Joint CHP-Marine Corps Checkpoint Raises Suspicions

KESQ ^ | Dec. 16, 2008 | Nathan Baca

[decimon]

he California Highway Patrol in the High Desert and the Twentynine Palms Marine Base are receiving dozens of calls complaining about a controversial DUI checkpoint. Military Police joined the CHP for a recent checkpoint in Yucca Valley.

[decimon]

Hinky? Normal?

[mnehring]

Probably to help the Marines train to run checkpoints overseas like Iraq.

[SFR]

So it begins. We would like to see your papers please.

[Blackhawk]

Probably okay, I stood Shore Patrol duty with CHIP(monks) in San Diego when stationed there. Was close to base and was there in case Navy / Other Branch Service members were stopped. Saves CHIP’s loads of paperwork to just hand them over to us rather than Arresting-Booking-Transfering, etc.

[decimon]

Probably to help the Marines train to run checkpoints overseas like Iraq.

A coupla comments say MPs know how to do sobriety tests; that it's part of their training. That makes sense to me.

[decimon]

Probably okay, I stood Shore Patrol...

But SP is a detail and not an MOS, no?

[mnehring]

We would like to see your papers please.

You watch too many movies.

[stylin_geek]

At this stage of the game, I’d trust the professionalism of the Marines over the police when it comes to checkpoints.

That being said, I take a dim view of local police allowing Marines to observe a checkpoint. It’s fine line too easily crossed when it comes to Posse Comitatus and the military being directly involved with civilian law enforcement.

The cops say they invited the Marines. What I’d like to know is why the Marines didn’t invite the police on base to give them pointers when it comes to field sobriety tests?

[SFR]

True, they will probably say “we would like to see your license, registration papers, and proof of insurance.”

[truth_seeker]

Do the military branches send their police, into towns where the servicemen visit?

Shore Patrol, MPs etc? I thought they DID.

In my time the military person belonged to the US government 24/7.

Maybe the local town has had a lot of DUIs from Marines. Maybe they requested some help with “your people.”

I have no problem with this. I’m sure that the CHP is the lead, pulls over the driver, determines if they are civilian or military.

If the driver is military, the Shore Patrol or MPs step in.

Be very certain that if caught driving drunk, they are violating a lawful direct order from their commanders. Unit, base, etc.

[omega4179]

[mnehring]

hat I’d like to know is why the Marines didn’t invite the police on base to give them pointers when it comes to field sobriety tests?

It is easy to just get pointers, what they are probably observing is how people react at checkpoints. You can't just describe nonverbal queues and many you really can't fake. It is a term we use a lot called 'Educhaos', learning through the 'chaos' of real life. People react in unexpected ways that you can't put in a book or just describe, but you need to physically observe.

[Steely Tom]

No worries, mate. This’ll all be peachy when it’s a joint CHP/ObamaCorps checkpoint operation. There won’t be but a few complaint calls then, and they’ll be quickly taken care of.

[decimon]

I can say from experience that MPs couldn’t arrest civilians even at the Pentagon. If attacked, they could noggin-knot them with nightsticks but not arrest them. US Marshals were there for that. This was in 1967.

[nufsed]

It began a few years ago when the courts said we could be searched at such checkpoints.

[river rat]

If people would read the ENTIRE article — they would see there is no cause for concern.... NONE.

[Global2010]

Boy that President Elect is not wasting anytime.

[stylin_geek]

I can easily agree with that. And I can easily see the explanation being true....as long as it doesn’t become a commonplace event.

To me, it’s the kind of thing one needs to keep a close eye on.

[mnehring]

ahh come on, let them have their paranoid knee jerk reaction..

[angkor]

>>>>>Probably okay, I stood Shore Patrol duty with CHIP(monks) in San Diego when stationed there.<<<<<

Hey, weren’t you that swabbie who once carded me for that 3.2 “beer” I was drinking at NTC?

;-)

[mad_as_he$$]

If the CHP is involved there are no good intentions.

[angkor]

>>>>>>If people would read the ENTIRE article — they would see there is no cause for concern.... NONE.<<<<<<<

There’s a lot of that going around on FR lately.

The next step is to handhold people through the article paragraph-by-paragraph.

[Blackhawk]

But SP is a detail and not an MOS, no?

Yes and No. For me it was just a detail. My MOS was CTM Cryptography, but I was often accompanied by Master at Arms (MA's). Master at Arms are basically Navy Police. I'm no slouch, but these guy's were mostly 6'4" and 250. Nice to have backing you up in case of trouble.

[mnehring]

There’s a lot of that going around on FR lately.

Lately? That's been SOP here for a decade.

[Bob]

Probably okay, I stood Shore Patrol...

But SP is a detail and not an MOS, no?

Many years (actually decades) ago, there was no distinct rate for SP; individuals from visiting ships were detailed in support of a port's local semi-permanent shore patrol detachment. (The locals knew the town; the ship's personnel knew their fellow crew members.)

If I'm not mistaken, the Navy now has a Master At Arms rate as its own specialty.

[Blackhawk]

Hey, weren’t you that swabbie who once carded me for that 3.2 “beer” I was drinking at NTC?

Only if it was in '77. Then maybe could be. Loved the watches at the Club carding and breaking up fights. Never dull, never boring and I could smoke. Can't smoke when doing Roving Patrol. Well, could, just don't get caught.

[Oatka]

Loved that movie (They Live!). Most chilling line: “I have one who can SEE.”

The original story was about meat-eating aliens, and while good, I liked Carpenter’s Earth-aa-a-Third-World-sweatshop better. The earth men who sold out are todays “Free Traders”.

[decimon]

If the CHP is involved there are no good intentions.

Now you'll have Erik Estrada all worked up.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don’t believe folks with actual experience are allowed to post on these conspiracy threads.

[Blackhawk]

If I'm not mistaken, the Navy now has a Master At Arms rate as its own specialty. Yep. Didn't know that there didn't used to be but we had them from at least '76 on.

[decimon]

I don’t believe folks with actual experience are allowed to post on these conspiracy threads.

I was hoping someone with MP experience would chime in.

[Secret Agent Man]

29 Palms marines....

You know, if they picked any other marine contingent that would be one thing. But 29 Palms is famous for being the groups of marines that were given the “would you shoot civilians” questionnaires.

[Bob]

If I'm not mistaken, the Navy now has a Master At Arms rate as its own specialty.
Yep. Didn't know that there didn't used to be but we had them from at least '76 on.

Well, that fits. I got out in 1975. AFAIK, at the time, Masters at Arms were pulled from other rates and given job-specific specialized training. (As I said, it's been decades.)

[444Flyer]

“No worries, mate. This’ll all be peachy when it's a joint CHP/ObamaCorps checkpoint operation. There won't be but a few complaint calls then, and they'll be quickly taken care of.”

Anybody know what is up with this Civilian Police Force taking up with the Marine Corps? Does this sound paramilitary? Links:

http://www.usmccle.com/civLawHome.htm

[ansel12]

“Do the military branches send their police, into towns where the servicemen visit?

Shore Patrol, MPs etc? I thought they DID.”

---

Having dodged MPs when I was in beautiful downtown Leesville La. without a pass during basic training, I would say yes.

[hedgetrimmer]

What the heck?!?!

[decimon]

Looks like they are hiring (not enlisting) civilian police to supplant or supplement MPs. Like hiring civilian cooks.

[SECURE AMERICA]

Military Police regularly work with Government Police all across the Nation.
Have done so since I was a Military Police Officer back in 1970’s

[444Flyer]

What's wrong with just using MP’s? They are bringing in civilians alongside the MP’s on base. Wouldn't there be a conflict of interests between those being the civilian force and the Marine’s own MPs? Whom answers to whom I wonder. What jurisdiction does the Civy force answer to? What happens when this “civilian force” is called off base and must deal with civilians rather than military personnel? What other purposes could a specialized force of 1200+ civilian officers who have been trained alongside the Marines serve outside of serving on bases?

Lots of questions...(especially with Obama coming into play in a month).

[angkor]

>>>Lately? That’s been SOP here for a decade.<<<<<

Proud author of 14,000 FR posts and not a single article read!

[angkor]

>>>>>Only if it was in ‘77. Then maybe could be. Loved the watches at the Club carding and breaking up fights<<<<<

I was there in 75/76, at the A School barracks but made it to the enlisted club only once because I couldn’t stand to drink that so-called “beer”. Some Filipino or VN chick ran a bar over the hill at OB and so that’s where we’d go instead.

Loved SD, I was there almost 6 months and it rained maybe 3 times. Maybe 1. Amazingly there was a snow flurry for about 10 minutes one day.

[angkor]

BTW, NTC San Diego had a little sailing club with a bunch of small skiffs you could rent and sail out in the harbor (after you qualified). Very nice, I spent many an afternoon there.

[decimon]

What's wrong with just using MP’s?

From your link: "Limitations on growing the active duty force have resulted in the hiring of civilians to provide Security and Law Enforcement services across the Department of Defense."

Looks like the are limits on numbers of enlisted personnel but not civilian hires.

[decimon]

What happens when this “civilian force” is called off base and must deal with civilians rather than military personnel?

As employees of the DoD, I think they would have no authority over civilians.

[IrishPennant]

Me as well...as an MP (5811 MOS in the Corps) I worked Town Patrol in wonderful Jacksonville, NC outside of Camp LeJeune along with local PD when Court Street was a big stripper hot spot (Tough Duty) and did a Fourth of July weekend assignment with the Myrtle Beach PD around 1984 or 85 I think.

Civilian cops would ID them and when the green Military ID was produced, we went hands on and arranged transport back to their unit. It did save the local PD alot of jail space and paperwork

I actually got my first Letter of Commendation from the Base Commander for that assignment...having girls in bikinis throwing hotel keys at me...should have gotten haz duty pay too, I guess.

[mad_as_he$$]

Back in the day I remember that; but it was clear that they had no authority over civilians.

[Nebr FAL owner]

Yes its a detail for the Navy version of MP’s called Master at Arms.

[IrishPennant]

What's wrong with just using MP’s? They are bringing in civilians alongside the MP’s on base. Wouldn't there be a conflict of interests between those being the civilian force and the Marine’s own MPs? Whom answers to whom I wonder. What jurisdiction does the Civy force answer to? What happens when this “civilian force” is called off base and must deal with civilians rather than military personnel? What other purposes could a specialized force of 1200+ civilian officers who have been trained alongside the Marines serve outside of serving on bases? Lots of questions...(especially with Obama coming into play in a month).

Just over complicating it here - simply an agreement here b/n the local PD and base MP's to take military persons off their hands when identified. MP's do not go hands on with civilians unless they buck the cops and fight - and then they back them up as any passing civilian should do.

[meyer]

Military doing civilian police duty? Is that constitutional?

[decimon]

...simply an agreement here b/n the local PD and base MP's...

In the link the Corps is hiring civilian cops to be employees of the Corps.