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Creationism and evolution debated
the Gainesville Sun ^ | October 28, 2008 | Nathan Crabbe

Posted on 10/28/2008 4:11:13 PM PDT by Soliton

A flaw in intelligent design is the question of who designed the designer, he said. He said the fossil record shows a period of billions of years before the evolution of humans.

"There's nothing creative in terms of a spark of creation or an overnight Genesis event," he said.

Jacoby said that like the nine months it takes for someone to be born, God works in sometimes lengthy scientific processes.

"What was God doing for 3.5 billion years?" he said. "God takes his sweet time."

Shermer said it was a "cosmic accident" that human life developed on the planet. Vestigial structures such as male nipples and the appendix show how humans developed over time, he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at gatorsports.com ...


TOPICS: Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creationism; evolution; id

1 posted on 10/28/2008 4:11:15 PM PDT by Soliton
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To: Soliton

There is a lot of evidence that points to a much younger Sun, Earth, and solar system than the 3.5 billion year figure that is currently popular.

How old? who knows but the creator.


2 posted on 10/28/2008 4:19:47 PM PDT by valkyry1 (McCain/Palin 2008)
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To: valkyry1

Evolution are creationism are not mutually exclusive.


3 posted on 10/28/2008 4:21:33 PM PDT by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: randomhero97

are = and


4 posted on 10/28/2008 4:21:56 PM PDT by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: valkyry1
There is a lot of evidence that points to a much younger Sun, Earth, and solar system than the 3.5 billion year figure that is currently popular.

Actually, the Earth is older. He is referring to the first living things. I would love to see an evidence you may have.

5 posted on 10/28/2008 4:21:56 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: valkyry1
Doesn't matter ~ we now know that out of the observable 11 dimensions encompassing the structure of our end of the universe that 3 of them are devoted strictly to time.

BTW, shortly after that news the whole project in Antarctica appears to have disappeared from the face of the Earth.

Anyone know where those guys went?

6 posted on 10/28/2008 4:23:53 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: randomhero97
Evolution are creationism are not mutually exclusive.

Of course not

7 posted on 10/28/2008 4:25:50 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton

Same old drivel...different day.

Hebrews 11:6


8 posted on 10/28/2008 4:28:47 PM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: Soliton
Serious or are you being sarcastic?

I'm in total agreement with you. There is no way the Earth or the Universe for that matter is only 5,000 years old for that matter.

If one has studied both in physical sciences and theology than one can come to the conclusion I had in my earlier post.
9 posted on 10/28/2008 4:30:13 PM PDT by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: valkyry1

“How old?”

Well we can keep examining evidence and see where it leads, or we can just make something up—say about 4,317 years.


10 posted on 10/28/2008 4:37:55 PM PDT by Natchez Hawk (What's so funny about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Amendments?)
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To: randomhero97

exactly. As a catholic myself, one does not exclude the other. the lord works in mysterious ways.


11 posted on 10/28/2008 4:37:55 PM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: randomhero97

I was agreeing with you


12 posted on 10/28/2008 4:39:56 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton

Lol, just making sure.


13 posted on 10/28/2008 4:43:03 PM PDT by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: randomhero97

someday a war will start because somebody forgot to add a smiley face :-)


14 posted on 10/28/2008 4:44:40 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton

“Shermer said it was a “cosmic accident” that human life developed on the planet”

No one could look at a Van-Go Painting and think (paint spill) nor a building by Robert Mills and think (oh cool, look how those stones fell) but they can look at this earth and it’s inhabitants and think “cosmic accident”.

GOD could settle this but he doesn’t, so does that mean there is no GOD or does it simply mean he chooses not to reveal the truth to us. I believe he is real and does not reveal our origin because he requires us to accept his word on faith. This will never be settled, all positions will be based on faith or belief.


15 posted on 10/28/2008 4:45:19 PM PDT by Peter Horry (Mount Up Everybody and Ride to the Sound of the Guns .. Pat Buchanan)
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To: Soliton

OR AN ENTIRE POST IN CAPS.


16 posted on 10/28/2008 4:46:57 PM PDT by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: Peter Horry
This will never be settled, all positions will be based on faith or belief.

No, faith isn't science and science supports evolution. That, however gives you more of an opportunity to practice your faith.

17 posted on 10/28/2008 4:48:25 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Peter Horry

“...all positions will be based on belief or faith.”

There are many different versions of faith, many contradictory.

Would God therefore not want us to use science to seek truth?


18 posted on 10/28/2008 4:51:27 PM PDT by Natchez Hawk (What's so funny about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Amendments?)
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To: Soliton

One man’s “Cosmic accident” is another man’s “Cosmic Inevitability”.

We only live in one universe, and this one has humans in it. If one has faith that things happen by God’s will then randomness is just another part of God’s plan.


19 posted on 10/28/2008 4:52:45 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed.... so how could it be Redistributed?)
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To: Natchez Hawk

//say about 4,317 years//

I did not say that. I just said there are many new observations and theory’s that would point to a much younger Sun/Earth/Planets than the popular 3.5 Billion years or so.


20 posted on 10/28/2008 4:53:34 PM PDT by valkyry1 (McCain/Palin 2008)
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To: Soliton

No science is based on observable data that can be repeated and studied, evolution can not be proven in this manner. Evolution is comprised of deductions from observances, that is not proof. Evolution is as faith or belief based as religion.


21 posted on 10/28/2008 4:56:26 PM PDT by Peter Horry (Mount Up Everybody and Ride to the Sound of the Guns .. Pat Buchanan)
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To: Peter Horry
No science is based on observable data that can be repeated and studied, evolution can not be proven in this manner.

There have been thousands of experiments conducted that are reproducible that support evolution

22 posted on 10/28/2008 5:00:31 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: allmendream
If one has faith that things happen by God’s will then randomness is just another part of God’s plan.,

Zactly!

23 posted on 10/28/2008 5:01:54 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: valkyry1

No, no, I wasn’t trying to say you were saying that. I was throwing out a more general statement about where humanity was very recently in thinking about the world and where we are now—even as we continue to learn and reexamine theories. I threw out the definite number as opposed to a (frustrating) search for answers—which are still changing as we learn more.


24 posted on 10/28/2008 5:04:04 PM PDT by Natchez Hawk (What's so funny about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Amendments?)
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To: Natchez Hawk

Would God therefore not want us to use science to seek truth”

He most certainly would, and he does but we can only observe and study what is made available to us. He, archaeologists are still having trouble determining how we lived, using available clues, for the last 450 years.


25 posted on 10/28/2008 5:04:58 PM PDT by Peter Horry (Mount Up Everybody and Ride to the Sound of the Guns .. Pat Buchanan)
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To: Soliton

Well, let’s just take 5 of them, your choice. What are they and where can I read of the verifiable studies.


26 posted on 10/28/2008 5:10:56 PM PDT by Peter Horry (Mount Up Everybody and Ride to the Sound of the Guns .. Pat Buchanan)
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To: muawiyah

//BTW, shortly after that news the whole project in Antarctica appears to have disappeared from the face of the Earth.//

Good question, something must have happened. Maybe a personnel issue or support and funding went away.


27 posted on 10/28/2008 5:19:27 PM PDT by valkyry1 (McCain/Palin 2008)
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To: Soliton
Soliton, the "'sperments" have their followers, and some of them postulate that they could support "evolution".

Yet, after more than 20 years the jars continue to contain the very same species with which they started.

In some cases "characgteristics" were acquired that are readily 'splained as "contamination".

Yes, contamnation since we are dealing with lots and lots of jars filled with billions of tiny critters, and even tinier critters drift in and out of this non-negative pressure environment.

28 posted on 10/28/2008 5:25:11 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Peter Horry

Lizard experiment suggests rapid evolution
http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/evol/lizard.html

Novel Experiment Documents Evolution Of Genome In Near-real Time
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061106094904.htm

Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16136131

Scientists Study The Evolution Of Pregnancy In Mammals
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1561805/scientists_study_the_evolution_of_pregnancy_in_mammals/

Sympatric Speciation: Models and Empirical Evidence
http://www.univ-lille1.fr/gepv/downloads/enseignements/L3-S5/L3-S5-Biodiv1-Speciation_(Eng).pdf


29 posted on 10/28/2008 5:28:22 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Soliton

Thanks for the information, I will read them. I have a little experience in science/engineering (but not in this field), have never studied theology (but have listened to many who have and read their writing )and realize that all data (such as forensics is open to interpretation and seldom/never complete) but also know that faith that can’t be challenged is worthless. I am always willing to learn. Until next time, good day.


30 posted on 10/28/2008 5:45:08 PM PDT by Peter Horry (Mount Up Everybody and Ride to the Sound of the Guns .. Pat Buchanan)
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To: Peter Horry
but also know that faith that can’t be challenged is worthless

Amen

31 posted on 10/28/2008 5:47:22 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: Peter Horry
No science is based on observable data that can be repeated and studied,...

I assume you meant, "No, science is based on observable data..."

That is correct. And all branches of science, including the various branches of science that contribute to the theory of evolution, must comply with this. It is called the scientific method.

...evolution can not be proven in this manner.

Nowhere in science is there "proof." Theory is the highest level of explanation that is available.

Evolution is comprised of deductions from observances, that is not proof.

It is not supposed to be proof. Science does not deal in "proof." It deals in explanation. The theory of evolution is currently the best explanation for the millions of facts that it covers. It is not contradicted by any significant facts. It makes predictions that lead to new facts. That is all that any theory can be expected to do, and in this the theory of evolution is a better explanatory tool than gravitational theory.

Evolution is as faith or belief based as religion.

That is false, even though that is one of the recent creationist talking points.

When two religions come up with competing claims, how is the issue settled? Most likely a schism, resulting in two similar religions with some differences in belief.

When there are two competing claims in science you turn to the evidence to see which one survives the tests (that "critical thinking" stuff).

The theory of evolution has withstood these tests for 150 years, and grown stronger with each challenge. All of that is based on evidence, not faith.

32 posted on 10/28/2008 6:24:25 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Soliton

if you want to know the truth about creation i strongly google kent hovind. i know he in prison cuz of taxes but he still know what he is talking about. he offered 250k to any evolutionist to prove SCIENTIFICALLY that evoloution was true and no one can do it. but google his debates with athiests he schools them every time.


33 posted on 10/28/2008 6:25:23 PM PDT by remaxagnt
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To: remaxagnt
i know he in prison cuz of taxes but he still know what he is talking about.

Would you take a bet from someone who doesn't have the money to pay up?,

34 posted on 10/28/2008 6:30:14 PM PDT by Soliton (Faith is an act of love; Love is an act of faith)
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To: muawiyah

35 posted on 10/28/2008 6:40:42 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Peter Horry
Hardcore Evolutionists are for Big Government and Centralization of Power by Liberals.

Hatred for all things ‘Biblical’ defines the modern hardcore liberal Evolutionists on Free Republic and their allies in the leadership of the Democrat Party, (the far left leaders of the Democrat Party are all hardcore evolutionists).

Both of these groups hate American historical values, they love liberal judges and judcial activist courts, and both of these groups worship the Big Government public school monopoly above all.

No matter how destructive the Public School Monopoly becomes, the hardcore Evolutionists will still worship the Big Government Public School.

The Free Republic Hardcore Evolutionists and the other Big Government Lefties love the Big Government Public Schools because it is their way of using the point of a gun to promote their materialistic religious views.

The hardcore evolutionists on Free Republic who claim to be small government libertarians are the worst liars of all and have proven they are actually for the worst extreme of Big Government Force. In fact they blubber about their Big Government Public Schools in almost every thread.

The Free Republic Hardcore Evolutionists always appeal to Big Government and favor an Oligarchy.

The Free Republic hardcore evolutionists worship Big Government at its very worst (public school monopoly) but claim libertarianism as a convenient, dishonest excuse for the extreme moral liberalism they spew on this conservative forum.

The Free Republic Hardcore Evolutionists are liars of the worst kind. They repeat the liberal dogma of the far left at DU and the Daily Kos.

Like all liberals, they want the Big Government, centalized power to undermine parental authority while using Big Government Public Schools, (run by liberals) to indoctrinate other people's children.

36 posted on 10/28/2008 11:23:16 PM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Old Landmarks
Nonsense. Complete and utter tripe.

And you seem to post the exact same nonsense to almost every thread in which you participate.

It is also completely wrong. You have equated theocon with conservative. It is possible to be a conservative without believing in your particular tribal idols and demons.

37 posted on 10/29/2008 6:41:44 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
It is not only true, it hits the mark and exposes the Free Republic Hardcore Evolutionist hypocrisy.

If the Free Republic Hardcore Evolutionists want to promote their liberal worldview by posting the same philosophical opinions over and over, they need to be exposed for what they really are.

38 posted on 10/30/2008 12:54:08 AM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Old Landmarks
If the Free Republic Hardcore Evolutionists want to promote their liberal worldview by posting the same philosophical opinions over and over, they need to be exposed for what they really are.

Are you suggesting that science is liberal? What a joke!

Science is neutral; it steps on any toes necessary to get at the facts, and to explain them.

Just because you are getting your toes stepped on doesn't make science wrong. Perhaps your particular narrow religious belief needs to be reexamined in the light of actual evidence.

39 posted on 10/30/2008 3:20:17 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Nonsense, avoidance, and hot air. You are batting zero. Try again.


40 posted on 10/30/2008 5:05:28 PM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Old Landmarks
Nonsense, avoidance, and hot air. You are batting zero. Try again.

The Enlightenment.

Ever hear of it?

It means we no longer have to kowtow to anyone's tribal idols and demons, and we can tell the shamans--all of them--to take a hike.

41 posted on 10/30/2008 6:49:11 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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