:37:07 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

Dependant on Hawking radiation. The best guess placed on the best guess, placed on the best guess. Doesn’t instill a lot of confidence here.


35 posted on 12/06/2009 9:47:39 PM PST by allmost
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To: allmost

Hawking himself isn’t completely sure of his theory , but it’s also based on things that have since been proven to exist in laboratories, such as vacuum energy. Namely by way of the Casimir effect. Proving Hawking radiation, however, would be a lot more difficult; beyond our means in fact. It does make sense, however, they way I understand it.


36 posted on 12/06/2009 10:14:59 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: KevinDavis

High temperature superconductive wire, advanced magnet and computer control technology was not available at the time the Texas Super-Conductor Collider (SSC) was being built early 1990s. Using the technology available at the time would have created a very expensive, under-performing “white elephant.” Congress pitted it against the then U.S. Space Station Freedom. The space station barely survived by a single vote. Not enough pork spread around the country on the SSC to keep it alive. All in all, the proper choice was to shut down the SCC before the larger costs were incurred.


37 posted on 12/06/2009 10:24:04 PM PST by anymouse (God didn't write this sitcom we call life, he's just the critic.)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

The Casimir Effect and Hawking radiation are distinct IMO.


38 posted on 12/06/2009 10:26:30 PM PST by allmost
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To: allmost

or maybe not...


39 posted on 12/06/2009 10:28:31 PM PST by allmost
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To: Telepathic Intruder
Not exactly proven, but neither are black holes

Black Holes have been proven.In 2002, the Hubble Space Telescope produced observations indicating that globular clusters named M15 and G1 may contain intermediate-mass black holes.
40 posted on 12/06/2009 10:34:35 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove; Salamander; Markos33; Slings and Arrows
"Who knows? It may open a doorway to a parallel universe."



Not to worry, Kirk will save us ..... (right after the pregnant pause, with angst.)

41 posted on 12/06/2009 10:38:34 PM PST by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: shibumi

I think parallel worlds(Earths) are a reality. The problem is getting there and getting back home.


42 posted on 12/06/2009 10:39:41 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove

Similar observations are unequivocale, looks good.


43 posted on 12/06/2009 10:42:17 PM PST by allmost
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To: sonofstrangelove

All that can be, is.


44 posted on 12/06/2009 10:42:24 PM PST by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: sonofstrangelove
With every part, down to the smallest having all the characteristics of the whole.....


45 posted on 12/06/2009 10:47:14 PM PST by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: allmost
One method is to use gravitational lensing. When you pass a star or galaxy in front of a black hole ,it distorts the image of a galaxy or star in the background.
46 posted on 12/06/2009 10:48:09 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove
Although there is observational evidence for them

I believe I mentioned that.
47 posted on 12/06/2009 10:48:10 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

Didn’t see that.


48 posted on 12/06/2009 10:49:06 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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To: sonofstrangelove

Cool GIF. No proof there though... :)


49 posted on 12/06/2009 10:51:08 PM PST by allmost
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To: allmost

There is enough by the HST to prove once and for all they exist,including one at the center of our galaxy.


50 posted on 12/06/2009 10:52:33 PM PST by ErnstStavroBlofeld ("We will either find a way, or make one."Hannibal/Carthaginian Military Commander)
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