We're doomed. Doomed! DOOMED!!!
Posted on 02/05/2005 9:22:39 AM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
You made it through Y2K, but will you make it through Y2038 (also called Y2.038K)? So why did Y2K go so smoothly? And what is the difference with Y2038?
In Y2K, computers still kept perfect time. The only issue was that software that used only the last two digits of the year had trouble determining that 00 really was greater than 99. It was just a matter of fixing software to use the full year value as it should have to begin with.
But, Y2038 is entirely different. In Y2K, computers still kept perfect time and internally had no problem with the roll-over to year 2000. But not so with Y2038! In Y2038, computers are going to forget how to tell time and for many will roll-back to the year 1970!
This isn't limited to just PCs but many other devices as well. The specs on my wristwatch says that it even stops in 2038!
The problem is that some "intelligent" person years ago used a long signed integer to store the date in the PC as being the number of seconds from midnight January 1st of 1970. The problem is that those 31 bits (31 instead of 32 because of the sign bit) only last until 18 January 2038 at 19:14:07 (for all time zones). At that point the number is too large to fit in a signed integer, overflows, and rolls back.
Why not just add more bits? Well, the problem isn't limited to just software, but many hardware devices also have this limitation.
How do you fix it? Well, you'll have to buy new software for every program you own! And, most all of the computers and hardware will have to be replaced as well!
Can you start fixing it now? The answer is NO. Hardware and software vendors are still developing using this year 2038 limitation.
My conclusion as to why everyone is still developing with this limitation are that 1) it would take quite an effort to start implementing a fix and 2) [probably the more correct reason] by not implementing a fix now, people can make more money. Think about it, not only will people make money on the software and hardware they develop now, but several years from now, they have automatic sales generated by the fact that everyone will be forced to buy new software and hardware. Plus, by waiting to the last minute, not only is there more sales, but they get paid bigger bucks because of the urgency of the problem!
Don't believe me? Well, listen to what Microsoft says: Dr. GUI on the Year 2038 Bug.
However, in that article he incorrectly states that there is currently a work around that solves the problem by using COleDateTime. In a followup article, he explains why that doesn't work: More on the Y2.038K Bug.
Conclusion: Be prepared for Y2038! It is a much much more serious problem than Y2K ever was. Be prepared to spend lots of money and be prepared for all of the problems once predicted for Y2K to actually happen!!
What to look for: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/critdate.htm
How to fix it: http://www.exit109.com/~ghealton/y2k/yrexamples.html
http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/perl/perly2k.htm
http://pw2.netcom.com/~rogermw/Y2038.html
http://linuxfinances.info/info/unix2038.html
http://vancouver-webpages.com/time/Y2K38.html
http://www.phpinsider.com/php/code/Date_Calc/
http://www.silurian.com/gawp/fomg7.htm
http://www.codeguru.com/Cpp/Cpp/cpp_mfc/article.php/c775/ http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Unix%20epoch
http://www.precisioninfo.com/index.php?doc_id=59
Mars Rover crashes, reports year as 2038 (see paragraph under heading "Condition Red") - http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/20040831.html
http://archives.hwg.org/hwg-techniques/200001052338.AAA08753@ck-sg.p.lodz.pl
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Condition Red
The team was working on Mars time, in a building at JPL isolated from the California time of day by blackout shades on the windows. It was nighttime for the Spirit rover and nighttime for Spirit’s handlers.
"Sleeping and eating were optional," said Adler. "There were cots we could sleep on in our offices. This was our one objective, our primary objective in our lives, was to get our spacecraft back."
The next transmissions from Spirit were garbled. The rover was babbling, doing things like sending nonsensical communications that it date-stamped as being from the year 2038.
2038 The Year Kennedy Assasination breifs to be released ?
And by then 95 percent of technology in use will have been re-developed.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
I think thirty-three years will be plenty of time. LOL
In 33 years the tech will be so high you will need a ladder to get up there and see it. :)
And if it isn't, I'll be 93 then and somehow I don't think this will be a problem for me
"Whatchyou talkin' 'bout, PUNK?"
Start buying Spam now.
OHMYGOD! You mean I can't use the same computer and software the way I have for the last 40 years? I love my IBM 1620 - and you'll only remove my card reader from my cold, dead arms!
Well, maybe. Or maybe it are because no one are going to be using the same hardware or software in 30 years that they is using now.
2038 The Year Kennedy Assasination breifs to be released ?
Ohhhhhhh...I see.
If I am still using the same hardware in 2038 as I am now please someone kill me.
I just love posting these kinds of threads i cant help myself !
33 years ... hmmmm ... 23 years ago I was using WordStar on a multiuser CPM machine using 64K Z-80 processors - and with a whopping 10 meg hard drive that was the size of a breadbox. Televideo terminal and a daisy-wheel printer finished the package.
Will my Tandy 2000 be effected?
The first step is to realize you are powerless over your addiction and that your life has become unmanageable.
I figure that the 38 cases I currently have left from Y2K should still be good then.
Having a little fun with us, atomic?
And Velveeta, "The Cheese That Cannot Die".
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash! Be water, my friend.--Bruce Lee
Why yes .... yes i am .... But it looks like you all are having a bit of fun as well !
Isn't life grand !?
Let me see, roughly 15 years ago the 386 SX came out. There are how many of those still left in homes? Other than as collectors items, I don't think you can even give those away.
30 years from now, our current computers will be an interesting historical footnote.
So, I don't think I'm going to worry about 2038...
In fact, in 30 years, I may be a historical footnote, and probably not very interesting, either.
Man, you had a fancy system. I had 2 5.25 floppies (no hard drive). The ROM ate up 4 or 5K of memory, so I only had about 59K usable by the system. I still have the daisy wheel printer and the computer in a closet. I did find a site the other day where you can download various flavors of CP/M.
In fall of 1986, I was using at my job one of the very first Compaq 386 machines. 16 Mhz, 1 meg of memory, 40 meg hard drive, EGA monitor. Cost seven grand at the time, or about 11 grand in today's dollars.
The software I wrote on that machine for direct response media analysis continued in use until fall of 2000 - running on another 386. So software can hang around for some time, on otherwise obsolete machines, as long as it does the job. But 34 years? Not at the rate of change now.
Methinks I will have new equipment by 2038. Don't you?
*chuckle*
In all likelyhood, in 33 years I won't be around to see if it happens.
I should be totally recycled by that time.:-)(dust to dust)
I still remember the first time I heard the term "gigabyte" - and remember thinking "man, that's a lot of disk space". Now you can blow multiple gigs in one sitting.
I remember that 10-meg winchester drive that was bigger than a dictionary and now I see those USB drives with 512 meg that are smaller than a Bic lighter and I marvel at the changes.
I have seen the 8" floppies, but all of the computers I used had the 'small' 5.25 floppies.
Mac computers with the G5 processor hardware use 64-bit values in the internal clock, and some parts of the Mac OS X operating system take advantage of that feature to prevent the epoch rollover problem.
But most applications still extract only the 32-bit time value, so there is more work to be done.
Let's ask the two men who have profited the most from the assassination -- your former President, Lyndon Baines Johnson and your new President, Richard Nixon -- to release 51 CIA documents pertaining to Lee Oswald and Jack Ruby, or the secret CIA memo on Oswald's activities in Russia that was "destroyed" while being photocopied. All these documents are yours -- the people's property -- you pay for it, but because the government considers you children who might be too disturbed to face this reality, because you might lynch those involved, you cannot see these documents for another 75 years. I'm in my 40s, so I'll have shuffled off this mortal coil by then, but I'm already telling my 8-year-old son to keep himself physically fit so that one glorious September morning in 2038 he can walk into the National Archives and find out what the CIA and the FBI knew. They may even push it back then. It may become a generational affair, with questions passed down from father to son, mother to daughter, in the manner of the ancient runic bards. Someday somewhere, someone might find out the damned Truth. Or we might just build ourselves a new Government like the Declaration of Independence says we should do when the old one ain't working -- maybe a little farther out West.
I was curious about the date being used so i did a google on the year 2038 Just that phrase and this is what popped up in the first page of the search i thought to myself that this was a funny coincidence i don't know why i just did my mind kind of works that way i will say one thing it's harder to find information on the papers than you would think its almost as if it were guarded as something you want the public to forget about
Now i know it was just a movie but the more i dug the more strange it got so i figured i would throw it out here to see what the great minds of FR thought but i guess its not to be taken seriously enough to be a good subject
I hit the website from NASA and that threw me over the top on the year 2038 i mean its a NASA website who we supposed to beleive we cant distrust everyone can we ? or should we ?
Well, you guys work on this problem, I'm concentrating on the Y10K problem. We will need an extra digit in the year Jan 1, 10000.
I was always worried about the Y10K problem when the 4-digit year would no longer suffice.
I feel like we were being short sighted.
Great minds think alike. LOL
You had a hard drive? What were you, rich?
I think I still have some 8-/12 Inch floppies around here somewhere.
Nah, working for a company providing inventory control and order entry systems for auto parts stores. First computer-related job I had. In many ways, those multiuser CPM machines were vastly superior to anything the IBM PC and DOS worlds came out with for years hence - to add a user, all you had to do was drop in a new slave board and hook up another terminal.
I ran an entire company on an S100 bus CPM machine for several years.
We used WordStar and I wrote the acocunting software myself -- using some Z80 assembler functions.
I had to develop my own memory management modules to devise my own simulated virtual memory.
Ahh, the gold old days. When real programmers managed memory directly.
What's bizarre is that the Macintosh, unlike Unix, uses unsigned 32-bit quantities for dates, but bases its date calculations on January 1, 1904. Can anyone suggest why they might have chosen that as an epoch date?
I'm sure by 2038, Unix, Linux gurus will have rewrote the code.
Actually, in many cases code is not the problem--data is. If you have a database in which dates are stored as YYMMDD (decimal), and in which transactions have to be processed 24/7/365.25, converting the data to a different format is a non-trivial operation. It's not impossible, of course, but ensuring that the data state is kept consistent through the switch can be a challenge.
That said, I really don't see the Y2038 issue as being much of a problem. I would not be surprised if some code uses -1 as a sentinel value, but otherwise I would think most code could migrate dates from an signed long to an unsigned long without any real difficulty. C's typing rules could make a few things a bit irksome, but if code is inspected with some reasonable modicum of care I don't think there should be ably problems.
No kidding. When it all goes to 64 bit (or higher), this whole thing is a moot point.
So, no...the sky isn't falling. It's just frozen Airline toilet waste products that are hitting your roof, people.
It doesn't matter. The world ends in 2010 or 2012 or something. A big meteorite or something. Not to worry.
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