Posted on 01/15/2009 8:32:09 AM PST by Ericka81
he cause of criminal violence is not drugs or alcohol but rather criminals. To believe otherwise is to expect every drug dealer in America to give up and apply for a job at McDonald’s or WalMart the day legalization occurs. Every society contains a sizable element whose members refuse to make an honest living under any circumstances. The legalization of drugs will not change this large-scale reality of human behavior.
For now, many societal malefactors have the option of selling or trafficking drugs. But their real trade is to profit from the unwillingness of others to take the risks involved in illegal activity. Think of drug legalization, then, as a new government regulation on the drug dealer. It removes the illegality, and therefore much of the profit, from his trade. Experience suggests that such changes in government policy motivate economic actors to find loopholes. For the drug dealer or supplier, that means finding some new illegal activity through which to cash in on one’s tolerance for the risks of crime.
(Excerpt) Read more at culture11.com ...
There is absolutely no reason why pot should remain illegal. And I say that as a card-carrying Extreme Right Wing Republican who wants to starve children and minorities.
End the Drug War!
And England out of Wales!
the problem with the WoD is the fact that the vast majority of the arrests are for minimal infractions. its rare that a large manufacturer/ dealer gets busted. and when they do, they typically have enough money to get out of it.
Welcome to FR. Many of us here support the Bill of Rights.
As Martin Behrman, then mayor of New Orleans, said when the Navy made the city shut down the Storyville red-light district, “You can make it illegal but you can’t make it unpopular.”
If you want to know whether legalizing vice will eliminate the criminal participation in that vice, look at prostitution in Amsterdam. The trade is legal, and it is still controled by criminals. Whether mind altering drugs in general or particular drugs should be legalized can be debated, and I haven’t settled on either position, but doing so to eliminate the criminal incentive for the drug trade is unlikely to work.
Bookmark for later reading.
Note: Don’t worry if you get flack with this post. It means you are over the target. It also isn’t representative of the majority here. Just take the constructive and ignore the idiots.
Whether on this or any other thread you find interesting discussions and two knuckle deep nose pickers at the same time.
Of course there's a reason: The majority of Americans are not in favor of legalization.
I do agree with you if you are talking about California and the other states where the people have spoken at the ballot box.
You take the super high profit out of a cheap product when it is legal.
The jail population would be cut in half, and the border patrol wouldn't waste time chasing bales of mj or kilos of coke.
Prior to 1904, all drugs in the US were legal and sold in "drug stores".
Did we have rampant groups of gangs killing each other trying to "control" drug stores?
Idiots that want to use drugs are going to, and the legalization of drugs won't eliminate all illegal acts, but it will eliminate the high profit that makes drug dealing rampant.
If you want to be a stoned zombie, have at it, people do it all the time with alcohol.
Do you think that alcohol prohibition will work?
Oh, we tried that, and got al capone and others like him.
We learned a lot from that experiment.
Apples & Oranges
Prostitution involves selling and trading people.
The criminal element there will always be present because the ‘product’ IS people. The product thinks, has feelings and doesn’t just sit there. The only way for the owners to control the ‘product’ and cut costs is threats and force. Criminals have the advantage in this business because they can essentially enslave people and sell a product that costs them almost nothing. Prostitution businesses run without force simply cannot compete.
Drugs are an object which can be grown or made in almost unlimited amounts.
Before being made illegal, many of the most dangerous drugs today such as cocaine, heroin, amphetamines were available over the counter at your local pharmacy.
If drugs were sold the same way today, criminals would not be able to compete and there would be no black market. Large legitimate drug companies with quality products and lower prices would put criminals out of business.
Just like the black market for alcohol has been virtually eliminated. There is a small black market due to high taxes but the quality does not compare to legitimate products.
Ditto your Extreme Right Wing Republican comment. I have never smoked pot, and have never needed to. However, I’m typing this after coming off a 4 day migraine trip. I have a doctor who doesn’t agree with prescribing pain pills willy nilly, and I appreciate that. Years ago, a doctor prescribed Vicodin for my migraines. It scared me. It scared me because I LIKED Vicodin. That was the last bottle I ever had.
I have read reports about THC treatments for migraines. If it’s non addictive and a successful treatment, sign me up. But, it’s illegal both for recreational and medicinal usage here in KY. So, I’ll wait and hope.
well, yeah but it’s the street level guys who carry illegal guns and who’s stray bullets hit kids on jungle gyms. don’t matter if it’s some guy in columbia or the federal gov’t supplying drugs. the drug trade will still be run by street thugs. and if it is legalized and the cost goes down, the drug-wars will escalate.
Illogical. That didn’t happen when prohibition ended.
LOL. So which side are you taking? On any presidential election 2008 thread, references to the majority of Americans are (here at FR) typically quite negative, given the results of the last election. As in, whatever the majority wants, we should have done the opposite.
and you can buy it in grocery stores. unless you think weed should be readily available at every A&P, then your analogy is illogical, spock.
Logic and the proof of history have never mattered to the Drug Warriors.
I know.
I supported the WO(S)D until age 27, when I wised up.
Why Cannabis was made illegal:
1. Racism -(number one reason)
2. Fear
3. Protection of Corporate Profits
4. Yellow Journalism -(certainly you jest)
5. Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators -(no way)
6. Personal Career Advancement and Greed
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html
Why not? Alcohol is available at A & P. Alcohol is more destructive to the body than weed.
And, btw, weed can be grown in Kentucky and St. Louis.Sulu.
‘Weed’ should be legal to sell anywhere alcohol and/or tobacco is. If A&P wants to sell it, it’s up to them. Processed products with medical uses should be sold in pharmacies.
Any ‘weed’ worth anything is grown right here in the USA. The same places where liquor is made such as Kentucky and Tennessee. Mexican dirt weed would be completely worthless if it was legalized.
The trade wouldn’t be run by street thugs any more than the alcohol and tobacco trade is run by criminals. Nobody would buy anything from criminals if they can buy a better, cheaper and safer product legally and feel safe doing it.
Just legalizing pot would deprive these major drug trafficking organizations of most of their income. According to our government marijuana sales Americans accounts for about 62% of the money these Mexican drug trafficking organizations gross from drugs. Their net income form marijuana is probably a good bit higher percentage of their net income from drugs in general because they actually produce the pot. They sell about $8.6 billion worth of pot to Americans and only about $3.9 billion worth of cocaine, the second most widely used illegal drug, but they are only the middlemen for the cocaine. It’s produced in South America. The Mexicans now control most cocaine distribution in the United States but they have to purchase it in South America, get it smuggled to Mexico and then smuggle it here. All of this has to increase their costs, as does the fact that American law enforcement really seem to focus on the hard stuff mostly and they seize an awful lot of it. They seize more marijuana, but more marijuana is consumed in this country than all other illegal drugs combined so there is a whole lot more of it out there to be seized. For these Mexican drug trafficking organizations, marijuana is their cash cow. It’s how they derive most of their income. Take most of their income from them and we’ll see a corresponding decrease in the number of people involved with the illegal drug trade and the death toll. These organizations will be smaller, less powerful, and easier for governments to contain.
Actually, to some extent it did happen. There were so many people involved with the black market for alcohol during Prohibition and after Prohibition ended most of them did not move on to other criminal enterprises. The full time gangsters stayed with it, but most involved weren't Al Capone types. They were fairly regular people who were involved because the opportunity presented itself. Most of us probably have an ancestor or great uncle or something who ran liquor, helped smuggle it, acted as a look out, cooked it up in the woods, etc. My grandfather and his brother had a still in the woods and after Prohibition he worked as a carpenter (which he was doing even when he was a moonshiner) and eventually became a contractor and built houses and whole subdivisions for a living. A lot of booze runners went on to drive for NASCAR. Most of the people involved went off and didn't continue with a their "life of crime." Organized crime didn't go away, but they shrunk down considerably from what they were in the heyday of Prohibition.
why would it still need to go thru dealers? legalise it and package and tax it like cigarettes.
well because it ain’t like booze or smokes. it’s more of a drug. i just think that allowing anyone 18 or over to buy as much weed as they wish would be a horrible idea. dealers would buy it and still sell it to the fiends on the block who could not buy an entire pack.
That didn't happen with booze after prohibition ended.
Booze and smokes are drugs. You don’t even know why you’re opposed to legalization.
Live long and prosper.
You’re right. It’s not like booze and smokes.
It’s no more addictive than freerepublic, all natural and has medical properties.
The only problems I know people have from ‘weed’ is trouble with dealers and the law. All caused by prohibition.
geeze, advil is a drug. do you think weed and camel lights are comparable?
From reading your post, it sounds like advil should be the only legal drug. Geeze!
i originally said that weed is "more of a drug" than booze or smokes. then you basically compared them all by saying that booze and smokes are drugs. which i had already stated. i just said weed was MORE of a drug than booze or smokes.
look. advil, booze and smokes are easily accessible. my only point is that weed should not be as accessible. that's it.
So now keeping pot illegal is necessary so drug dealers will not lose their jobs. Got it.
Comparable? Not even close
Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs known to man and is known to alter a user’s brain chemistry toward lifetime addiction. Cigs are one of the leading causes of illness in the world.
Advil can kill or cause liver damage over time. Especially when combined with alcohol. Overdosing on advil is easy and leads to an excruciating death.
I’d like you to show me a single death by illness or overdose caused by ‘weed’.
so any 17 year old with an older brother or a fake ID should get as much weed as he can afford. ok, got it.
if there were pack-of-weed-a-day smokers i’d show you a lot. come on. we’re talking about degree here. how many people smoke 20 marijuana cigs a day for 20 years like smokers do?
Right now they don’t even need a fake ID. They know where to get it. They find it now.
I’d like you to show me a single death by illness or overdose caused by ‘weed’.
Lots of deaths and life injuries are caused by weed.......well, the murderers that grow, transport, distribute and protect the weed.
Those deaths occur because it’s illegal. Just as deaths occurred because of prohibition. These deaths would end with legalization just as they did when prohibition was repealed.
People who just do a little weed, or cocaine, or etc recreationally will not be counted as criminals unless they cause harm while under the influence.
Meanwhile, the corrupt WoDs is shut down, bad LEOs, judges, politicians, border patrol, etc no longer are able to be bribed because of drugs
Illegal drug cartels are put out of business.
The only downside I see to this, and I'm not so sure that it IS a downside, is that some people will become addicted, ignore everything else, jobs, food, drink, family, etc till they starve to death and die, meaning that the gene pool gets cleansed a little of addictive types.
And the problem is............?
There is no need to chain smoke MJ like cigs so it hurts your lungs less. It is a far superior and safer drug. In fact, if MJ was cheap more people would eat it instead of smoking. Eating MJ and it’s extracts causes no harm.
I know plenty that smoke more than a pack-a-day equivalent(~1/8oz per day). Rolled and unfiltered. Most for about 10-20 but some for over 20 years. They have no lung health issues but I know plenty that smoke cigs with major problems. MJ tar is not as sticky and THC actually acts as an expectorant to clean the lungs.
I also suspect many of the pesticides, fillers and additives used in tobacco contributes to problems. All natural is the way to go.
Drug laws were invented by liberals into order to create government power and government workers.
All about police control.
Lots of death and life injuries are caused by anything of value. People are always trying to protect it and others try to steal it.
By making a common weed that has been smoked and enjoyed for thousands of years illegal, it has become more valuable than gold.
Now imagine something more valuable than gold and then imagine denying producers/wholesalers/retailers protection from police or the law if robbed. The idiots have turned a grass into a criminal magnet!
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