A black future

ScienceNews ^ | 12/19/09 | Tom Siegfried

[KevinDavis]

Shortly after the first of the year (if not already), the Large Hadron Collider — the most powerful particle accelerator ever built — will smash protons together at record energies. If the Earth remains intact, doomsayers will once again have been falsified. Every time they forecast the demise of the planet, those prophets of Earthly annihilation prove themselves no more foresightful than mortgage bankers or phony psychics.

[KevinDavis]

We should have never shutdown the one in Texas...

[KevinDavis]

For other space news go to: http://www.spacetoday.net
For a list of Private Space Companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_spaceflight_companies

[Cordio]

We should have never shutdown the one in Texas...

Clinton did that in Waxahatchi when it was half built-stupid decision, another stupid decision.

[Mr. Jeeves]

We should have never shutdown the one in Texas...

Mostly because if it had created a mini black hole that destroyed 10,000 square miles of Texas, no one would have noticed. :)

[guitarplayer1953]

I guess if or when they produce a black hole or another big bang it should take just a blink of the eye and we will all be toast.

[Telepathic Intruder]

The LHC can supposedly produce collisions with energy of around 7x10^12 eV. The hightest ultra-high energy cosmic rays, however, are around 3x10^20 eV. That gives cosmic rays, which have been hitting the earth for billions of years, about 40 billion times the energy that the LHC can produce. So far, no earth-gobbling black holes. Another thing, collisions at very near the speed of light produce secondary particles also travelling near the speed of light. So any black holes created as a result would fly through the earth and into space in less than a second. Thirdly, there Hawking radiation. A black hole of such low mass would evaporate in a nano-second at most.

[Telepathic Intruder]

That would be 40 million I mean.

[cripplecreek]

Theorhetically mini black holes are produced naturally all the time but they dissipate in nanoseconds. As I understand it, black holes require a certain ammount of mass for them to be sustained.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Another example of science playing around with nature and not knowing the after effects.

[UCANSEE2]

black holes require a certain ammount of mass for them to be sustained.

Yeah, but is that mass a rock, a planet, or does it require a whole galaxy? It's important to know these things.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Who knows? It may open a doorway to a parallel universe.

[cripplecreek]

That’s science and its how we ended up with nuclear reactors.

[Telepathic Intruder]

That’s because of Hawking radiation. The smaller a black hole is, the quicker it evaporates. The rate of evaporation becomes exponential with mass loss, and anything lighter than about a mountain will not gain further mass because the radiation pressure will exceed its gravity. But at that point, it won’t last long anyway. Hawking theorized all this using generally-accepted physics.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

We need to be very careful when dealing with the fundemental forces of the universe.

[cripplecreek]

Thanx.

Nice clear explanation.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

We need to calculate whether any “side effects” may happen during these experiements.

[beethovenfan]

Look at the bright side - the collider may save us from global warming!

[goat granny]

If it opens a door to another universe, it solves all our problems...just send all liberals and democrats there. But we better know how to shut that doorway first..or they will just stream back in, without taxes to pay for their pet projects they’d be toast as a total population..

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Well, we would need to find a parallel Earth where life never took hold to stick them there.

[onedoug]

How unusual. A little wisdom on a science thread for a change.

Thank you very much.

[GOPJ]

Doesn't it seem a little early - considering our level of knowledge - to be doing these kinds of experiments? I have a relative who taught college physics some years back - and with some of the early runs he didn't know for sure if we'd exist after the experiment. Maybe he was kidding... didn't seem like it.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

I think that wee need to think things through before tampering with the fundemental forces of the universe. Any mistake can have far reaching destruction.

[TheVitaminPress]

If the doomsayers are serious about shutting the project down then it is time they altered their approach. All they need do is pay off some scientists at that CRU place to produce data indicating that the facility emits as much carbon as one of Al Gore’motorcades and then the good folks meeting in Copenhagen can legislate it out of existence.

[LiberConservative]

What is really scary is that the LHC is being run by a bunch of arrogant euro-weenies. The same type of juveniles doing climate “research”.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks KevinDavis.

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[Las Vegas Dave]

Look at the bright side - the collider may save us from global warming!

When our sun uses up it's fuel billions of years from now, it will expand and the diameter of the sun will exceed the orbit of the Earth.

Now that's what I call GLOBAL WARMING!!

[allmost]

Hawking radiation, the fail-safe. Has it been proven? Or is it still theory.

[SuperLuminal]

Before I make any judgment on the risks involved in this undertaking and the integrity of the decisions made to support the experiment, I would have to ask each of the principal scientists one compund question:
"Is there a serious global warming issue...and, if so, is it man-made?"

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

The existence of Hawking radiation has never been observed. In June 2008, NASA launched the GLAST satellite, which will search for the terminal gamma-ray flashes expected from evaporating primordial black holes.

[allmost]

The fail safe is entirely theoretical as well...

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

They must be prepared for any contigency during these experiments including any “side effects” that may appear,especially if their goal is creating a mini black hole. I do not like this project because many things can go wrong.

[allmost]

A theoretical failsafe on a theoretical failsafe is not sound science.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

I totally agree

[Telepathic Intruder]

Not exactly proven, but neither are black holes. Although there is observational evidence for them, unlike Hawking radiation. The problem is that with any black hole we may discover, the Hawking radiation would be so feeble that even the cosmic microwave background would dwarf it by a huge factor. But nevertheless, the first two reasons in my original post serves to make this particular fail-safe just a redundancy.

[allmost]

Dependant on Hawking radiation. The best guess placed on the best guess, placed on the best guess. Doesn’t instill a lot of confidence here.

[Telepathic Intruder]

Hawking himself isn’t completely sure of his theory , but it’s also based on things that have since been proven to exist in laboratories, such as vacuum energy. Namely by way of the Casimir effect. Proving Hawking radiation, however, would be a lot more difficult; beyond our means in fact. It does make sense, however, they way I understand it.

[anymouse]

High temperature superconductive wire, advanced magnet and computer control technology was not available at the time the Texas Super-Conductor Collider (SSC) was being built early 1990s. Using the technology available at the time would have created a very expensive, under-performing “white elephant.” Congress pitted it against the then U.S. Space Station Freedom. The space station barely survived by a single vote. Not enough pork spread around the country on the SSC to keep it alive. All in all, the proper choice was to shut down the SCC before the larger costs were incurred.

[allmost]

The Casimir Effect and Hawking radiation are distinct IMO.

[allmost]

or maybe not...

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Not exactly proven, but neither are black holes

Black Holes have been proven.In 2002, the Hubble Space Telescope produced observations indicating that globular clusters named M15 and G1 may contain intermediate-mass black holes.

[shibumi]

"Who knows? It may open a doorway to a parallel universe."

Not to worry, Kirk will save us ..... (right after the pregnant pause, with angst.)

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

I think parallel worlds(Earths) are a reality. The problem is getting there and getting back home.

[allmost]

Similar observations are unequivocale, looks good.

[shibumi]

All that can be, is.

[shibumi]

With every part, down to the smallest having all the characteristics of the whole.....

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

One method is to use gravitational lensing. When you pass a star or galaxy in front of a black hole ,it distorts the image of a galaxy or star in the background.

[Telepathic Intruder]

Although there is observational evidence for them

I believe I mentioned that.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

Didn’t see that.

[allmost]

Cool GIF. No proof there though... :)

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

There is enough by the HST to prove once and for all they exist,including one at the center of our galaxy.