Posted on 08/22/2009 11:25:17 AM PDT by Enterprise
"The suit says the district violates the constitution in a variety of ways, including requiring students or their parents to pay fees in order to take part in curricular or extra-curricular activities in such areas as sports, cheerleading, band and choir."
(Excerpt) Read more at kmj580.com ...
Yeah, and I wonder WHO it is in Clovis that can’t afford the extra-curricular supplies.
That's pretty indisputable.
OK, Fine ... next year.. you can buy your own FOOTBALL EQUIPMENT, too.
What a lame lawsuit, I hope the judge throws it out.
So you feel that a child should be excluded from even CURRICULAR activities if the parents truly cannot pay the fees?
As an example, here in KY we pay school fees. This isn't for anything extracurricular, it's simply a straight up school fee. You can't do that in California.
Depending upon the actual wording involved, this lawsuit may fly.
**WHO it is in Clovis that can’t afford**
Someone who just paid all their TAXES???
I don’t know. Are the taxes high there? Does the school district have so many administrators it can’t afford football uniforms? Is there a Constitutional right to be a cheerleader or play the saxophone? Has the community been overrun with illegal aliens demanding to play in the marching band? Inquiring minds.
It would depend on the curricular activity and if it was required to graduate. Definitely to balance a budget, non essential activities can be cut back to the bone. Band, sports, cheerleading and the like, are desirable but not required.
I agree. Every child has a constitutional right to a free tuba.
If I was on the school board, I'd vote for a consent order in the lawsuit that would shut down the band, the sports programs, etc, and name the parents responsible.
Putting aside league participation, students should be able to participate in PE activities that involve these sports, but it is up to the student and/or parents to provide additional equipment if the student CHOOSES to participate in a league or extra curricular activities. If a student freely chooses to try out for a sport that involves additional equipment, why the heck should the school pay for it? Its not like they are being forced to play the sport, and like life, there is an entrance fee for some things. The kids, or parents could get a job (or a second job) to pay for these items. But to think they entitled to have it all handed to them is ridiculous.
If a kid (or parent) cannot afford golf clubs or lacrosse equipment, that does not disqualify them from participating in swimming or wrestling or running.
Agreed. However I have seen in my own district ( I am not in CA) kids that were given poor grades or actually held back for not participating in certain required activities due to the parents not being able to pay. In my own personal experience I failed Home Economics because my mother could not afford to buy materials for me to complete the projects I was required to do.
Band is not a required subject. I speciffically stated CURRICULAR activities.
True, almost. Back in the day, the University of California was not allowed to charge tuition. They got around it by charging "building use fees" and stdum use fees, etc. No child in grades K-12 was ever charged for books, or school supplies. We did bring our own pencils and notebooks, but the school supplied other kinds of paper.
It was a big surprise when I moved to TX and we were issued a "school supply list" which even included Kleenex. And then the teacher collected all that stuff the first day and handed it out to other children, as needed. The only fees I ever paid in High School in CA were laundry fees for the clean towels we were issued daily in gym.
This is gonna be spensive when drivers ed comes along......Porsce 911’s for all. It’s their RIGHT
That is not a curricular activity. I was speaking of curricular activities. You know the ones you HAVE to do and are graded on?
And the FASCIST SOCIALIST beast grows.
This nation will not be free with SOCIALISM as the foundation of our children’s youth.
That is the same procedure used by the private, Christian school that my children attend. If one of my children's classmates desperately needed something and the parents couldn't afford it, somehow, a paid-for one would be anonymously provided (shhh...don't tell). Actually, several of them from several different sources would probably be provided.
I don't know if this is just the district policy or a state requirement in Kansas but it really grinds my gears. A student who doesn't attend public school cannot become involved in public-school extra-curriculur activities even if additional fees are paid. But of course, I get to pay taxes to pay for all the public schools.
When I was in highschool eveybody took drives ed. At the time I don’t know if it was extra curricular. It was a class that all kids took. Mine was 2nd period but they had six different classes every day. I realise times have changed and now it is considered extra. My comment was more to the lawsuit were it is curricular or extra-curricular activities that they want for free not you.(-:
Well, my information comes from an ages old conversation with my mom who was involved with the school. Someone put forth the idea of asking for a minimal fee and they were quickly informed that it was illegal.
Here, we not only have school supply lists, we ALSO pay a fee. $20 for elementary, I think it's $30 something for middle school and nearly a hundred for high school.
Do you not know the difference between ‘curricular’ and ‘required’?
I can remember my parents sending us to school with glue, paper, pencils, crayons, paint and folders. Now the kindergarteners need 2-3 boxes of crayons, 12 glue sticks, 2 reams of copy paper, headphones 4 boxes of kleenex, hand sanitizer, wipes, ziploc bags, disposable cameras....I believe the higher grades (middle/high school) require those expensive graphing calculators, too. On top of all the supplies, they also have a uniform dress code so we end up having to buy an extra set of clothing for each child that they can only wear to school. When I was a kid, we had play clothes and the clothes we wore to school, church and other polite events. Not so now. My kids have their old play clothes, their school uniforms and when we can afford it...something they can wear that doesn't make them look like raggamuffins or uniformed drones. Extracurricular activities??? I haven't even thought that far, yet!
CURRICULAR ACTIVITY
Curricular activities are those activities which are integral to the classroom and result in a
course grade and credit.
REQUIRED:
1. Needed; essential: missing several required parts.
2. Obligatory: required reading.
Do you ever wonder what the ratio of school administrators to teachers is in your district?
The only way for this practice to stop is for parents to say
NO, especially in tough economic times.
I was in my local k-mart. They have the town’s school supply list available so parents can pick it up and start shopping. The items were suggested, not required. I can’t imagine school officials in my town requiring parents to do much of anything in the way of school supplies.
Most schools require a "fine arts" credit which is band or choir or theater. So, yes, the student is required to come up with $. My beef is schools bend over backwards for the football team but the band is left to fend for itself. I just got through forking over about a $100 for uniform stuff and there will be more bs throughout the year. Two years ago, I told Junior he had his choice of a car or a quality instrument. He chose the instrument. Turns out the car would have been cheaper but the car wouldn't have allowed him to advance in any competition past anything local. Other schools provide good instruments but not ours. Of course now that he's #2 in the state, the band director gets bragging rights and the school gets brownie points but I'm still making payments.
OK, thanks. Now that you’ve confirmed that you don’t know what you are talking about, we can have a basis for a discussion. You are right on the curricular, but seem to be at loss on the ‘required’.
State law will establish how many classes a student must have to graduate. Some of those classes will be required, the rest may be made up of electives. Thus a class can be curricular, but not required.
It appears that NMex requires the following:
Total 24 credits including
4 years:
English
Math
3 years
Social Studies
Lab Science
So obviously, close to half of the courses needed for graduation are curricular, but not required.
Now, if they are charging for the required courses, that would be different than charging for an elective course, if another, free, elective was offered.
The thing is, our kids' school is a Chapter 1 school (I always get that mixed up with Chapter 13 lol) and most of the students are from low income families and get reduced or free lunches and free preschool services. Fortunately, we don't qualify. I know the reason I have to send in 12 glue sticks...no one else is sending them in! The reams of copy paper (sometimes up to $4 each) are required because the schools don't provide the teachers with copy paper.
Did I also mention that the school lunch is now almost $2 per day for elementary kids? If both of my kids ate lunch every day at school, we'd be paying $20/week for my two and thecrappy food that isn't even healthy when you measure the fat and sugar content.
When I was in high school...we paid $1.10 and when I was in elementary, it was .40 - .60 per day.
If they need it to graduate then it is required.
I cannot understand why the schools don’t supply the teachers with something as basic as copypaper. That’s the least they can do.
I wonder if teachers are still coughing up $400 a year for supplies. Maybe after listening to complaints from the teachers, the administrators decided to get smart and hound the taxpayers (parents).
Too many administrators, too much waste.
I cannot understand why the schools don’t supply the teachers with something as basic as copypaper. That’s the least they can do.
I wonder if teachers are still coughing up $400 a year for supplies. Maybe after listening to complaints from the teachers, the administrators decided to get smart and hound the taxpayers (parents).
Too many administrators, too much waste.
Here's what they did with the Memphis city schools this year. (My kids aren't in that system.) In all their infinite wisdom, they decided that in order to save $$, every student that lived within 2 miles of the school is now required to walk. Doesn't matter if they have to walk on busy streets or through crime ridden streets in bad weather. They've got to save money, darn it!
In the mean time, the superintendant gets to keep his armed bodyguards and the administrators get to keep their school vehicles and cell phones so they can record pornographic videos of their female students. In addition, their food program is rife with corruption with employees stealing thousands of dollars in food to operate their personal catering businesses and feed their families and friends and probably churches. They did bring a guy in, last year, to address the problems with the food service dept but when he started pointing these problems out...they fired him. He didn't last a week. Stepped on too many toes.
The parents are NOT happy that their little precious darlings are having to walk so far while all this other stuff is going on. I can't say that I blame them in light of how the budget is allocated. But...it's a Democrat town. The mind set of the average Memphis govt employee is..."I'm a get mine!" What more can they expect?
You are getting there. If they need THAT class to graduate, it is required. If they need A class to graduate, but not that specific class to provide the hours, then it isn’t required.
For example, a student might be able to take band (with a significant fee attached), work on the school newspaper (with a smaller fee), or run laps for 50 minutes each day as part of PE (for free). Any would provide credit for one class toward graduation, but none would be a required course, and the fee would not be required for graduation.
The student (and parents) would then have to make choices based on interests and abilities. It’s good preparation for life for those who don’t want to live in a socialist utopia of ‘entitlements’.
...and which law does that violate?
Then we actually agree. If the student HAS to take THAT class and is unable to pay the ‘fees’ something should be done. Ie. used materials, different assignment or even a different class. I simply do not feel that a child should be in danger of being unable to graduate due to simply being poor. I do not think that a district should be able to ‘require’ ANY class that the student has to pay for. That’s what our taxes are for.
None that I’m aware of. But that doesn’t make it less of a fact.
“And then the teacher collected all that stuff the first day and handed it out to other children, as needed.”
I’ve heard of that happening. I cannot believe that is legal, and I’d like to see what they think empowers them to do it. I’d sure try to have the teacher arrested for theft.
Wow! My late father always said public education is a racket.
$400 is the sum bandied about by teachers unions regarding out-of-pocket expenses their teachers have to spend for classrom supplies.
Yikes! Armed bodyguards! Someone’s gunning for the “superintendent?” Pornographic videos? I wouldn’t doubt it. Didn’t TN have a scandal several years ago about middle school students in a locker room being taped by the administration?
People get the government they deserve. You’re lucky your kids aren’t in the system.
Anywhere you have a food service, whether it’s in a county hospital or a public school system, you have people who are going to try to walk out with a turkey between their legs.
The state doesn’t require the kid to take band to graduate. It’s a choice.
And if you’re that concerned, why don’t you send the school district a check.
Clovis, CA, has not been overrun with illegals. The high schools are good schools, and the community overall is well off and pretty conservative. All of the Clovis Schools provide football uniforms and they all gave good football and baseball teams. Clovis High has won two national baseball titles and any number of Valley championships. Taxes aren’t any more for the most part than other areas of the State. There was a ballot measure requesting a 1% increase of the sales tax but Clovis voters overwhelmingly rejected it.
All my sons played high school baseball or football, and if they had required us to purchase the uniforms, we would have done so. That being said, there is no doubt that some students would not have been able to afford the uniforms.
I agree for the most part. In Clovis, there are teaching jobs that cannot be filled by certificated teachers because there is a coaching requirement attached to it. If two people are qualified to do a job, but the district is looking for a coach, the one who can coach gets the job. There is a HEAVY emphasis on sports in Clovis, and when a new coach comes in, he brings in his new staff, and the district moves heaven and earth to make the new staff members have jobs.
It’s becoming obvious that you are merely looking for someone to argue with. I am not in the mood to argue. I never said that band was required to graduate. I said that the district should not require any fees for classes that are required for graduation. With that I bid you good day.
Pay for their kids' school, they complain.
Pay for their health care, they complain.
Pay for their housing, they complain.
Pay for their food, they complain (and eat better than we do).
Maybe I should just stop paying for all my own stuff and let someone else pay for it. Definitely beats having to scrimp and save and live responsibly.
Sorry. There was no way to tell from the post or on the link that this was California, not New Mexico. And another poster commented about the taxes. I would have no way of knowing. If everyone is prosperous, on whose behalf was this lawsuit filed? If the fees aren’t for uniforms, what are they for? I guess my question is, what was your point? That people are cheap for not wanting to pay the fees? And finally, how did Clovis manage to avoid being overrun by illegals?
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