Man Kills Himself With Chainsaw During Arrest

Omaha.com ^ | 12/22/04 | Kristin Zagurski

[gopwinsin04]

Grand Island police went to the man's business about 5PM Tuesday to serve a federal arrest warrant for being a felon in possession of a firearm, said Deb Collins a Nebraska State Patrol spokeswoman.

Paul Smidt Jr. 40, refused officers acess to the building, Smidt Lawn Care, anD barricaded himself inside.

Negoiations continued until after midnight when officers got into the building. Smidt, armed with a chain saw, barricaded himself in a bathroom at the back of the business.

Officers got into the bathroom and orderd Smidt to drop the chainsaw. When he refused, an officer fired a non-lethal beanbag at Smidt, who then lowered his head into the chain saw, taking his own life.

'He did not stumble or fall onto the chain saw,' Collins said.

All the officers who were on duty Wednesday were to undergo a stress debriefing.

[gopwinsin04]

Definitely a buzz kill..

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Cops: "I said "still", not "stihl""

[MahaMarty]

(Rimshot in the backround!)

[steveo]

Two-cycle or 110V?

[mtbopfuyn]

Darwin!!!

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Makes you wonder if the beanbag nailed him and he fell from the hit into the saw...
Nothing to lose your head over tho.

[KidGlock]

Getting arrested is nothing to lose your head over.

[Luddite Patent Counsel]

How long until his survivors sue the chainsaw company?

[gopwinsin04]

You really have to keep your head about you in a situation like that!

[gopwinsin04]

Gold medal so far..

[who knows what evil?]

Cops: "I said "still", not "stihl"

Thanks...a PERFECTLY good Captain Morgan's and egg nog all over the place.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

GMTA!

[AngryJawa]

Aw, this story ain't real...you're just Poulan my leg.

[Gerasimov]

Dude musta had a self esteem problem... I'm sure some liberal shrink coulda fixed him.

[Americanwolf]

I guess he was a cut above the rest!

[HairOfTheDog]

to serve a federal arrest warrant for being a felon in possession of a firearm

Funny thing is he doesn't appear to have had one ;~D

[Alaska Wolf]

Undoubtedly chain brake malfunction, or if not that how about sueing the oil company or electrical company that supplied the ammunition? Someones got to be at fault.

[gov_bean_ counter]

to serve a federal arrest warrant for being a felon in possession of a firearm

Never bring a chainsaw to a gun fight.

[hiredhand]

Now c'mon...think about it. The chain on ALL chainsaws rotates AWAY from you on the top. If you hold it in your hands out in front of you, the chain travels away from you. It would have to be throttled up, and hit hard on top to prevent the peice (his HEAD in this case!) from just "riding" off the end in the direction of the chain. It's akin to cutting wood with the top of the bar. Not impossible, but much less preferred on account of chain rotation direction.

Strange enough, I was reading about energy transfer of "less than lethal" ammo (including beanbag) just this morning. 200FtLbs transfered to ANY part of your body is enough to bring you to the ground, almost immediately. My neighbor just across the road is a drug LEO and he tells me they have NEVER zapped a perp with the beanbag gun where the perp did NOT go down HARD!

If shot from the front, center mass, it's enough to knock a 185lb man back two steps. Was he shot from the back and propelled forward, onto the saw as he fell? This might explain how he ended up with his head in the saw.

In spite of being whacked with a 200FtLb chunk-o-flying-beanbag, this guy had the presense of mind to apparently think about this, and "...then lowered his head into the chain saw..."

If this was a "newer" chainsaw (than anything made up until the mid 70s or so), it will have had a safety on it that ensures that you have a GOOD grip on the handle before unlocking the throttle. It works a LOT like the grip safety on a 1911 .45 ACP pistol.

I'm not saying that the guy didn't do EXACTLY as the LEOs say. I'm just saying that it's not very believable. It sounds very fishy to me.

I'm willing to bet that these poor cops had a real "OOPSIE" sort of moment when they tagged this guy with the beanbag gun from behind and watched in shock as he fell headlong into the chainsaw at full throttle.

WHATEVER happened exactly, it had to be one nasty scene!

[BenLurkin]

Agreed. Somebody needs to look into this a little more closely.. I have great sympathy for LEOs and the job they do -- but I sense a little CYA going' on here.

[dennisw]

Unique was to meet your maker.

[dennisw]

This guy just gave the Islamic beheaders some ideas.

[hiredhand]

Agreed. Somebody needs to look into this a little more closely.. I have great sympathy for LEOs and the job they do -- but I sense a little CYA going' on here.

Ditto here. I've got friends who are LEOs and they've got a TOUGH job sometimes. But I think this was a probably a major oopsie that went seriously wrong.

I'll try and catch my neighbor in the next day or so and ask him what he thinks about this. He's got first hand experience with the beanbag gun. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

[general_re]

Ya never know:

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-19.html

[Vigilantcitizen]

I've used chainsaws a fair amount....

I agree with you two.

[HairOfTheDog]

Story sounds strange? Well, I'd hope so! The guy is holed up in a bathroom with a running chainsaw and people think one of his other decisions that day sounds a little inconceivable?

[hiredhand]

Ya know....I was JUST perusing a Gallery server I set up for my oldest son, and he has a comic series in which one of the characters declares,

"Some people have to work their whole lives to get a Darwin Award, while others are born predestined recipients."

I thought this was strangely fitting. :-)

[hiredhand]

Yeah...pretty fishy.

[general_re]

There's apparently something about chainsaws that inspires people to do dumb things:

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2002-08.html
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2002-01.html

[hiredhand]

tory sounds strange? Well, I'd hope so! The guy is holed up in a bathroom with a running chainsaw and people think one of his other decisions that day sounds a little inconceivable?

I wasn't there, and I'm NOT qualified to criticize the LEOs involved, but it seems that if somebody could get a shot in with a beanbag gun, then they could have tossed a can of CS gas....or a flashbang....

I just think that shooting a guy with a beanbag gun who is holding a chainsaw at a high enough throttle to kill a person should they come in contact with it was ....er....maybe a bad choice.

Ah well....hindsight is always 20/20 eh? :-)

[hiredhand]

The exact operation of (US made) grenades is classified (believe it or not :-). But a chainsaw is DEFINITELY the wrong way to retrieve the propellant from them!

All I can think of that comes to mind about that Croatian is JUST DAMN! :-)

[HairOfTheDog]

I just think that shooting a guy with a beanbag gun who is holding a chainsaw at a high enough throttle to kill a person should they come in contact with it was ....er....maybe a bad choice.

They'd have been justified to shoot him dead. They don't need to cover themselves here.

[fish hawk]

Good for that two faced bastard.

[byteback]

Split Personality?

[Charles Henrickson]

A splitting-head ache.

[hiredhand]

They'd have been justified to shoot him dead. They don't need to cover themselves here.

They could have kept a safe distance and left him ALONE. Then if he had decided to harvest his own grey matter with a chainsaw, they would have at least been able to say in hindsight that they were NOT a factor in it.

IF he had chosen to come out, and toward them with a running chainsaw as a weapon, then by all means drop him. There's a lot to doubt here, and as long as there is doubt, the LEOs involved will have to give account.

But this story in its present form is just not believable. Think about it....cops pop him with a beanbag gun, and immediately afterwards, he runs a chainsaw into his cranium far enough to kill him.

Didn't we adopt a three shot burst trigger for this same reason? ...to keep a soldier from holding the trigger because of trauma reaction and taking out friendlies? as I remember, that was at least ONE of the reasons.

We aren't that gullible. The LEOs don't have to cover for anything if this is the way it happened. But there is a lot of doubt as to whether them shooting him with a less than lethal weapon had anything to do with his death.

I still root for the cops...and say that they tried to incapacitate him from behind, knocking him forward onto the saw, and indirectly causing his death. I also think the deceased deserves a "special" sort of Darwin Award for being shot with something that was NOT supposed to kill him, but caused him to jam his head into a running chainsaw.

I can only imagine the LEO who fired the beanbag saying just after the grisly event, "Now THAT wasn't supposed to happen!"

[HairOfTheDog]

They could have kept a safe distance and left him ALONE.

They had an arrest warrant for him, "If you don't want to be arrested, just don't answer the door and they'll go away" is not a very workable law enforcement policy. A guy with a running chainsaw is a deadly threat, I can only imagine how small a space really is in a home with a chainsaw wielding man. Yes, deadly force was justified.

You look at guy engaging in a string of bizarre and self-destructive behavior and see cops who might be lying. I don't know why. But I guess I am OK with you thinking that.

[hiredhand]

They had an arrest warrant for him, "If you don't want to be arrested, just don't answer the door and they'll go away" is not a very workable law enforcement policy. A guy with a running chainsaw is a deadly threat, I can only imagine how small a space really is in a home with a chainsaw wielding man. Yes, deadly force was justified.

You look at guy engaging in a string of bizarre and self-destructive behavior and see cops who might be lying. I don't know why. But I guess I am OK with you thinking that.

PULEASE! I did NOT say that the cops were "lying", or that they were trying to "cover up" anything!

I was merely pointing out (and mind you I'm not the only one!) that this story is NOT very believable, and that it wouldn't have hurt anything to just leave him where he was for awhile and make sure he didn't go far!

Supposing the guy only held the chainsaw at throttle he would have run out of gas in an hour or so anyway, maybe less. He had no hostages, and was "holed up". Where in the world did they think he was going to go?!

Just because a warrant has been issued, the officers serving the warrant don't have the option of applying deadly force FIRST unless circumstances dictate. The very fact that they used a less than lethal weapon indicates that they understand this. It goes without saying that you have to put yourself in very CLOSE proximity in order for somebody armed with a chainsaw to hurt you.

I think it's been well established that the LEOs involved in this CHOSE to take action, whereas in hindsight it could have better to wait.

Truth be known....though I root for the LEOs, this doesn't look good for them. I won't be surprised if somebody in this guy's family finds a cop hating lawyer and takes them to court.

Seriously, WHAT were they thinking when they shot a man holding a running chainsaw?! It rates right up there with shooting somebody holding a grenade...the pin has been pulled, and they're holding the latch.

It was just a bad choice.

[HairOfTheDog]

Heh... OKAY!

[JusPasenThru]

When chainsaws are outlawed, only outlaws will have chainsaws.

[hiredhand]

Heh... OKAY!

LOL! Ya know...I've been quiet on FR lately, and I've missed it. It's been good swapping views with you this evening.

Merry Christmas and may God bless you. :-)

[bushisdamanin04]

Chainsaws don't kill people; people do!

..

[HairOfTheDog]

And also you! :~D