Posted on 02/29/2008 9:17:34 PM PST by FairTaxWarrior
Will anyone please list why any good points of an Income Tax? Must be plenty of them from all the posters who apparently live to throw mud at consumption tax alternatives.
And to FlatHeads .... The Flat Income Tax is a 100% pure income tax. Most of you want to deny that, but it has all the flaws of any Income Tax.
I don’t like any federal tax on individuals or companies. I prefer elimination of all direct taxation of such by the feds. Shrink the federal government back to its constitutional limits. Let the feds levy a tax on each state, based on the number of congressmen each has and let the several sovereign states each decide how to raise the money.
FWIW, I got this in my e-mail inbox last week. Feel free to pick it apart..................
Fairtax calculation>? DOnt make me laugh.
Try opening your eyes to this farce. Fairtax is a crock, a total absolute crock. ITs wacked out nonsense. Its like those little stupid pills they used to sell to suckers, that supposedly let them use water in their gas tank.
Yes - its that stupid. I admit fairtax SOUNDS wonderful — if you don’t look too closely, if math doesn’t matter.
And this calculator shows exactly what I mean.
Notice — it doesnt ask how much rent you pay. Wanna know why? Rent is taxed.
Notice — it doesnt ask hom much car insurance you pay. Wanna know why? All insurance premiums are taxed.
That means your car insurance, health insurance, life insurance, all taxed at least 30% (It would be more like 60%, but lets pretend its 30%)
Notice it doesn’t as how much medical cost you have. Wanna know why? All medical cost — repeat — ALL — medical cost are taxed.
Gotta get cancer surgery and chemo? You could EASILY get a 50,000 TAX. Have your grandma in a nursing home? Thats taxed too - up to 30,000 tax a year.
Funny how they forgot to include those thing — huh?
YOu think its a co-incidence they didn’t include any of those things?
Fairtax is a crock. Most people would pay far MORE tax with this nonsense. And you could LITERALLY own more in TAXES than you make ALL YEAR if you have high medical cost. Thats right — if your insurance pays 100,000 for some accident or illness — YOU would be responsible for 30,000 in sales taxes.
Sure — you get your whole paycheck and even a prebate (so they say). ANd that would take care of things for many folks (though the math on that is wacky too)
But how the heck are the parents of a child with leukemia gonna pay these goons 70,000 in SALES tax? What if they only make 25K a year?
Funny how they don’t mention that.
Fairtax wont work — for a lot of reasons.
Another huge reason fairtax can’t work — it pretend to tax the government a high sales tax. Yes — just tax the GOVERNMENT.
Neal Boortz wrote on page 148 of the Fair Tax Book “ The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR TAXPAYER”.
Oh really? Which alternate universe are you from Neal?
If the government can pay a major part of its own taxes- - why not just have them pay it all, leave us alone?
Look at fairtaxabsurdity at blogspot dot com. Or any of the other sites that are calling this goofy idea out, exposing it as a complete and utter farce.
Yes, I should be more diplomatic. You might have been suckered into believing this nonsense, and get mad at me for exposing it. Well too bad. You should be mad at the con artist and goof balls that sold you this nutty wacked out idea.
This idea doesn’t slow down at stupid. IT goes right to insane. I’m sorry if you got fooled by it — be man enough to admit it, and go on.
Yes!!!!!
If only there was a party who believed in that!!!!
For those who have already paid income tax upon earnings and now are using that money for retirement, a national sales tax sucks...big time.
Uhhh, I like the Fair Tax. I love the flat tax. I also would love it if every American realized that Gubmint is not the solution to their problems. They control their own destiny.
I would also like to see an end to future tax paying citizens killed in the womb before they were born and replaced by 3rd world invaders to keep our population up and pay for SS entitlement programs. I want a Lamborghini Countach. I’ll settle for a BMW M3 convertible.
None of it, including your fair tax has a snowballs chance in Hell of passing.
I reject your premise, that because we’re against the “Fair” tax, that means we like the current tax system.
Getting rid of one horrible tax system and replacing it with another potentially horrible one isn’t going to get me to support either of them.
Wait a minute!! Do you mean that my drug supplier and my gardener who I pay in cash, won’t be able to escape these silly taxes? Damn!
Welcome to FR.
I recommended that plan to Dick Armey during a town hall meeting when he was my Representative. He told me I was “radical” :-) A badge of honor. He works with this outfit now, which I support - http://freedomworks.org/
Someone help me out on this. As I have heard the arguements pro and against the Fair Tax Ive come down on the Fair Tax side to a degree. What bothers me is the effect it MAY have on luxury goods. Remember the luxurury tax? Damn near wiped out several industries. Any comments?
A) The FT is a completely altruistic quest
B) The Govenrnment will magically loose it propensity to tinker
C) All the people you never trusted before will be completely trustworthy now
D) 30,000 Treasury Dept employees will magically disappear
E) You will “Git Yer Hole Paychex”
F) Tax rates never go up
G) Pay rates never go down
H) People just love double digit sales tax rates
I) Used food and personal items are good things
J) Social engineering will magically disappear
K) The rich don’t pay any/enough taxes
L) Prebates and Prefunds aren’t really welfare
M) Retirees should take a hosing for no good reason
N) Getting $77 worth of goods for $100 is OK with you
O) Paying 30% tax on medical care is a great idea
P) You believe the Government should tell you what a “necessity” is
Q) Bureaucrats will always know what the "right" poverty rate is
R) The rest of the modern world is clueless about tax policy
S) Good tax policy can be pro-re-gressive depending on the argument at the time
T) Revenue neutrality is more important than spending control
U) Talk Show Hosts are the best brain trust for tax policy
V) There is no "wizard behind the curtain" but those three Texans..
W) $20 million plus only buys "the truth"
X) Asking tough questions makes you a "Marxist"
Y) Asking tough questions makes you guilty of "spreading lies and disinformation"
Z) Debate only requires insulting and attacking people who ask tough questions
AA) There’s no such thing as a black market.
AB) Living like a hermit is the best way to beat the taxman.
Ac) Companies will immediately deduct all the embedded taxes from what they sell.
AD) Pretzyl logic is your friend.
Same old double-negative line of questions...
“Which works better for you, Fire or flood ??”
Nobody likes it. But I hate being constantly LIED to about what the fairtax does.
Well most "rich" people have structured it so they don't have any income so they like it because it is a tax system they don't have to take part in.
Don't worry. They'll die off soon enough for the rest of us to enjoy the benefits of an ethereal, living, malleable, adjustable, ephemeral new tax system. Just read the notes. (translated to: Just drink. That berry flavor won't hurt you)
That new “bogusberry” flavor...
Your thesis is faulty. We don’t like the income tax system, you can consider that a given. However, if the nation is to change =the tax system, we will only get one shot at it.
We are convinced that the FT is NOT even close to good enough for that one time only shot at changing the tax system. Not even close.
Also, for whatever tax system we do end up changing to, there must be a well thought out transition phase, because many, many taxpayers have planned their whole economic lives around the intricacies of the IR statutes, and if a sudden change causes many of those plans to turn into dust, the change will not work.
So, your key is to think beyond slogans and platitudes, to the lives of real people whose economic lives will be turned upside down by such a change.
Will anyone please list why any good points of an Income Tax? Must be plenty of them from all the posters who apparently live to throw mud at consumption tax alternativesThere's more than one? List them.
Developed by the FairTax trinity at the cost of 20 million dollars.
The FairTaxers would encourage us all to become freegans
http://freegan.info/
The FairTaxers would have us all freegans
http://freegan.info/
Who really is this masked man...FTW
The top 1% of income earners pay 40% of all income taxes.
That’s $360B out of their total income of $2.2T, which means they paid an effective income tax rate of 16%.
That’s higher than any other group of taxpayers.
That’s an awful lot of money for you to say “they don’t take part in” it.
The only way anybody can claim the wealthy pay a lower tax rate than the middle class is by mistakenly counting FICA as an income tax.
Here are a lucky seven for you:
1) A Flat Tax requires no new mechanisms to collect, eliminating all deductions/credits/exemptions means simple withholding, no tax return filing, and elimination of IRS abuses — the FairTax requires collection from retailers of services, doctors, lawers, hospitals, etc. that don’t currently charge sales taxes in most states and would suffer intrusive audits under the FairTax while having to figure out their taxes 12 times a year.
2) A Flat Tax ensures nobody gets a free ride — the FairTax prebate means people spending up to poverty level become non-taxpayers, and even up to relatively high incomes pay essentially nothing after taking the accrued SS/M benefit credits into account.
3) A Flat Tax would pay for General Fund expenditures ONLY, and not tax non-wage income to pay for the SS/M Ponzi scheme — the FairTax would have high earners continue paying into SS/M on all spending, even though their SS/M benefits would be no larger than they are today, and it would have retirees paying from savings back into SS/M while adding nothing to their benefits.
4) A Flat Tax can be collected from everyone that earns money in the US by withholding at employers and financial institutions — the FairTax would collect only based on money SPENT here, which means the wealthy could still earn their money here but pay no taxes on it because they’d spend it elsewhere.
5) A truly Flat Tax on income only needs to be 10% to raise the same revenue as today, because it doesn’t make the mistake of trying to untax poor people while taxing the wealthy to pay for the poor’s SS/ benefits as the FairTax at 23% attemps to do.
6) Evasion of a 10% Flat Tax is a lot less tempting than evading a 23% consumption tax that allows legal avoidance by simply spending outside the country.
7) A Flat Tax of 10% would only be necessary for individuals, not businesses, so most of the tax compliance cost reductions promised by the FairTax are accomplished by eliminating income taxes from businesses.
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