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Education Drop-Out ?'s (Arizona)

Posted on 02/26/2007 9:36:07 AM PST by hsmomx3

I have told my daughter that she will continue to attend the school she currently goes to the following school year.

She said no, she wants to go to the local public high school because many of her neighborhood friends go there.

I told her no, she will go to where I tell her.

She seems to think that she can drop out of school as a result of my choice!!

I don't think she can do that so easily.

Does anyone know how that works in Arizona? Do parents have the ultimate authority? I read that a student can drop out at age 16 but I have never found where parents have a say.


TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: az; dropout; education
She is nuts if she thinks she can do this!! Rebellion alert!!
1 posted on 02/26/2007 9:36:10 AM PST by hsmomx3
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To: hsmomx3

Is she 18? She might have a choice if so.

If you lived in Texas, she'd have to go to whatever public school your home is zoned for.


2 posted on 02/26/2007 9:37:49 AM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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To: hsmomx3

If she is 16, why not let her go to a public school? It's not as if it's going to ruin her in 2 years. You've done well to keep her out of the public schools for so long, and you will see the fruits of that later in her life.


3 posted on 02/26/2007 9:39:39 AM PST by LtdGovt ("Where government moves in, community retreats and civil society disintegrates" -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: hsmomx3
Arizona truancy laws.
4 posted on 02/26/2007 9:39:43 AM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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To: Xenalyte

No, 16 going on 17 in the fall.


5 posted on 02/26/2007 9:40:16 AM PST by hsmomx3
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To: LtdGovt

Because the high school up the street is a real gang and drug type school which is hard to believe in this neighborhood.

Hungarian Gypsy tipped me off to this some time ago, how it is the drug capital of the northern part of our town. I have never seen this but this school has one wall painted for the Mexican's where they hang out, another for the Black kids where they hangout, etc. And one of their friends was telling me that she knows of 14 freshman who are pregnant at this school.

They are getting a far better education where they currently attend.


6 posted on 02/26/2007 9:43:41 AM PST by hsmomx3
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To: hsmomx3

I understand why you're concerned. But you should be very careful with teenagers. You know how they are, if you tell them that "she will continue to attend the school she currently goes to the following school year", it will just make them more adamant. At this age, they just want to 'show' that they're independent. Therefore, I suggest that you don't try to force the issue, rather, try reasoning with her. Give her the reasons why you're so concerned. If that doesn't work, you may try to force her to go to her current school, if possible.


7 posted on 02/26/2007 9:48:30 AM PST by LtdGovt ("Where government moves in, community retreats and civil society disintegrates" -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: hsmomx3

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. My oldest daughter just turned 17 a couple of weeks ago. Ugh is the kindest thing I can say. I hope you are all able to work it out.


8 posted on 02/26/2007 9:53:40 AM PST by USMCWife6869
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To: USMCWife6869

It's a tough, tough decision. A long time ago, I was told that I was the absolute dictator when it came to health, safety and morality with my kids until they turned 18. They were only 2 and 3 when I got that advice. Along the way, we would tell them, no, this is a safety issue, we get the call or whatever.

At 16, it's a lot more difficult to draw that line.

Fortunately, ours are now grown.


9 posted on 02/26/2007 10:01:34 AM PST by trimom
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To: hsmomx3
I have no knowledge of Arizona, but in WV and PA, you can quit at 16 and not be a truant.

What is the problem with the school she wants to attend? When I was 16 (a LONG time ago,) my parents insisted that I continue to attend the private school where I was a day student. Since I had a car and a driver's license, I enrolled myself in a public school where my friends went without permission from my parents. When my old school would have started, a couple of weeks later than the public one, I was forced to tell my parents. My father then relented and allowed me to stay in the new school because I threatened to quit school altogether if they wouldn't allow it. Yes, I was a spoiled brat and Daddy's little girl, but I did finish and went on to college and law school as well.

10 posted on 02/26/2007 10:08:19 AM PST by penowa (NO more Bushes; NO more Clintons EVER!)
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To: penowa

Well, lots of gangs, a lot more drugs, lots of pregnant girls, can dress like a gang-banger, etc.

Now, I'm not too opinionated, am I?


11 posted on 02/26/2007 10:10:25 AM PST by hsmomx3
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To: hsmomx3

This worked for me:

My son was going to one of the finest (and most expensive) private schools in the area, but he wanted to quit because it was too hard and go to the local public school with all his friends (similar to your situation)

So I made a list of all the local schools and their relative value in terms of results and education success, in decending order... and I asked him to pick just how stupid he would like to be when he graduated.

I then explained the next 40 or 50 years of life AFTER high school was the most important thing compared to the next 2 years and the wouldn't a wise person choose to go out into the world as best prepared as he could be?

He seemed to see the light, and it worked in my case... I hope you have similar success


If your child was a boy I would relate how I convinced my step son of the error of his ways using the 'hot girls' list...


12 posted on 02/26/2007 10:11:53 AM PST by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help)
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To: hsmomx3

Now I understand why you're worried. Are her neighborhood friends that attend there into drugs, etc.? If not, why do you think she would get into trouble if she went there? I spent my last 2 yrs. of high school learning zip because I'd already had the same things in 7th and 8th grade at the private school, but it didn't do anything but bore me and make me read books other than my text books in class.


13 posted on 02/26/2007 10:15:49 AM PST by penowa (NO more Bushes; NO more Clintons EVER!)
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To: penowa

"And law school as well."



Hush, don't tell anyone, think of your reputation!


14 posted on 02/26/2007 10:17:00 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (BUAIDH NO BAS, JUST SAY NO TO RINO!)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

I can honestly say I have NEVER practiced law (except for myself or family.) I just used my legal education in jobs where it was extremely helpful and saved consulting with an outside attorney.


15 posted on 02/26/2007 10:21:40 AM PST by penowa (NO more Bushes; NO more Clintons EVER!)
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To: penowa

Yes--to the drug dealer question.

I have brainstormed and printed out a list with a variety of topics for my child and we will go over it and discuss the schooling as well.


16 posted on 02/26/2007 11:21:36 AM PST by hsmomx3
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To: LtdGovt
I caved into my daughters demand that she attend the public high school for the last two years, after attending Catholic schools for her entire education. What a mistake!

I recently saw the movie, "Mean Girls" and it was so close to the mark that I got the chills. What ultimately happened was that I became the notorious "Mean Mom" that every child has nightmares about; I spent most of those two years in front of that school. My daughter spent a fortune on the right clothes, hair, makeup, etc. Guess whose fortune that was? It was likely the most expensive and time consuming chapter of my life, and I see it as a big fat mistake all the way around. I caved into a 16 yr. old and paid dearly. She did OK and went on to college, but it would have been so much easier if I had stood my ground.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I cannot say what is best for hsmx3's daughter, but what really helped the most in our situation was the fact that I forced my daughter to always have an after school job. Her ice cream parlor job was a lifesaver. For me!!
17 posted on 02/26/2007 11:21:51 AM PST by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: hsmomx3

I don't envy you your job as the sort of things that can happen today to kids is much different than when I was a teenager. My parents were protective of me. The private school was a boarding and day school taught by nuns and attached to a cloistered convent, and we were not Catholic. They were more concerned about the type of education I would receive at a public school than of bad social influences.I hope you have luck in reasoning with her and I hope she is not as headstrong as I was at 16.


18 posted on 02/26/2007 11:33:25 AM PST by penowa (NO more Bushes; NO more Clintons EVER!)
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To: ishabibble

I went to public school up to and including 9th grade. I had some sort of major mental change and told my mom I wish to go to Catholic HS starting in 10th grade. Go figure. Best 3 years of my life and now at 40 I am still best friends with the 3 girls I met in 10th grade at the Catholic HS. I consider them sisters. In addition I met my husband to be in 9th grade at the public school. We hung out as friends throughout HS and finally started dating when we were 21. Now married for 15 years, 2 kids. He paid his own way through college. He is very successful in his career despite public school. His family just could not afford the options I got.


19 posted on 02/26/2007 11:40:39 AM PST by alisasny ( RUDY 2008)
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To: hsmomx3

I have raised 3 children all successful so I hope you consider my thoughts and opinions valuable. One of these children was a problem child. Extremely rebellious, oppositional etc. Very hard to raise.

At about the same age she announced to me one day that she was sick of school and not going anymore. I told her that apparantly she believed that she was an adult capable of making her own decisions and I therefore was going to start treating her like an adult. She was very happy for about 30 seconds.

I explained that as an adult she was now responsible for herself including supporting herself. She was welcome to still live with us but she would have to start paying room and board as once one finishes school in our home we consider them an adult. That means I am no longer responsible for buying your clothing, toothpaste, bath towels and a place to live for free.

If she was able to support herself and take care of herself without finishing school then I would support her decision and independence. I wasn't going to argue with her. I just told her to let me know what her decision was. She went to school the next day.

In our house until you are able to support yourself I am footing the bill for you and therefore you will do as I say. You are giving your daughter too much power. Parents live in too much fear of their own children.

Once she finishes high school she can make her own decisions. If she chooses to go to college then give her more choices. If she is paying her own way like mine did, they chose the school and we helped them out. But we let them know that once they were finished they had to find a job and support themselves. They all had jobs while in school and lived at home for free during breaks.

They all are married, successful adults and we never had major problems with them. The daughter I am talking about went on to earn two master's degrees and a PHD. We are very close to our children and have great relationships with them.

Your daughter is still to young to make these types of important decisions. While she may want to have some input the final decision has to be yours as you are the adult and the parent and know what is best for her at this point. She may be mad at you for awhile but believe me, she'll get over it.

Children think they are adults because they reach a certain age or because they say they are. Being an adult comes with corresponding responsibilites, none of which at her age she will be able to fulfill. She will quickly realize that she cannot take care of herself yet and she will have to do things your way. Yes, she will be angry. So what? It won't be the first time nor the last.

Take my advice for what you think it is worth and good luck to you and your daughter! Someday you will be walking her down the aisle proud as can be and all this will be a bad memory. Believe me!


20 posted on 02/26/2007 11:47:49 AM PST by conservativegranny
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To: conservativegranny
Parents live in too much fear of their own children.

I see this so much today that it's scary what we are giving to the future. My boy is 14 and my girl is 11 and I get to witness first hand what is going on with them and their friends. Some parents just can not say no and live their lives as their children being all that is important even if that means raising spoiled brats. My kids are far from perfect. I still have a long way to go. However they are decent children and I do not worry YET about them being reckless. Parents can not be friends with their children. They can be friendly of course but not friends.

21 posted on 02/26/2007 11:59:37 AM PST by alisasny ( RUDY 2008)
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To: conservativegranny

No, I am not giving her too much power but the way the law is written, the student can make the decision without the parent(s).

I think that is what is ridiculous.

I have stated my reasons and there are a lot of them but they said if they go there, they will soon drop out. Fat chance of that happening.

Just wait until I present the list and then we shall see if they are willing to work full-time (no car!).


22 posted on 02/26/2007 1:27:54 PM PST by hsmomx3
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To: alisasny

I have to say that even though many raise their kids properly, the kid will still go out and do something you don't approve of.

My son just got his ears pierced without my permission. He is a teen and I told him no when he asked but he did it anyway.

There is a lot to talk to kids about. And the way many of these girls talk, we would never think twice of speaking/saying some of these things in front of parents.

I am disappointed in the gutter mouths I have come across. And I let them know they are not to speak like that in my house. It's a constant taking the Lord's name in vain, the "F" word is every other word................


23 posted on 02/26/2007 1:30:57 PM PST by hsmomx3
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To: hsmomx3

>I have to say that even though many raise their kids properly, the kid will still go out and do something you don't approve of.

My son just got his ears pierced without my permission. He is a teen and I told him no when he asked but he did it anyway. <

Yes they will but there should be consequences that are memorable. For example when they do something like that you say "I see that you feel that you are old enough to make adult decisions. Well adults have freedom to make their own decisions but they also have responsibilites too.

Therefore, since you are an adult, I will no longer provide you with transportation, toothpaste, free room and board, car insurance and clothing. Adults provide those for themselves. And since you are an adult if those ears get infected and need medical treatment you will be paying for it. So you better get yourself a good job.

My oldest daughter did not get her driver's license until she was 18 because she hadn't proved to me she was responsible. And we never provided them with a car and they had to pay for their own insurance.

If kids are going out and doing these type of things consistently then they apparantly have no fear of any consequences.


24 posted on 02/26/2007 3:09:20 PM PST by conservativegranny
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To: conservativegranny

Don't get me started on auto insurance. My son has his permit but I am putting off getting the license as it would cost $170 per month just to add him. No way--not until he has a job and pays for it himself. Not to mention that he will not use my car at all.

The thought of my 2000 Le Sabre getting totaled is enough to keep the kids locked up until they are 21. I can't afford getting my car totaled.


25 posted on 02/26/2007 8:02:18 PM PST by hsmomx3
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To: hsmomx3

>Don't get me started on auto insurance. My son has his permit but I am putting off getting the license as it would cost $170 per month just to add him. No way--not until he has a job and pays for it himself. Not to mention that he will not use my car at all. <

There is nothing wrong with having him pay for the extra car insurance cost. They will tend to drive more carefully when it is their own money and property at stake. My main concern was the kid's safety first and foremost. Driving is a big responsibility. Not only can carelessness cause them grave harm but they are responsible for the lives of others as well. Having them be financially responsible for the privelege of driving drives that home (no pun intended).

Parents these days give their kids so much without them having to earn any of it that it makes the parents like you and me who are tougher with their kids almost look abusive doesn't it? It's not easy raising kids the old fashioned way these days. There are alot of pressures for both the kids and the parents.

I think you have a better chance to win the battle if you either home school or keep the kids in private school. If I was raising kids today that is probably what I would do.


26 posted on 02/27/2007 9:39:27 AM PST by conservativegranny
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To: conservativegranny

When I was in high school back in the 70's, I saw where parents were giving their kids new sports cars right and left. I was amazed.

Not me. I had to go out and work for it!!


27 posted on 02/27/2007 5:25:29 PM PST by hsmomx3
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To: conservativegranny

Conservative Granny, are you sure we weren't separated at birth?

I'm only just starting my third decade of life, so it's not like I'm so very far away from my teens. The amount of caving I see from adults around me is really heartbreaking.

My brother (18 months younger than I am) came home with a pierced ear one day in high school. My dad congratulated him on his choice, and told him to enjoy it for the next 24 hours, because if it was still visible at that time the next day, it would be removed for him. It was removed.

We paid for our own insurance costs, gas, upkeep, for the privelege of sharing the family van (and coordinating schedules with all seven siblings, and mom. If you wanted to drive, you asked Mom what she needed done in town, and you did it, or you didn't get the keys.)

On school options, we did have some choice. I basically did home-study. One younger brother pulled out of public school as a freshman, and did home-study, finishing all his high school course work in about 15 weeks, which then freed up his time for studying music.

Everyone younger than me had strict curfews--one sister neglected to call home to request an extension to visit a friend who was honestly in the hospital (which extension would have been granted without a fuss), and was placed on restriction one day for each minute she was past curfew. After that, her friends respected the curfew, and made sure things were finished in time to get home before it.

All this probably makes my parents sound like ogres. They weren't at all. They set reasonable boundaries, and required us to show respect in the matters of using family resources, and respect in personal relationships. Any consequences tended to be natural ones: if you're disrespectful of Mom's nighttime rest by staying out late, you'll get to practice it by staying in for a long period of time. If you're disrespectful by using up the gas in the car and not replacing it, you'll be have a greater opportunity to excercise by biking the 6 miles to town instead.

I fully support squashing foolish rebellion. We teach our kids (the oldest is only 10) that rebellion for foolish or selfish reasons is just rather stupid and pointless. If she has pressing concerns about some rule or standard we've set, we're open to hearing them. If her points are sufficient, we're willing to revisit a rule or standard. But our home is not a democracy, and the kids don't get to set out their demands and expect to receive.

But then, I'm a young mom who expects civilized behavior from my kids. I've given natural consequences right down to grounding them from sitting on any chairs or couches in the house for up to a week, because they were being abusive to the dining room chairs. They've been grounded from speaking to one another if they've been arguing. They've been "grounded" to only speaking in a silly British accent if they've been struggling with using a polite tone of voice. They've gone without socks as a consequence of not getting their things to the laundry. By allowing them to experience such things NOW, I'm hoping that by the time they're teens, they'll see (as I did) how to get along in the world with as few unpleasant consequences as possible, and be willing to make beneficial choices.

I'm sure I was just a bit of an odd duck, as I've never been terribly peer-dependent. Does the 16yo actually think she'll have social time with friends in their drug-ridden public school? If it's social time she's wanting, then encourage her to find a good after-school activity and invite her public school friends to join in. Service activities are useful, and give kids a reason to feel good about themselves. Calling the bluff on poor choices (like choosing a school based on it's "social" scene) by letting her know the FULL consequences of such choices is right on target, in my opinion. Be prepared to follow through with the natural consequences if you allow her to make this choice. Personally, I'd ask her for a list of the reasons why she thinks it would be a good idea--for input ONLY, not that it will dictate YOUR parental choice. If she wants to get into "the law allows" situations, let her know the law allows you to provide the basics of food, shelter, and clothing, and that you're prepared to reduce her living to the basics, should she choose to defy and dishonor her parents. Bread, water, and a good multivitamin count as "food." A stripped-bare room counts as "shelter". Three changes of clothing and one pair of shoes, all in good repair, are technically "clothing."


28 posted on 02/28/2007 10:03:33 AM PST by Missus (We're not trying to overpopulate the world, we're just trying to outnumber the idiots.)
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To: Missus

I think we WERE separated at birth! I didn't think there was anyone left that believed in the natural consequences way of disciplining children.

It works very well for children that are particularly oppositional too because the fault when things go wrong is all theirs as they made the decision. The first couple of times they have to experience the results of their decisions they are quite angry and throw a fit.

You must always make sure the consequences are set in advance and they know what they are. With some kids who pull "You never said that" you may have to put them in writing. And you must always follow through on any consequence that you set and you don't say much when they suffer the consequence except "well, you chose to do X and I told you that Y was going to happen". Then you walk away.

Another plus is that you can start using it at a very young age. How many times have you heard parents saying in the McDonalds "If you don't stop that we are going home" but then they stay and let the kids play even though the kid is acting up?

My kids knew that if I said "one more time and we are leaving" we WERE leaving if they acted up again.

Natural consequences works great for older kids too because they like to feel that they are part of making choices. They learn that if they choose wrong, something bad happens.


29 posted on 02/28/2007 12:21:35 PM PST by conservativegranny
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