Posted on 09/22/2009 12:54:01 PM PDT by philled
I no longer hunt often- usually pheasant a few times a year and a day or two of spring turkey, if I'm lucky. Accordingly, I'm down to two shotguns- a Remington 870 Wingmaster I've had forever and a camo Benelli Nova.
I've been shooting sporting clays and trap sporadically over the summer and enjoy it. I use my 870 as I've literally shot it for half of my life. I'd like to shoot trap on a regular basis with the thought of joining a league next year.
I'm looking for recommendations for an entry-level trap gun. I'd like to spend less than $900 and would appreciate any input. Thank you.
how do you like the Nova? i own one but have yet to shoot it.
I would recommend a double-barrel (I prefer a side-by-side rather than over/under). The good thing about the double barrel is that usually one barrel is a tighter choke (for example right barrel modified and left barrel full choke) so you can use the right barrel for the closer shots or the ones coming toward you, and use the left barrel for the shots further out - like the second shot on a double.
I shot skeet and trap for a long time with a Remington 1100, until I had the opportunity to buy a friend's over/under. It was like night and day: the O/U had a much better balance.
However, a double-barrel has one disadvantage: it's more expensive (if even posssible) to swap barrels to meet the specific situation.
To help buy that double, make sure you get a shot shell re-loader. It’s fun and saves wheelbarrow loads of dollars.
To help buy that double, make sure you get a shot shell re-loader. It’s fun and saves wheelbarrow loads of dollars.
Well, a Browning Citori is not an entry level gun but it sure is fine! Love mine.
Most important thing is to be sure the gun (whatever you choose) is fitted properly. I would begin here: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=96
If you’re shooting incommers on a trap field, you’re doing it wrong! :)
Get an old Winchester ‘97 and bend the barrel up. Worked for me, outshot a guy with a Ljutic once at handicap.
Coming toward you - in Trap?
I go with my standard and forever advice:
Use what's most comfortable for you.
Especially if you are used to shooting breaking birds in the field.
I still went back to my Mossberg 500 frequently when I was shooting a lot.
Good point. I was getting my skeet and trap mixed up. The principle is still the same for any double though. The first clay you shoot is going to be much closer than the second one, so you want to use the modified barrel first and the full choke barrel second.
I have a Winchester 101 double that I used quite a bit when I was in a trap league some years ago. Very affordable shotgun and made to last.
Here’s one at the top end of your price point on Gunbroker. I don’t know if it’s a good deal or not, but you can check it out.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140472241
Mod and full sound a bit tight except for trap doubles. Skeet doubles, you shoot the outgoing bird first, but both are at ranges where a skeet choke will suffice for either. Sporting clays? Depends on the course, some delight in setting up devilish pairs.
I love my Mossberg 500. I also like my Stevens 311 double-barrel. My granddad’s Stevens auto-loader is also very good; the last time I took it out to shoot clays at the farm, it actually worked best for me in terms of easy accuracy, but it is quite old and I’ve had trouble with it jamming. It needs a visit to the gunsmith.
That is a good deal.
The gun I shoot most is a 101 in .410 at skeet. About 5000 rounds a year.
It might be improved cylinder and modified rather than modified and full. I just know that the left barrel is definitely tighter than the right barrel (on my 311).
IC and Mod is the typical upland choking, particularly in 16 gauge guns. The 311, and excellent gun, is more likely to be the mod and full combo. If a gun works for me, I don’t ask too many questions...
You should check with your local ranges for good slightly used guns (most of them have bulletin boards). I have noticed that in the past few years a lot of wealthy businessmen, doctors and lawyers went shooting once and loved it. So they went out and bought really nice shotguns and used them once or twice. Now they’re looking to get rid of them.
My brother-in-law got a basically new Browning Cynergy for right around $1000 about a year ago.
lol....sweet.
The cheapie 500 can be, also cheaply, configured to any use you have for it. Since they are so commonplace you are apt to have shot it a lot and gotten used to the feel and swing. That's a good sign that it'll serve well as an "entry level" trap, or skeet, gun.
(Confession #2: I shot an old Baker single a whole lot when I was into trap.)
I disagree, that sounds like it would be an awesome sport.
Just put a little hill out in front of you with a launcher hidden behind it. I know I’d be interested.
My 311 is a 20 gauge, that my dad bought for me for Christmas about 35 years ago. It was my first shotgun and I still like it. My granddad had a 12 gauge Savage/Stevens semi-auto (I’m not sure of the model number) that became mine when he passed away. It is a good gun, that is really easy to shoot, but it needs gunsmith work. My Mossberg 500 was a special deal I bought from a cop that worked security at the bank where I worked 20+ years ago. It has a 20” barrel and a pistol grip, which is great for home defense and not very good for trap shooting; it also has an interchangeable 28” barrel and wood stock which makes it a very serviceable gun for bird hunting and trap shooting.
I’ve done well with the Remington 870. Interchangeable barrels and chokes, bought original wood for the 870 TC (the fore-end extends back to the receiver like an autoloader), magazine weights to shift balance forward, etc.
Then, too, like the Mossberg 500, you can dress it for combat. Very versatile gun.
I’d just get a longer(trap) barrel and an adjustable stock for the 870 and call it good. There’s nothing wrong with an 870 for singles trap at least. If you want to reduce the recoil, you might consider checking Gunbroker or Gunsamerica for a Remington 1100 Trap gun or similar. If your budget were higher (1500 or so), then you can go looking for a good O/U trap gun. I’d be leery of anything in double barrels for less than 1000 bucks (new) too many of the cheaper guns have bad reps for mechanical problems.
I like the Nova quite a bit. It wasn’t expensive and seems very durable. I wanted camo for turkey. Unfortunately, it really doesn’t much use but I think it’d be a fine all-around gun.
My wife would surely notice if I brought that one home! Also, a couple posters have recommended getting into reloading. Would I have trouble (legally) getting supplies for it?
But first, you should decide if you want a traditional O/U (or side-by-side) or a semiautomatic. Pluses/minuses to each. Your choice. I like both, but always seem to come back to my O/U.
Spend some time at a range rather than a gun store and see if they have any “club guns” you can try. Or if you let the local shooters know what you are looking for, they may let you try one of theirs (I have on several occasions, and most Clayshooters are pretty open about that sort of thing as long as you buy the shells). The problem with that is that trap-specific guns tend to be very personalized in terms of fit, so they probably won't want to let you shoot something that is fitted to a particular shooter (it wouldn't do you any good anyway).
Anyway, that raises another point: custom fit. Dedicated trap guns are very specialized, and are usually pretty hard to shoot the other events with. All of the "serious" Trapshooters I know have guns they shoot only trap with, and then guns they shoot everything else with (like you, I started on an ancient 870, and it worked fine - in fact there was some gratification in shooting with the $15-20K gun "big boys" with a 30 year old 870 that cost me $175.00 new - but that does wear off and the inner gear-junkie will probably overwhelm you sooner or later).
At any rate, you may be best served getting a more "universal" shotgun. If you want a brand spanking new gun within your budget, look at one of the New Winchester O/U’s or semis or maybe one of the new CZ's (those Czechs have been making good guns for a long time), or a new 1100 (as heavy, but as reliable as your father's Oldsmobile), or the new 105Cti from Remington, or a Benelli A390/A391 for a reasonable price, and you can use it for any clay sport. Plus, you can take it to the field when you get tired of dusting clays and just have to hit something with feathers and not worry about knocking any of the "pretty-shiny off" of your gun.
Don't buy one of the $500 Russian or Spanish or Turkish O/U's - you'll be screaming and flinging it into the woods in a month.
For a used gun in your budget, there are plenty of choices. Just look around. Clays junkies love to wheel and deal. So develop a relationship with a local range, and get to know some folks. They may very well lead you to a great deal (worked for me - in spades!). Plus, aside from a curmudgeon or twenty, they're generally pretty good people.
If you're looking for something a bit different, Ruger has some very nice O/U’s (Red Label), and if you like stainless (I know it's nontraditional, but nice sometimes/places), no one on earth makes better a stainless gun than they do. You should be able to find a used one in your range.
Whatever you get, don't get a "fixed-choke" barrel(s). Get something with interchangeable choke tubes, which should come with a pretty selection of the basic ones. Get a good selection of the remaining patterns, you'll need them sooner or later. You won't really need them for trap (mod/light mod will work fine for trap), but they are indispensable for sporting clays.
Just my $.02
Welcome to your new addiction.
Thanks to all for your input. At lunch, I ran and took a quick look. I was intrigued by the Mossberg Silver Reserve o/u for $550 but will probably keep looking. It just seemed that “Trap” guns started at about $1000.
There are 3 trap events; Singles (shooting from the 16 yd line), Doubles (shooting two simultaneous birds with two shots) and Handicap (shooting farther back, 19 to 27 yards). If you only want to shoot singles and caps (handicap) then a single barrel gun is fine. If you are shooting doubles then you need an over/under double barrel gun or a semi-auto. Don't get a side-by-side they do not shoot as straight or as soft. You might consider a semi-auto; I'd recommend a Beretta 391 Trap if you go that route. The difference between the trap model and the field model (in any gun) is the trap model intentionally shoots high where the field gun will shoot flat. (The reason you want your trap gun to shoot high is so the bead does not cover the bird when you are shooting it - you can't hit what you can't see). For a little more money you can get an adjustable comb and butt-plate so you can fit the stock to your dimensions and set it up to shoot where you like.
You will likely grow tired of the semi-auto quickly if you stick with the sport, especially if you shoot doubles. You'll actually feel the mechanism work as you are swinging the gun to the second bird and it will feel slow to you. But a 391 is a great gun for under $1600, you can get a used one for around $1000 anywhere. Remington 1100 is the classic trap gun but I have never owned one. (We have had 3 Beretta 391's though, all great).
For break-apart type guns there is a single or double barrel.
Single is perfect for singles and caps but will not work for doubles. For trap a 34" barrel is "normal" for a full size guy and many women. It's a long barrel and many find it hard to swing. My son is 13 and handles it fine. Other common sizes are 30" and 28". The longer and heavier the barrel is the smoother it swings; but the penalty is it takes more strength to move it.
Double barrel trap guns are generally 32" long. There are some 34's but it takes a hoss to swing it effectively. 30" is also very common.
You can also get a combo. It is a break-apart that comes with a single and a double for the same receiver. I like that option if you can spend the money. For an entry break-apart I would recommend an SKB 85TSS (the new model is 85TTR but the only difference is the width of the rib - I like the wider rib on the older model better and you can still get the TSS's new in the box for much less money). The 85TSS 32" double (you can use it for singles too) runs about $2300. The 34/32 combo is about $2800.
OR - go nuts and buy a Kreigoff K-80 combo with upgraded wood and custom engraved receiver for a little over $30K.
The bottom line is the best gun for you is the one that shoots where you are looking.
A big difference between the field guns and the trap guns is the robustness and weight. A hunter might put 5-10 boxes of shell through his gun in a year. Those guns are made lighter (so they can be carried in the field) but are not expected to have as much use. My kid shoots 10-15 boxes of shells per week. He ran about 22,000 targets (9500 registered ATA) since April. A high-end Kriegoff or Perazzi will easily run a million rounds in it's lifetime with regular servicing. The SKB will be much less but for much less money.
Hope this helps!
Dunno about supplies ... but I think if you did your own loading you'd probably end up spending 10 weeks getting ready for a 10-second burst.
The Silver Reserve Mossbergs aren’t bad, but they are a little heavy and not the best balance. I had forgotten about those. The “problem guns” i’ve heard about in the low-price double category mostly are the CZ and similar Turkish-made guns.
Thank you for the informative posts. I knew that FR was going to be helpful! Didn’t occur to me that the sighting would be different on trap guns and it makes sense that they are built to push more rounds through. I’ve never had one but o/us have always appealed to me. I noticed that the Mossberg Silver Reserve is made in Turkey. I won a gun raffle the other night at a NWTF event so it turns out that I have $400 in credit at a local gunshop. That’s half of my budget right there!
If you like the break apart type, I am pretty sure you can pick up a used Citori in your budget if your gunshop has one. The XT (Browning) is very nice too but more money. Like the other poster said - stay away from anything made in Eastern Europe. The price is very attractive but they don't hold up at all. On the other hand, an SKB (formerly Ithaca, now made in Japan) 32" over/under would be great (maybe a little lucky) if you can find a used one for $1000 or less. Even if it is a straight field stock, it would be worth it.
You can have an adjustable comb added later for under $200 if you want to raise the pattern up a bit. Similarly, if the recoil bothers you after shooting a lot you can also add an adjustable butt-plate with a recoil dampener. Gracoil makes them and your local smith can install it. The mechanism and the install is usually about $300.
The advantage to buying used is you should be able to shoot it before you buy. If you don't like the way it fits or shoots you haven't committed anything. Of course if you try out an expensive gun just for the heck of it you'll probably get into trouble with the accountant/wife.
Another poster said to only look at guns with choke tubes (no fixed chokes), he is right.
Let me know what you find and end up with. Don't sweat buying the wrong gun too much. It happens, you can always trade it for something else.
SKB or Sakaba, has always been a Japanese company. They have made guns for Ithaca and Weatherby, aw well as under their own name. Probably the strongest O/U for high volume shooting due to the Greener style crossbolt until you go up to the K-guns. I've got one in 28, and it's a sweet shooter.
Thanks for your help. Is there anything I should look for as a problem? I only know how to take mine apart and clean them. Ince my 870 wasn’t ejecting right and I took it in and they fixed it. unless one in the shop has a Post-It note stuck on it saying “this is worn out / broken” I wouldn’t have a clue what should raise an alarm.
My kid shoots the SKB 32" O/U. Only issue is S-K-B = Springs Keep Breaking. But they always fix them under warranty.
Haven’t heard of that problem. A guy I shoot with has one of the SKB skeet guns and hasn’t had a problem for the decade or so he’s owned it. Probably a 5000 shot a year shooter.
That $400 credit will definitely help!
But I like your thinkin :)
Also; the latch lever should be in the center or a bit to the right when the gun is closed. If it is off to the left, it is worn and needs a part replaced. It's not a big deal to replace the bar but it's an indication that the gun has seen a lot of rounds.
Cosmetic nicks and dings are normal in a used stock and don't effect the performance but does effect the resale value. Similarly, voids in the bluing is normal but dings in the barrel could be serious. Break the gun down and inspect the inside of the barrels. There should be little visible difference from a new gun.
Go ahead and spend the $20 to have a new Kick-Eze recoil pad installed. Keep the old one because at resale time many buyers like original parts.
Nice GUN. As with all Brownings, a model of simplicity of design and function. Easy to break down and clean. Had a friend with Beretta auto, that I fully cleaned for him "once". Uggg, typical European design. Over engineered IMHO and a PITA to clean.
I also bought new, a Browning Citori XS O/U. Nice, very nice. But the price tag added a cool grand over what I paid for the auto.
I like them both, shoot them both. It depends on my mood, the course. The auto has a lighter kick, and a nice feature of when you go to load the mag (with the bolt locked open), it auto cycles the first round into the chamber.
It has the disadvantage of only allowing for a single choke on the doubles stations. Still with the knurled extend chokes, they change easily. Although I know this guy that teaches the art of the Shotgun; Browning gives him guns to use, and Winchester gives him flats of Super Sports; can blast through a 10 station w/out a choke change, and hit 99 or 100 targets. I think I saw him shoot a 98 once.
Pick the one that works best for you. It's not like hunting. After a ten station the shoulder can get a tad sore with the over under. A recoil pad helps.
Thanks again for all your help. I think I’ll take my time (its soon upland season and then months of snow/cold) and just keep tabs on what the shop gets in for used guns. Any magazines I should check out? I get American Rifleman but that’s it.
No problem. Glad to offer whatever insights I can. Does you Clay/Skeet/Trap range offer rental guns? Mine does, the ones they have on consignment, or are selling (used) outright. Well, except for the really nice ones. That would be a great way to try out several different makes and models. As for the mags, I only get Rifleman myself (Life Member). It’s not economically wise for me to maintain a lot of subscriptions right now.
If you get cabin fever around Feb or March head up my way. FL has a full shooting schedule almost all winter.
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