Pastors Who 'Vilified' Islam Would Choose Jail Over Apology

Free speech and freedom of religion have been guillotined in Victoria (well, in Australia actually! ) Penalty handed down in Catch the Fire Ministries religious vilification case Judge Higgins announced the 'remedy' or 'penalty' at a hearing in the Victorian and Civil and Administrative Tribunal at 10 am this morning (Wednesday 22 June 2005). Judge Higgins basically endorsed all the requests made by the Islamic Council of Victoria at the penalty hearing on 2-3 may with the exception of placing a link on the Catch the Fire Ministries website to the Islamic Council of Victoria for visitors to the CTFM website to obtain the ICV's descriptions of Islam and their view of the complaint.

The full Orders of the Tribunal as well as the 'Annexure' or statement that the Tribunal is asking the pastors to publish as described in summary below are in the attached document (2 pages) and in the actual pdf document from VCAT JUST published on the VCAT website (second document below).Judge Higgins ordered

* That a statement that was submitted by the ICV - summarising the findings of Judge Higgins against Catch the Fire Ministries - be published in the Catch the Fire Ministries newsletter by 31 August 2005.

This statement had two or three minor clarifying changes (eg: Giving Richard Braidich's full name and stating he is American) but was basically identical to the one proposed by the ICV in May at the penalty hearing.

* That the same statement be placed in advertisements in The Age and the Herald Sun on a Saturday and a Monday over TWO consecutive weeks by 31 August.

* That within 30 days the respondents make an undertaking to the Tribunal that they will not make, publish or distribute in Victoria any statements or information that have the same or similar effect as those found by the tribunal to have breached the Act.

Judge Higgins noted, in his statement before reading his 'Orders', that the complainants had submitted that if an undertaking was not given then Judge Higgins should grant an injunction to stop such comments being made.

Judge Higgins said it had been noted during the penalty hearing that an undertaking was not offered at that time.

Then Judge Higgins said "I have given this matter careful thought and I have determined that I propose to give the respondents an opportunity to re-think their position, given the findings of the Tribunal and, should they indicate upon reflection that they will not give the undertakings, then it will be necessary for further orders to be made."

Judge Higgins then made the same order applicable to all other States and territories in Victoria.

* Judge Higgins made a order releasing the parties and their lawyers from 'the usual implied undertaking' not to use evidence and documents from the case.

(CNSNews.com) - Two evangelical pastors in Australia convicted of vilifying Muslims say they will go to prison rather than obey a judge's order to apologize.

A tribunal judge in the state of Victoria on Wednesday instructed Danny Nalliah and Daniel Scot to apologize for their comments by publishing a prescribed statement in newspapers and on the website of Nalliah's ministry, Catch the Fire.

They would also have to promise never to repeat them -- or any other comments which would have the "same or similar effect" -- anywhere in Australia or on the Internet.

Failure to do so would make it "necessary for further orders to be made," said Judge Michael Higgins of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT), a body that operates like a normal court of law.

In a landmark ruling last December, Higgins found that the two had vilified Muslims at a seminar on Islam and in articles published in a newsletter and on the Internet.

He said Scot, a Pakistan-born pastor who addressed the seminar, had done so "in a way which is essentially hostile, demeaning and derogatory of all Muslim people, their god, Allah, the prophet Mohammed and in general Muslim religious beliefs and practices."

The offending statement included the view that the Koran promotes violence and killing; that Muslims lie; and that Muslims intend to take over Australia and declare it an Islamic state.

Higgins also found that an article by Nalliah in a Catch the Fire newsletter contained statements "likely to incite a feeling of hatred towards Muslims," including the claim that Muslim refugees were being granted visas to Australia while Christians who suffer persecution in Islamic nations were refused refugee visas.

Nalliah and Scot had argued that the intention was to help Christians understand Islam, based on references to the Koran and other Islamic texts.

The case against the pastors resulted from a complaint by the state's Islamic Council. It was the first of its kind to be brought under Victoria's controversial Racial and Religious Tolerance Act, which came into effect in early 2002.

Shortly after the order was handed down at the VCAT chambers in Melbourne Wednesday, Nalliah told Cybercast News Service that he and Scot would go to prison rather than comply.

"We have from the beginning said this law is a foul law. And it's under the law that the judge has brought the judgment," he said. "Complying with the judge's judgment makes it clear that we respect the law - but we don't respect the law."

Asked whether he really expected that such a stand could land them in prison, Nalliah said they were taking the position because they wanted to see the law abolished.

"But the repercussions, as I understand, could result in the judge saying 'you'll have to go into jail for a season because you rejected my judgment.' We are willing to face it if that's the case."

The two have appealed to the Supreme Court.
'Throttling free speech'

The case, which has taken more than 20 months to finalize, has drawn international attention.

At one point in 2003 the Australian Embassy in Washington was flooded with letters from concerned Americans, and was hard pressed to explain that the case was being heard by a court-like tribunal operating under a law passed by one state's Labor government, not Australia's federal government.

In Britain, opponents of a religious hatred bill currently under consideration have cited the Australian episode in their campaign against the legislation.

Although churches in Australia have been divided over the Catch the Fire case, an increasing number are backing a drive to have the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act repealed.

Bill Muehlenberg of the Australian Family Association, a leading campaigner against the law, called Wednesday's ruling a sinister turn in a supposedly democratic nation.

"It may not be people bursting into our churches with guns loaded, but the effect is the same," he said in reaction to Higgins' order.

"If a secular judge does not like what he hears, he can not only throttle free speech, but can hinder the public proclamation of the gospel as well."

Muehlenberg said Jesus had warned that his followers would be dragged before courts -- "but here we see it being done in the name of civilized virtues: tolerance and the like."

"To offer a Christian critique of other religious views and truth claims can now result in jail sentences. This is a likely outcome as the two pastors will not, on principle, make public apologies."

He predicted that the case would separate those who were serious about their faith from those who were not.

"This is real wheat versus the chaff type-stuff: who will stand up and be counted, and who will not?"

Jenny Stokes of Salt Shakers, a Christian ethical action group, said from Victoria that the judge's order constituted "a form of appeasement."

"The prohibition on speaking or conduct that would have the 'same or similar effect' to the statements found by Judge Higgins to have breached the act and vilified Muslims is very far-reaching -- especially since many of those statements are from the Koran itself," she said.
'Subjective'

The Nalliah-Scot case is not the only one to have highlighted difficulties with the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act.

A convicted pedophile and self-described "witch" recently brought a case against prison authorities and the Salvation Army, complaining that a Christian course being offered to inmates at his penitentiary had vilified him by carrying derogatory references to witchcraft. The complaint is pending.

Earlier, another "witch" accused a Christian city councilor of vilifying her in a public statement he released voicing concern about satanist activity. The case ended up before the VCAT, but ended with a settlement that required the councilor to apologize publicly.

In a boost for those campaigning against the Victorian law, the premier of the neighboring state of New South Wales (NSW) - which is also under a Labor government - spoke out Monday against a lawmaker's attempt to pass similar legislation in NSW.

"Religious vilification laws are difficult because ... determining what is or is not a religious belief is difficult," Premier Bob Carr told state parliament. "It is subjective."

"Religious vilification laws can undermine the very freedom they seek to protect -- freedom of thought, conscience and belief," he said.

In a separate move, a federal lawmaker Monday introduced a private member's bill in Canberra that seeks to have Australia's federal parliament declare Victoria's religious hate law to be unnecessary.

Most opponents of the laws say that while they are well-intended, they are also superfluous as existing defamation and racial discrimination laws provide adequate protection.

Pointing to the Nalliah-Scot case outcome, Muehlenberg has also argued that secular judges are not competent to rule in complex theological disputes.

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/relig...ay/1336686.html

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT

LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/cont...05/s1398445.htm

Broadcast: 22/06/2005

Pastors refuse to apologise for vilification
Reporter: Ben Knight

TONY JONES: A Christian minister who vilified Muslims says he'd rather go to jail than apologise. Pastors Danny Nalliah and Daniel Scot have been ordered by a Victorian judge to publish the vilification finding in a series of newspaper ads. The Islamic Council's case against the two men was supported by other Christian churches, but the churches also want the laws amended. Ben Knight reports.

BEN KNIGHT: The court battle might have ended, but the debate is far from over.

WOMAN: You come here and you want your way.

MAN: This is my country.

WOMAN: We want to be able to have our way.

MAN: This is my country too.

PASTOR DANNY NALLIAH, CATCH THE FIRE MINISTERIES: We have a choice, nation of Australia. We either can follow the Koran and follow Islamic Sharia law and be slaves in this nation, or follow the Bible and be a free and democratic society.

BEN KNIGHT: Last year, pastors Danny Nalliah and Daniel Scot from Catch The Fire Ministeries were found to have spoken and published anti-Muslim statements in 2002. It wasn't long after September 11 and Muslims say there was concern about a backlash.

WALEED ALY, ISLAMIC COUNCIL OF VICTORIA: They were fearful. I mean, this was a serious thing that they encountered.

BEN KNIGHT: Judge Michael Higgins today ordered the pastors to run a series of newspaper ads to say Pastor Scot's presentation was "essentially hostile, demeaning and derogatory" and that Pastor Nalliah's article was "likely to incite hatred". The ads would also say that neither man was a credible witness, although the judge found they were otherwise of good character. He's ordered that the men not repeat the offending statements.

PASTOR DANNY NALLIAH: Right from the inception we had stated that this law is a foul law. This law is not a law, which brings unity - it causes disunity. And as far as we are concerned, right from the beginning we have stated we will not apologise. We will go to prison for standing for the truth.

WALEED ALY: Any claim to martyrdom on the basis of remedies this light would be a little bit pushing the envelope.

BEN KNIGHT: The Islamic Council was supported in the case by the Catholic, Anglican and Uniting churches. But those churches also want the law reviewed or changed to stop cases like this from getting this far. Free-speech advocates say it should simply be scrapped. The Government disagrees.

JOHN THWAITES, ACTING VICTORIAN PREMIER: We don't want to see people incited to hatred and so, for that purpose, I think it is sending the right message.

RABBI JONATHAN KEREN BLACK, VICTORIAN UNION FOR PROGRESSIVE JUDAISM: In a religious context, as long as it's fair and reasonable you can say what you feel and what you believe. But you can't vilify people, you can't whip up hatred and that's absolutely essential to understand for a modern, harmonious society. We are to develop respect for each other. There are many ways to God but we have to live together in harmony and understanding.

BEN KNIGHT: For now, Catch The Fire will seek advice on whether to comply with today's orders. Ben Knight

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