Posted on 06/28/2008 4:49:22 AM PDT by fwdude
Lately, I've had disturbing thoughts about the future, and the question arose in my mind: Can the United States become so bad, politically, that an option to leave for better climes becomes desireable? I think of our ancestors in Europe and their deep-rooted, ancient love for their own country, who, because of overwhelming political and social unrest and tyranical oppression, made the excruciating decision to migrate to America with little to start out and no prospects to succeed. I can't believe that we are so much better than many of these fine, Godly men, that we have resolve that they didn't.
Think of the worst case senario: Obama, or some other insanely radical liberal, wins the White House; liberal Democrats gain filibuster-proof majorities in both houses of Congress; two or three more appointments to the Supreme Court by this radical president and Congress, and all hell breaks loose on society as we know it. I won't explore any of the eventual resulting horrifying senarios - you can probably bear to imagine this for a limited time. But if the majority of this country chooses this path, are we really the United States of America any longer? Could this be the beginning of a mass migration as in the late 19th/early 20th centuries? I won't even speculate on the possible destination, as the whole world seems to be corrupted.
That said, I intend to stand firm to the last and speak out for the conservative, Godly priniples of our Fathers. The prospect of an Exodus may seem untenable, but in the face of overwhelming fascism, it may be flee, or die.
I hesitated to post this concern, but needed some encouragement.
Australia and New Zealand might be congenial, but it’s unlikely either will survive long without a robust United States.
Canada is a pleasant place, but it suffers from adopting the worst trendiness from both sides of the Atlantic.
The United States really is the one indespensible country and if it goes, Western civilization is in deep, deep trouble.
I agree, though - we seem to be the last bastion of political sanity in the world, even though it is weakened.
Torchlight and pitchforks......
Canada, Australia or New Zealand might be preferable to Obamia.
Eastern Europe, especially the Czech Republic, seem politically sound enough, but they are swimming in a sea of sharks. The Anglosphere may be the only places admitting English speaking immigrants.
You may have a point. In an America under total control of the liberals, anarchy is very likely. Criminals, historically coddled by the left, will run rampant in the streets. Conservatives really are the only ones equipped to possibly deal with a complete breakdown of society. Thinking of the song, "Country Folk Can Survive."
It may, in fact, be a "reset."
civil war
The Democommunists would use the same reasons that the Soviets did. They would say that they “invested” too much in **compulsory** government education and health care to allow them to leave.
Currently reading “Atlas Shrugged”.
Frightening parallels.
I’m afraid you may be right. The inconceivable is becoming conceivable.
You're not alone.
ML/NJ
America may go the route you fear, but we ain't there yet. If you want to avoid the creeping fascist mentality of gub’mint bureaucrats, find someplace in a state where centralized power is weak, focused on the cities or where individualism is still considered a virtue and not antisocial.
Finally, you need to take a breath of air. Constant reading of the news (even FR) can lead to some pretty dizzy thinking as a result of the confined atmosphere. If you don't have a center to your life - find one. Enlarge your faith. Strengthen your family. Do not, I repeat, do not become addicted to the scratchings of imbeciles constantly predicting doom or the imminent second coming in the columns and programs of the MSM (or wing-nut media, for that matter).
Go outside and enjoy the weekend.
You really should be asking Alec Baldwin
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Switzerland?
In 76 I had much the same thought. It was only the primary season, but I was quite certain that whoever the rats nominated would win that Nov. At the time, Kennedy looked very strong. My circumstances changed radically in late summer 76, so I stayed. Today, I’m much older and much less robust, so leaving is not an option for me. However, today I’m more angry than concerned as I was in 76.....I’m also armed.
In 1923, my Grandfather emigrated to the U.S. from Germany. In his hometown, it was more economical to burn a wheelbarrow full of cash than to spend it on firewood or coal.
He came to the U.S. and never looked back.
I have told this story to our son many times. I have added that, if life in the United States becomes so intolerable, and there is an alternative elsewhere on the planet, he is free to leave and never look back.
I pray this never comes to be.
Two words
Argen, tina!
While they don’t have the best Gubment there either, they got beautiful people, great steak(yes better than here) and if you get in early you will reap the rewards as the mass exodus of the USA starts.
Look, who here doesn’t know personally or hasn’t heard of people moving from the East/Left Coast to more rural areas in search of less hassle or more peaceful life. Less Gangsta’s and more people who believe in America still.
Eventually, the trash will catch up and move into the nice American towns all across the mid/southwest.
Just saying, life wouldn’t be that bad in Argentina as long as you beat the rush, and even if you don’t, life is good there.
I plan to take your advice. Thanks, and have a great one yourself.
The thought did cross my mind that my post sounded like some of these leftist hollywood types. But Baldwin threatened to leave if Bush was merely elected. I'm not threatening that. Maybe never. Just posing the question that if sane life here becomes extinct in a leftist-run totalitarian world, what would be our options?
Well said. I hope many others take the time to read your words.
It is significant that I came to this thread expecting the calmer, reasonable heads of FR to ease my mind... but instead found the stalwarts to be concerned as well. Like you and FWDude, and many others it seems, the realization is dawning, that we are the ones who must make a stand, to ensure the survival of the American ideal.
Tatt
It is about the sixth or seventh time I have read it...
I just happened to pick it up and begin reading right before the Libs started talking about nationalizing the refineries...talk about timing!
We moved to New Zealand thinking that it would be one of the safest places to live.
Wrong.
First, getting into New Zealand isn't easy. They don't have open borders and are very, very strict about how many people they let in.
It is a long approval process. But because we had family connections in the country, we got in.
Then we discovered the truth about national health care and taxes in New Zealand.
They do have National Health care. But before you arrive, you are advised to get your own private insurance. Because if you get sick and rely on national health care to take care of you, you'll be waiting in a very long line.
And to pay for national health care, taxes are extremely high. The Value Added Tax (a national sales tax), was approaching 50% on many imported goods, and 100% on imported autos.
And since not many items are manufactured in New Zealand, almost everything cost twice as much as in the US. (I paid close to $100,000 for a used Toyota Camry in New Zealand).
The climate is nice - if you like an coastal Oregon wet climate. But the south island gets pretty cold and damp during the winter. (We had penguins on our doorstep during the winter).
After a few years, I missed the US and moved back.
I discovered that there were plenty of small towns in the US that offered the kind of conservative lifestyle we were looking for.
It was easier to stay in the US, and just move to one of these towns. Which is exactly what we did.
When the Democommunists come to power we will be writting portions of “Atlas Shrugged” on chewing gum wrappers and secretly passing them from one person to another.
The 2000 election did it for me. At that point, I decided that a Democrat could never be my friend. They were either too stupid or evil. If the Democommunists come to power the following will happen:
*Voter fraud will increase. It will not be prosecuted and democratic judges will look the other way.
* The Democommunists will appoint communist judges.
* Through voter fraud the Democommunists will gain complete control of the Houses and Senates on both the state and federal levels. Overriding a veto will be impossible.
* All government workers will support the Democommunists this includes police. Remember how the INS cooperated with Clinton to kidnap Elian Gonzolas and had a party later?
* Private schools and homes schools will be banned.
Only two things would be in freedom's favor:
* Some very smart people in the military still stand by the Constitution. Some still take their pledge to defend the Constitution very seriously.
* Some red states might become refuges and places were freedom workers could regroup.
By the way....I recommend the book, “It Can't Happen Here” by Sinclair Lewis.
Just curious, what US town/area did you choose?
The best thing to do is to VOTE REPUBLICAN.
We have no choice but organize more effectively, and fight back relentlessly, loudly, passionately.
The court system remains the central battleground.
The educational system is the long term fight.
Jumpin’ in here. After spending the first 57 years of my life in NYC, I moved to North Central WV. There is not much work here, but I’m now retired so that is not a problem. If anything, it makes it more affordable to hire people to do things I’m unable to do.
Several people I know and know of have moved to Central and South America.
Maybe move somehwere in the mountains of Colorado?
I’ve begun thinking the same way in the last couple of years. It’s demoralizing that the concept of this great nation is being so casually cast aside by many, who have no clue of what the alternative is.
Anywhere in the world worth going to will likely not be should this country fail. The promising signs in Europe have yet to convince me totally.
The Greeks defended Western culture once, maybe that time is upon us again.
This topic interest me deeply ...
I’ve thought about moving to small town America but in 20 years those towns will probably be crawling with the gangs. Most of the small towns me and college friends came from are no longer places to raise a family. My wife is pushing for us to go to Eastern Europe as we both have some ancestry there. I’m thinking Montanna. I just don’t know and it’s that “I don’t know” that keeps me awake at night.
I agree...This topic can drive you insane.
I think being cognizant of it and taking steps for the future is important, but to agonize over it is no way to exist.
I hear you.
I keep trying to tell myself that hey, 20 years down the road, you’d probably be looking back at 2008 fondly, thinking those were the good old days.
” you’d probably be looking back at 2008 fondly, thinking those were the good old days. “
That is arguably the most depressing thought on this thread....
Isn’t it though? LOL.
I do know that I recently saw a couple articles that said 40 million Americans are eligible to gain citizenship in Europe. And that many of those people are looking into it actually buying passports and such for their kids in lieu of birthday gifts.
Other articles were detailing how some 10 million Americans were seriously considering moving out of the country.
I have personally heard of good people, real red-state Americans moving out of the US. So all of this has me thinking. I don’t know if it’s really feasible to see the US return to what it’s supposed to be. The liberals have done their damage. They’ve infected both parties.
I wouldn't read too much into that. I got citizenship of an EU state for my kids purely for the fact that threy'll then have the right to work anywhere within the EU when they're grown, giving them greater options in a competitive international market.
We chose a small town in Northwest Arkansas. Near the home offices of Walmart. Creates a extremely strong local economy, plenty of jobs, low cost of living.
Tucked in the mountains, we miss most of the tornados, have cooler summers, and lower humidity.
This little pocket of America has all the modern conveniences, without the ultra liberal social problems.
President Bush visited this area recently, and surprise, no pickets. He was cheered.
When looking for the ideal small town, find one with more churches than liquor stores, and you’ll be off to a good start.
You know that does seem to be the name of the game nowadays. That is trying to find hidden gems of great little towns with a SAFE, conservative atmosphere and modern conveniences. The problem though, is how long before these towns are discovered and then changed?
That’s something I grapple with. Who wants to hunt down these little towns, get maybe 10, 15 or 20 years out of them before you have to move again? Or maybe that’s just the hard facts. This is very important if you have kids.
My other thoughts are, you could probably spend most of the rest of your life in some little village in Europe without much issue. Though I know they have problems too but you don’t have the horrific crime and the Muzzie problem will be an issue in certain European countries and regions of those countries. ???
I got an idea:
How about we STOP SELLING OUR FACTORIES TO COMMUNISTS.
Just a thought.
Argie would be perfect would it not be for the politics of “resentment” that make the Obamacans look positively sane. Same goes for Uruguay.
I hear what you’re saying. I have ancestors that fought General Santa Anna. And others who’ve fought in other US Wars. But the America my grand-father grew up in is a different place compared to today’s. And my responsibility as a father and husband is to provide a safe place for my family to live. And I know my ancestors would expect to take care of my family. I just don’t feel safe any more. I live in one of the most conservative areas in Texas and I love my firearms but still, I don’t feel safe with my wife going to Walmart at night!
But while in Eastern Europe, I felt completely safe with her wandering around town. Heck, women there felt safe enough to leave their baby carriages outside the store door while they picked up some items. Unbelievable.
I used to be into tricked out AR-15s but face it if you have to defend yourself you’re in deep #@# even if you do. It’s just best to get away from it all. I’m just hoping others here can shed some light on this issue for me and my family. It’s a totally different story if you’re retired or don’t have kids at home. Your thoughts?
A lot of people in the US couldn't deal with a food shortage and survive. How would they survive or fight something worse?
My only thoughts are that I hope and pray that there are enough of “us” to win. I hope and pray that there are enough in the military who know to whom they owe their allegiance and not use their might against the true patriots. Patriotic citizens armed with AR-15s, etc will not be able to stand against our military if they are not with “us”.
I surely agree that the courts are the central battleground in the moment. Long term education is the key.
Marxism is our nation's **most** serious threat. It is **not** islamofascism! Schools are the Marxist's **most** important weapon.
The government schools can **not** be reformed. They are infested from top to bottom with Marxists and Useful Idiots. Also, **all** government schools are a First Amendment and freedom of conscience nightmare. It is impossible for any school to be politically, religiously, or culturally neutral. This is true for government schools as well.
*We must get out kids out of government schools
*We must organize with neighbors to elect representatives that favor vouchers and tax credits.
*We must SHUT the government schools DOWN!
*We must pressure our colleges and universities to reform. If they will not, then we must open new ones.
That’s pretty serious forward thinking. I admit I’ve pondered the same. But we just don’t have the numbers. The Dems have done a good job of importing tens of millions of new Dem voters. Then you have the mushy middle who votes according to which sound bites resonate with them. And then the lemmings who do what their pot-smoking college professors taught them. If you want to forward think this far, I think society overall will generally break down even more. Lots of gangs, and people just not following the law. Maybe a section out of the former US can be carved into America as the Founding Father’s knew it.
But for now I need to figure out the best thing to do for my family so where do I go?
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