Posted on 05/04/2009 3:14:15 PM PDT by A Navy Vet
President Thomas Jefferson's own words (the right-wing extremist that he was!):
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."
"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state."
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
FYI
Yet if Jefferson were alive today, we would have Freepers bashing him as a neo-con and a RINO for sending the Marines to Tripoli to defeat Islamic Pirates and going against his ideological beliefs buy spending Govt $$$ to buy the Louisiana Purchase and send out Louis and Clark to expore it.
My personal favorite in the Founding Fathers. Several of my tea party signs bore his quotes......
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
President and Founding Father: Mr. Thomas Jefferson.;
Please tell me how that NO longer applies to our societal compact. You're witnessing such a "government gaining ground" as I write this.
I respectfully doubt your premise.
I do not want to be in a union, which defiles my God!
Should we start having Covenant Ceremonies? Just wondering.
IF MARRIAGE IS TAKEN OVER BY OUR JUDGES...I DONT WANT ANY PART OF IT. IT IS A COVENANT BEFORE GOD.
Please give me the title of the book. Thank you.
Some of my favorites.
Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that
God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826),
Notes on the State of Virginia -
denouncing the evils of slavery
The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
We never regret having eaten too little.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
I predict future happiness for Americans if they
can prevent the government from wasting the labors
of the people under the pretense of taking care of
them.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826),
letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away
from those who are willing to work and give to those
who would not.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
There is nothing more unequal, than the equal
treatment of unequal people.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
My only fear is that I may live too long.
This would be a subject of dread to me.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826), 1801
Democracy is 51% of the people taking away the
rights of the other 49%.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 182
Why are you bringing this up on this thread? As much as I may agree with some of your thoughts, the topic is about Constitutionalism (ideology - not theology). Take it elsewhere...
...and God Bless Texas. I would have moved there years ago if it weren't for my wife's obligation to her aging parents. I live in California.
To get your attention...This is part of the Constitution...the Supreme Court judge Obama wished to support, thinks judges make the laws!!!! Constitutional...NO!...AND NO ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
They might also mention he charged his Vice President with treason after the latter (Aaron Burr) took him up on his advice.
ping
everyone should send each of our congressman and our most high leader a copy of this.
and dont forget your state and local government while you are at it.
Below is from George Washington’s Farewell Address!
Warns against the party system.
It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble
the Public Administration..agitates the Community with
ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the
animosity of one..against another..
it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption.
thus the policy and the will of one country are
subjected to the policy and will of another.”
Stresses the importance of religion and morality.
“Where is the security for property, for reputation,
for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert
the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation
in Courts of Justice?”
On stable public credit.
“...cherish public credit.
One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly
as possible.. avoiding likewise the accumulation of
debt.. it is essential that you...bear in mind, that
towards the payments of debts there must be Revenue,
that to have Revenue there must be taxes;
that no taxes can be devised, which are not..
.inconvenient and unpleasant...”
Warns against permanent foreign alliances.
“It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent
alliances with any portion of the foreign world...”
I'm getting so tired of you fundamentalist types interjecting your "beliefs" in what should be a debate about socialist vs. conservative societal compact. People like you give ammunition to the other side. I wouldn't be surprised to see your post pop up on some liberal forum to make their point.
Take your stuff to the religion forum on this board if you have nothing to offer about liberty, and fighting for it.
In case you haven't been paying attention, Souter is a leftist SC justice. I doubt that obami can "install" anyone more left. Get a frigging grip. The only one we have to worry about is Kennedy, who is often the swing vote.
So now you want to talk about the topic and not your religious perspective? Okay, let's talk.
The title of the series is “Jefferson and his times”.
They were possibly the wisest men who ever graced this planet. They were learned; they were experienced; they were businessmen; they were cobblers; they were of all classes. Most importantly, they were willing to give ALL for their LIBERTY and inherent rights.
Most people forget if Washingtion, Adams, Jefferson, et al had lost the Revolutionary War, they would have been executed as traitors by King George.
Because of their willingness to put ALL on the line, me and my wife have freedom (although diminishing under Bush/Obami) and opportunity that doesn't exist in so many places in the world.
And because of THEIR sacrifice and wisdom, and those who have sacrificed after them, I still and will always uphold my Oath to the United States Constitution.
Thank you.
Jefferson is my favorite President.
I've never understood the fanaticism with Lincoln. Although, I may be ill-informed, I didn't like the fact that he fought so much against the South succeeding. I believe any State or Peoples have the right to separate from their societal compact for what ever reason.
There are numerous States who have or are considering resolutions to re-affirm their State rights. Of course, state resolutions have no binding authority over their contract with the Union. But it is good that the States are getting fed up with the FedGov dictating to everyone within those States.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
Those two (2) quotes, above all, need to be hammered into the Joe-Soccor-Mom mentality again and again and again, until they finally understand and stop voting for well-spoken "charming" politicians.
I agree with you but the constitution is being destroyed by people that dont believe in it , understand it or care about it. Some even think the constitution is something you spit on.
I really dont think the constitution will survive the future.
you have a few elites taking control of everthing and a dumb uneducated public who keeps voting them in office because they think they can get something for free.Half the public has nothing invested in this country and really dont care.
So, how many of the following quotes are bogus? Best I can tell, all but the first two:
"A wise and frugal government, [which shall restrain men from injuring one another,] which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." LOOKS GOOD
"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state." LOOKS GOOD
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive." BOGUS
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." BOGUS
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." BOGUS
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." BOGUS
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." BOGUS
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." BOGUS
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."BOGUS
Have mercy on us !!
Prepare to be flamed !!!
Wow, so a lot of these are urban legend-type quotes?
Even my favorite Jefferson quote:
“That Govt is best which governs least.”
http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/That_government_is_best_which_governs_least
Ha! ;-)
Some years ago I paid $10 for a 1,000 page book of genuine quotations, including many by Jefferson -- for example:
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
But I think now, I'd pay a lot more than $10 for a book of all the fake quotations floating around, explaining where they came from and why... ;-)
On all but one I believe you are correct.
The “No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms” quote is actually part of the original draft for the Virginia Constitution, Article IV, Rights, Public and Private.
Years ago I bought (and paid alot for!) Jefferson: Writings
ed. By Merrill Peterson
It does not have a complete collection of his writings except I think that all of his letters ever recovered are there.
Check out my link above.
You're right, it was part of Jefferson's draft, but not adopted in the final Virginia Constitution.
Note further how Jefferson himself apparently modified the language in subsequent drafts -- adding "within his own lands or tenements."
I think you can deduce Jefferson's real thought on this subject by combining one of the genuine quotes above:
"Every citizen should be a soldier...."
with the Second Ammendment:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
What Jefferson, Washington and other Founders wanted was for every citizen, belonging to "a well regulated militia," to "keep and bear arms" in his home, ready to be called up for service whenever needed.
And remember the reason: because they hated the idea, and denied the necessity, of a large standing army. Citizen soldiers serving in "a well regulated militia" would eliminate the need for such a dangerous institution.
Fortunately (or unfortunately), their ideal of no standing army didn't survive a series of now largely forgotten early military disasters.
Actual source: John Philpot Curran, in a speech before the Privy Council on July 10, 1790.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." NEAR-MISS
It's a common mis-quote. The correct quote is:
"if we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." - Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 29 November 1802[1]
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." BOGUS:
"This exact quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It bears a very vague resemblance to Jefferson's comment in a prospectus for his translation of Destutt de Tracy's Treatise on Political Economy:
"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, ‘the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"[3]"
"There is nothing more unequal, than the equal treatment of unequal people." BOGUS
So be it, if so. Still, each "BOGUS" quote is a truism. Guess I better do so more research. Thanks for the heads up.
Still, the gist of many of his statements amount to the statements I related above. I feel bad that I didn't quote our most important Statesman correctly and believed my historically incorrect quotations to be a slight upon such a great man.
I may have screwed up, but will continue to look into his papers to see if my quotations were based in fact. The Founding Fathers had much personal correspondence between themselves (letters and memos) that was not promoted in the media at the time. Let's look further...
Again, even if I'm proven wrong, the concepts are still valid in relation to our Constitutional heritage. Do you not agree?
“”No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands]” PROPOSED Virginia CONSTITUTION. FORD ED., ii, 27. (June, 1776.) On record. You’re wrong.
//"I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government//. It is always oppressive. It places the governors indeed more at their ease, at the expense of the people." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. (Forrest version) ME 6:391
//
Sorry, pal, but these and other quotes I mentioned above by President Jefferson actually exist. I don't know what books you've been reading (don't believe everything you read"), but these quotations are in the National Archives and some are hand-written by Mr. Jefferson, others are in copies of historical newsletters, not to mention minutes of the Continental Congress.
Have you ever read the personal correspondence between the Founding Fathers? I'll look up the other quotes you say I'm wrong about and get back to you. I could be wrong on some of the paraphrasing, and I could still be wrong about certain quotes. Well see, but I believe not because some blogger says no.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
Citation: Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Do yourself a favor and quit reading biased books and read the National Archives. It's all there for anyone to see, and actually exists on real-life parchment. Thomas Jefferson may have not said the exact words you want to agrue, but the intent is there for all to see. Shall we continue?
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Was that Franklin?
Jefferson?
Adams?
Lincoln?
Now 30 seconds and counting...
I'll give you a hint, it's not Washington.
Anyone got answer?
Ha!! Alexander Tytler -- supposedly. Possibly yet another made-up quote. ;-)
Here's what I know for certain: there are many, many bogus quotes floating around and often used by people to bolster their otherwise not-so-strong arguments. I think that's a fact, and not even debatable.
So the question is whether any or all the quotes you listed fall into the category of BOGUS? I suspected at least one did, and searching through various sites found that only the first two of your quotes could be positively verified.
The rest are all listed one place or another as being unverifiable, so presumed bogus.
Whether all of these sources searched every possible Jefferson document is, of course, a good question -- but they all claim they did.
You might know, I'm a bit of a "history buff," and a stickler for as much historical accuracy as possible -- knowing that even with the best of intentions, the best of historians sometimes get it wrong.
But the issue with Jefferson above all is extraordinarily important, because he was in some ways our most radical Founding Father (and that's saying a lot!), so it's especially important with Jefferson to make certain we have his ideas right, imho.
Sorry for the too-quick response. I'm out of time, got to run. Will come back to this later, maybe Sunday... ;-)
Here are some sources for both genuine Jefferson quotes and known bogus "quotes.":
Jefferson Encyclopedia: Bogus quotes
Please note my response on this subject to djf in post #33 above.
You are right, of course, those are Jefferson's words. You are also correct to add "within his own lands," just as Jefferson himself did in later drafts.
I suspect there may be more we could say, or debate, on this subject. See my post #33. If you disagree, then feel free to "fire away," so to speak. ;-)
//"I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government//. It is always oppressive. It places the governors indeed more at their ease, at the expense of the people." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. (Forrest version) ME 6:391"
"Sorry, pal, but these and other quotes I mentioned above by President Jefferson actually exist."
You are correct on both these quotes, my mistakes. On the first I misread it. Not sure what happened on the second, possibly couldn't find and "assumed" that meant "bogus."
Sorry about that...
Citation: Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334"
"Status: This quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It is often seen preceded by the sentence, "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms," which is from Jefferson's draft of the Virginia Constitution."
So what does this mean? My first guess would be that fake Jefferson quote manufacturing industry has started inventing citations to go along with their bogus quotes.
Check, check & recheck: I certainly do stand corrected on all but three items below. Those remain BOGUS. So here's the new list, as I see it:
"A wise and frugal government, [which shall restrain men from injuring one another,] which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." LOOKS GOOD
"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state." LOOKS GOOD
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive." LOOKS GOOD
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [IN HIS OWN LANDS]." LOOKS GOOD [w/"IN HIS OWN LANDS"]
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." BOGUS
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." BOGUS
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." LOOKS GOOD
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." LOOKS GOOD
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." BOGUS
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