Education Drop-Out ?'s (Arizona)

Parents live in too much fear of their own children.

I see this so much today that it's scary what we are giving to the future. My boy is 14 and my girl is 11 and I get to witness first hand what is going on with them and their friends. Some parents just can not say no and live their lives as their children being all that is important even if that means raising spoiled brats. My kids are far from perfect. I still have a long way to go. However they are decent children and I do not worry YET about them being reckless. Parents can not be friends with their children. They can be friendly of course but not friends.

No, I am not giving her too much power but the way the law is written, the student can make the decision without the parent(s).

I think that is what is ridiculous.

I have stated my reasons and there are a lot of them but they said if they go there, they will soon drop out. Fat chance of that happening.

Just wait until I present the list and then we shall see if they are willing to work full-time (no car!).

I have to say that even though many raise their kids properly, the kid will still go out and do something you don't approve of.

My son just got his ears pierced without my permission. He is a teen and I told him no when he asked but he did it anyway.

There is a lot to talk to kids about. And the way many of these girls talk, we would never think twice of speaking/saying some of these things in front of parents.

I am disappointed in the gutter mouths I have come across. And I let them know they are not to speak like that in my house. It's a constant taking the Lord's name in vain, the "F" word is every other word................

>I have to say that even though many raise their kids properly, the kid will still go out and do something you don't approve of.

My son just got his ears pierced without my permission. He is a teen and I told him no when he asked but he did it anyway. <

Yes they will but there should be consequences that are memorable. For example when they do something like that you say "I see that you feel that you are old enough to make adult decisions. Well adults have freedom to make their own decisions but they also have responsibilites too.

Therefore, since you are an adult, I will no longer provide you with transportation, toothpaste, free room and board, car insurance and clothing. Adults provide those for themselves. And since you are an adult if those ears get infected and need medical treatment you will be paying for it. So you better get yourself a good job.

My oldest daughter did not get her driver's license until she was 18 because she hadn't proved to me she was responsible. And we never provided them with a car and they had to pay for their own insurance.

If kids are going out and doing these type of things consistently then they apparantly have no fear of any consequences.

Don't get me started on auto insurance. My son has his permit but I am putting off getting the license as it would cost $170 per month just to add him. No way--not until he has a job and pays for it himself. Not to mention that he will not use my car at all.

The thought of my 2000 Le Sabre getting totaled is enough to keep the kids locked up until they are 21. I can't afford getting my car totaled.

>Don't get me started on auto insurance. My son has his permit but I am putting off getting the license as it would cost $170 per month just to add him. No way--not until he has a job and pays for it himself. Not to mention that he will not use my car at all. <

There is nothing wrong with having him pay for the extra car insurance cost. They will tend to drive more carefully when it is their own money and property at stake. My main concern was the kid's safety first and foremost. Driving is a big responsibility. Not only can carelessness cause them grave harm but they are responsible for the lives of others as well. Having them be financially responsible for the privelege of driving drives that home (no pun intended).

Parents these days give their kids so much without them having to earn any of it that it makes the parents like you and me who are tougher with their kids almost look abusive doesn't it? It's not easy raising kids the old fashioned way these days. There are alot of pressures for both the kids and the parents.

I think you have a better chance to win the battle if you either home school or keep the kids in private school. If I was raising kids today that is probably what I would do.

When I was in high school back in the 70's, I saw where parents were giving their kids new sports cars right and left. I was amazed.

Not me. I had to go out and work for it!!

Conservative Granny, are you sure we weren't separated at birth?

I'm only just starting my third decade of life, so it's not like I'm so very far away from my teens. The amount of caving I see from adults around me is really heartbreaking.

My brother (18 months younger than I am) came home with a pierced ear one day in high school. My dad congratulated him on his choice, and told him to enjoy it for the next 24 hours, because if it was still visible at that time the next day, it would be removed for him. It was removed.

We paid for our own insurance costs, gas, upkeep, for the privelege of sharing the family van (and coordinating schedules with all seven siblings, and mom. If you wanted to drive, you asked Mom what she needed done in town, and you did it, or you didn't get the keys.)

On school options, we did have some choice. I basically did home-study. One younger brother pulled out of public school as a freshman, and did home-study, finishing all his high school course work in about 15 weeks, which then freed up his time for studying music.

Everyone younger than me had strict curfews--one sister neglected to call home to request an extension to visit a friend who was honestly in the hospital (which extension would have been granted without a fuss), and was placed on restriction one day for each minute she was past curfew. After that, her friends respected the curfew, and made sure things were finished in time to get home before it.

All this probably makes my parents sound like ogres. They weren't at all. They set reasonable boundaries, and required us to show respect in the matters of using family resources, and respect in personal relationships. Any consequences tended to be natural ones: if you're disrespectful of Mom's nighttime rest by staying out late, you'll get to practice it by staying in for a long period of time. If you're disrespectful by using up the gas in the car and not replacing it, you'll be have a greater opportunity to excercise by biking the 6 miles to town instead.

I fully support squashing foolish rebellion. We teach our kids (the oldest is only 10) that rebellion for foolish or selfish reasons is just rather stupid and pointless. If she has pressing concerns about some rule or standard we've set, we're open to hearing them. If her points are sufficient, we're willing to revisit a rule or standard. But our home is not a democracy, and the kids don't get to set out their demands and expect to receive.

But then, I'm a young mom who expects civilized behavior from my kids. I've given natural consequences right down to grounding them from sitting on any chairs or couches in the house for up to a week, because they were being abusive to the dining room chairs. They've been grounded from speaking to one another if they've been arguing. They've been "grounded" to only speaking in a silly British accent if they've been struggling with using a polite tone of voice. They've gone without socks as a consequence of not getting their things to the laundry. By allowing them to experience such things NOW, I'm hoping that by the time they're teens, they'll see (as I did) how to get along in the world with as few unpleasant consequences as possible, and be willing to make beneficial choices.

I'm sure I was just a bit of an odd duck, as I've never been terribly peer-dependent. Does the 16yo actually think she'll have social time with friends in their drug-ridden public school? If it's social time she's wanting, then encourage her to find a good after-school activity and invite her public school friends to join in. Service activities are useful, and give kids a reason to feel good about themselves. Calling the bluff on poor choices (like choosing a school based on it's "social" scene) by letting her know the FULL consequences of such choices is right on target, in my opinion. Be prepared to follow through with the natural consequences if you allow her to make this choice. Personally, I'd ask her for a list of the reasons why she thinks it would be a good idea--for input ONLY, not that it will dictate YOUR parental choice. If she wants to get into "the law allows" situations, let her know the law allows you to provide the basics of food, shelter, and clothing, and that you're prepared to reduce her living to the basics, should she choose to defy and dishonor her parents. Bread, water, and a good multivitamin count as "food." A stripped-bare room counts as "shelter". Three changes of clothing and one pair of shoes, all in good repair, are technically "clothing."

I think we WERE separated at birth! I didn't think there was anyone left that believed in the natural consequences way of disciplining children.

It works very well for children that are particularly oppositional too because the fault when things go wrong is all theirs as they made the decision. The first couple of times they have to experience the results of their decisions they are quite angry and throw a fit.

You must always make sure the consequences are set in advance and they know what they are. With some kids who pull "You never said that" you may have to put them in writing. And you must always follow through on any consequence that you set and you don't say much when they suffer the consequence except "well, you chose to do X and I told you that Y was going to happen". Then you walk away.

Another plus is that you can start using it at a very young age. How many times have you heard parents saying in the McDonalds "If you don't stop that we are going home" but then they stay and let the kids play even though the kid is acting up?

My kids knew that if I said "one more time and we are leaving" we WERE leaving if they acted up again.

Natural consequences works great for older kids too because they like to feel that they are part of making choices. They learn that if they choose wrong, something bad happens.