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Blue Apples, privacy, and Web Bugs at FR
5/10/2004 | self

Posted on 05/09/2004 10:09:59 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater

Blue Apples, privacy, and Web Bugs at FR

Some freepers use a visible graphic or 'icon' on their every post such as one person that uses a "blue apple" from his own home webspace. Icons like that can serve as a 'web-bug' to harvest personal info from freepers.

Now I realize FR doesn't allow java, javascript, vbscript, or active-x content so the risk is lowered. But some of these same freepers are also amatuer programmers with access to detailed webmaster server-access statistics. Those stats can collect the IP addresses, and a number of other environment variables from every computer that accesses a planted 'image'. So its possible for one of them to, let's say 'match-up' your comments here and learn personal details about you that he can abuse in dispicable ways.

I wish the Robinson's would make some type of policy statement at the very least, about web-bugs. Some things I might recommend are:

Whenever it becomes KNOWN that a freeper you disagree with strongly may be mining his posts with web-bugs, there is a way to block them. For example, all Windows computers have a plain-text 'hosts' file, and you can add entries to that to block graphics from any particular server, (including many advertisement servers by the way!).

On XP computers, that 'hosts' file probably resides at:
  "c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts"
It can be edited with a plain-text editor, and the following sample lines inserted...
(you should do this editing ONLY when your browser is totally shut down)

The first line will block the blue apple 'icon'. The others will block some of the worst ad-servers or spyware tracking sites. I like to browse my 'cookies' file occasionally, and when I see a server that is setting cookies (or serving popups or annoying ads), add a line to the 'hosts' file to permanently block them.

John Robinson, have you ever discussed or considered web-bugs here at FR?


TOPICS: Computers/Internet; Focus Software
KEYWORDS: privacy; webbugs
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 05/09/2004 10:10:00 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater
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On 2nd thought, I don't believe it is necessary to close
your browser before editing your 'hosts' file.

You just 'might' not always see the benefits of a new 'block'
until the next time you restart the browser,

or press Shift-Reload or shift-refresh
or clear your cache
2 posted on 05/09/2004 10:44:19 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: John Robinson; Jim Robinson; amdgmary; Ohioan from Florida; supercat; floriduh voter; pc93
Questions to the management
3 posted on 05/09/2004 10:47:26 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: FL_engineer
Interesting. Never gave those little pictures a thought, but you've got a real good point.
4 posted on 05/09/2004 10:49:50 PM PDT by Auntie Mame (Perfection is the enemy of good enough.)
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To: John Robinson; Jim Robinson
This is not meant to be a personal attack, but just a discussion of policy here at FR. I'd like to know the Robinson's feelings on a pracice that has become popularized by one freeper.

And that is, to do EXTENSIVE user-posts history downloading to their home computer, extracting more specific posting patterns from that, and then posting the freeper's handle, along with his detailed pattern on some thread where a heated argument is in progress.

Often the freeper/programmer who does this will post some sort of snide or discouraging remark about the other freeper, related to his posting history, or else others involved with the 'argument' tend to do so.

To the Robinson's: would you say a few words about this practice?
* do you find it abusive of freepers?
* do you find it abusive of the cpu resources here at FR?
* what would happen to bandwidth if EVERYONE started doing this all the time?

thank you. FLE (example follows) ...my emphasis in RED


This is your posting profile. It is very unusual when compared to that of other posters. Do you work for a government entity or NGO hostile to individual liberty, and post as part of that job?

The headings are hours from midnight to following 11:59 pm in military time notation. Below each time there are four spaces each representing 15 minute increments (a dot fills each unused slot). The numbers in the each slot are the number of posts in the 15 min period. An exclamation point (!) is in a slot that had more than 9 posts.



           00  01  02  03  04  05  06  07  08  09  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  23  
2003/09/05....................................................1...........1...1...............................
2003/09/06........................................................................3...2.......................
2003/09/07....................................1...........1...................................................
2003/09/08............................1...1...2....1..................1...1...................................
2003/09/09...................................................16...6...5...6...1...............................
2003/09/10................................3...2..........111.14...5...3...1...................................
2003/09/11............................1...2...5.....11121111112...2...7...3...................................
2003/09/12................................6...8....111211.................2...1...............................
2003/09/13........................................................3...5...2...................................
2003/09/14....................................................3...3.......4...................................
2003/09/15............................2...1...3...2..12.1.............1...3...1...............................
2003/09/16................................1...4........22231221...............2...............................
2003/09/17............................1...3...1....11.....11..........4...1...1...............................
2003/09/18....................................3......21...11112...1...........2...1...........................
2003/09/19....................................3...111.......113...5.......3...3...............................
2003/09/20....................................3...2.1.........2...4...............1...1.......................
2003/09/21............................1...4.......................2...........1...............................
2003/09/22................................2...8...2212221.11115...............................................
2003/09/23............................1...3...6...111132121.1.2.......1.......................................
2003/09/24............................1...1.......1...2.21.1123...3.......2...................................
2003/09/25............................1...3...3......23212.22.1...3...1.......................................
2003/09/26....................................2...............................................................
2003/09/28....................................3...............................2...1...........................
2003/09/29..................................................1.1...2...1...1...................................
2003/09/30................................1...1...21....1.....1...............................................
2003/10/01............................1...3...5....1121.......1...1...3...2...2...4...........................
2003/10/02............................1...2.......................3...1.......................................
2003/10/03................................1...6...1122.1.12..16...4...........7...............................
2003/10/04........................................................4...........2...1...........................
2003/10/05...................................................1................................................
2003/10/06............................2...4................1......2...2.......1...............................
2003/10/07................................2...1...............4...1...........1...2...........................
2003/10/08................................1...2....1..1111111.3...5...5...2...1...3...1...1...........1.......
2003/10/09....1...................................3211121132.13...4...........................1....11.........
2003/10/101..1............................4...4...3.3122.221.25.......................3...2...2.....11.1......
2003/10/111.2.................................................1...1...2...3...2.......1.......................
2003/10/12...................................................13...........1...................................
2003/10/13................................1...2...11.112.121.12...3...........................................
2003/10/14....................................1...1.12.1.1.1111...1.......1.......1...3..............12.......
2003/10/15................................2...6...1.1......1213...........2...........2.......................
2003/10/16................................3...5....11.1.21221.4...4.......2...7...4...........................
2003/10/171...................................4...111..11.11112...3...........................................
2003/10/18................................................................5...4.......2...1...................
2003/10/19............................................................2...1...................................
2003/10/20....................................2....11.............3...2...4...................................
2003/10/21................................2...3...2...2......17...3...1...3...................................
2003/10/22....................................2.....11.....1..2...4.......3...1...............................
2003/10/23................................1........1.......11.........................2.......................
2003/10/24................................3...1...1.11211.2.1.....1...........................................
2003/10/25............................................................1...2...1...............................
2003/10/26................................................................2...3...............................
2003/10/27................................1..........1...11.112...........1...................................
2003/10/28................................2...5...122212.121.26...5...2.......................................
2003/10/29................................4...3...221121.112112...............................................
2003/10/30................................3...2......1.1211111....1...2.......................................
2003/10/31....................................4...1.11.21....1....1...1.......................................
2003/11/01........................................................1...1.......................................
2003/11/02........................................................1...4...5...5...2...1.......................
2003/11/03............................1...5...3....2.1........4...................1...........................
2003/11/04............................1...3...4...11.111.1..215...5...5...2...................................
2003/11/05................................1...2....1.12.1.11.2....1...........1...............................
2003/11/06............................2...3...2...1112................2...1...................................
2003/11/07............................2...5...5...................2...3.......................................
2003/11/08............................1...2............2.....12...............................................
2003/11/09............................1...3........11.........................................................
2003/11/10....................................1...1...111..11.5...2...2...5...................................
2003/11/11................................1...................1...2...4...4...................................
2003/11/12........................................1.1..23..31.............1...................................
2003/11/13................................3...1...12211.11..1.............1...................................
2003/11/14................................3...4...........................3...3...1...........................
2003/11/15....................................1.........1...1.................................................
2003/11/16.........................................112....11124...2...........................................
2003/11/17................................1...3....1......................2...................................
2003/11/18................................2...2...1...........3...2.......1...................................
2003/11/19................................1...3...1.111...111.2...2...3...2...................................
2003/11/20................................3...2.......11.1.1.25...3...8...3...................................
2003/11/21................................2...4...21...1..11315...2...1...........1...........................
2003/11/22....................................2...22..........1...............................................
2003/11/23..............................................1..1.14...3...7...7...6...3...........................
2003/11/24................................1...8...11111..1....3...1...1...5...1...............................
2003/11/25....................................3...11..2..1.1..3...4.......1...................................
2003/11/26............................1...2...2..............15...4...4...2...................................
2003/11/27...........................................1..1.....................................................
2003/11/30................................................................4...3...5...1.......................
2003/12/01................................6...2...............3...2...........2...............................
2003/12/02................................4...............................2...................................
2003/12/03....................................3...1.1....212121...2...4...6...................................
2003/12/04............................3...4...4...1.221121211.....1.......1...2...............................
2003/12/05................................3...2...1.11221211.12...............................................
2003/12/06................................4...5...111.1...........3.......1...................................
2003/12/07................................1...4..........1.11.....1...4.......................................
2003/12/08................................1...3...1........1..........3...1...................................
2003/12/09................................2...............21.13...2...2...1...2...1...........................
2003/12/10...........................................121.2.11.3...1...........3...............................
2003/12/12........................................................................8...8.......................
2003/12/13........................................................................1...3.......................
2003/12/14................................3................1..........1...1...................................
2003/12/15............................................2.......................................................
2003/12/16........................1...3...4...4......22.3121123.......6...1...................................
2003/12/17....................................3...1..111112.111...3...1.......1...2...........................
2003/12/18............................2...1.........1.............5...5...4...................................
2003/12/19................................1...1....2..1..1..116...2...1.......................1...............
2003/12/20................................................1...2...............................................
2003/12/21....................................3...121111......................................................
2003/12/22....................................2.....1.............1...........................................
2003/12/23....................................2....1.1111121113...4...5...2...1...............................
2003/12/24................................3..............1....................................................
2003/12/27....................................1....1......................1...................................
2003/12/28...........................................2.21.1.......1...........................................
2003/12/29................................1...........................2.......................................
2003/12/30................................2...4....1.2221413211.......1...1...................................
2003/12/31................................2...4....11.11.111..1.......1...1...................................
2004/01/01..........................................2.2.21....................................................
2004/01/02................................5...2...22..........1...4...4...3...................................
2004/01/03................................1...2....121.211....1...1...........................................
2004/01/04....................................1.....11112.12..3...3...........................................
2004/01/05................................2...3...1.112.......1...2.......5...................................
2004/01/06................................5...7.....32212..1135...............................................
2004/01/07................................2...6...1...11.1...1................................................
2004/01/08................................3...4...11.1..11111.........3...2...................................
2004/01/09....................................1...11111232....2.......3...3...................................
2004/01/10................................2...1...21..1...1.11................2...............................
2004/01/11....................................3...1.11.11111.13...2...2.......................................
2004/01/12....................................4...22112.21211.6...6...5...1...................................
2004/01/13..........................................11...11.112...1...2.......................................
2004/01/14................................2...4...1...............5...2.......................................
2004/01/15....................................5....111............2...1...1...1...............................
2004/01/16................................4...4....11.2231.12.2...............................................
2004/01/17....................................1......11....1..................................................
2004/01/18....................................1...1.......1...................................................
2004/01/19................................9...3...11..............5...5...4...1...............................
2004/01/20....................................2...1..21....1111.......5...3...................................
2004/01/21....................................3...1...1.11.1.1....1...2...2...3...............................
2004/01/22................................2...2...22.111221211!...5...4...7...1...............................
2004/01/23................................4...6...3.1111......................2...............................
2004/01/26............................4...2...1..........111..1...2...2...........2...........................
2004/01/27............................1...3...5......12311..218...5...2.......................................
2004/01/28................................2...2...1.1..1.11...........1...4...................................
2004/01/29............................2...1...1...21.111..111.3...1...1.......................................
2004/01/30....................................2....1111.3121125...4...6.......................................
2004/01/31....................................................................2...............................
2004/02/01............................................................2.......................................
2004/02/02................................1...5...21..1112.12.2...1...........1...............................
2004/02/03............................1...2...2...111.1.3..23.1.......1...1...................................
2004/02/04....................................3.....1...1.21.35...............................................
2004/02/05................................2...2...211........11...3...1.......3...............................
2004/02/06................................5...4...1112........4...........1...................................
2004/02/07....................................1....121.12311211...6.......5...5...............................
2004/02/08................................2...4...2..11.11.3217...7...6...3...5...............................
2004/02/09....................................3...2...............1...........................................
2004/02/10................................2...1.......2.121.125...3...3...1...................................
2004/02/11....................................3...1.1211.112224.......4...2...................................
2004/02/12........................1...4...3...1...11.121.11..14...4...2...5...2...............................
2004/02/13............................1...4...4...1......1111.....2...1...1...................................
2004/02/14................................5...8....2.........25...1...........................................
2004/02/15....................................................................2...3...........................
2004/02/16....................................3...212...2..1..............1...................................
2004/02/17................................1...1...2..1.1..2...2.......2.......................................
2004/02/18................................3...3...112..21...1.1...2...4...5...................................
2004/02/19................................3...7...11111221.11.3...2...2.......................................
2004/02/20................................2...5...113.11..1.......3...1.......1...............................
2004/02/21................................3...2...............................3...2...........................
2004/02/22...........................................2.21.2.212...........1...................................
2004/02/23................................2...2....1..................2.......................................
2004/02/24................................2...2...1.......1...2...1...2...2...................................
2004/02/25................................2...3...11..1.....1.1...1...........................................
2004/02/26........................................2.......11......4.......1...................................
2004/02/27................................2..........211..21..1...............................................
2004/03/01....................................2...1..211.1.1..2...2.......2...3...............................
2004/03/02................................4...3......1.11121..2...........1...................................
2004/03/03....................................3...1.12111111..................................................
2004/03/04........................................1..1.21.........1...2...3...................1...2...........
2004/03/05................................1...1....111........................................................
2004/03/06................................1...2......211......................3...1...........2....1..........
2004/03/07........................................1...........................................................
2004/03/08...............................................1....................................................
2004/03/09............................1.......1...11..........1.......1...2...................................
2004/03/10....................................3...1..111..................3...................................
2004/03/11................................5...1....1.1..11..1.1...4...4...2.......1...........................
2004/03/12....................................3...1111..111.313...2...1.......2...............................
2004/03/13................................2...1....11..11.............1.......................................
2004/03/14................................1...2...1...111.....................2...............................
2004/03/15................................6..........11...1.......1...1...2...................................
2004/03/16................................3...3...11111.21211.3.......3.......................................
2004/03/17....................................1...1.1..121....1...1...........................................
2004/03/18....................................3....1....1..1.11...3...1.......................................
2004/03/19................................5...3....1.1...12.11........2...1...1...............................
2004/03/20....................................2...21.11..12...........1...3...2...............................
2004/03/21............................................1.111..13...............................................
2004/03/22....................................2........11.....2...2.......1...................................
2004/03/23................................1...2...1111..1111114...1...1...2...................................
2004/03/24................................3...3....2.1.....11.1...1...........................................
2004/03/25................................1...1...............................................................
2004/03/26....................................2...111...1.1.112.......3...4...6...5...........................
2004/03/27................................3...2.....1211...12.1...............................................
2004/03/29....................................4...1..2..11..1.........1.......................................
2004/03/30................................1...4...1..111.12.1.....2...2.......2...............................
2004/03/31....................................3......11.1.1..1........1...........2...........................
2004/04/01............................2...2...1...2.1.............1...........1...............................
2004/04/02................................3...3...11.1....211.3...2...2.......................................
2004/04/03............................1...4.......................2...3.......................................
2004/04/04.........................................1221111............2.......................................
2004/04/05....................................5...1.11111221113.......1...1...................................
2004/04/06................................1...5.......1.11..1.........1...3...................................
2004/04/07................................1...3....111.1.2..1.3...2.......1...................................
2004/04/08................................2...3...2121.1..2.112...2.......3...................................
2004/04/09....................................1......121.11..1........1...2...1...............................
2004/04/10....................................................1...3...3...3...................................
2004/04/11............................................................2.......................................
2004/04/12............................2.......2...1..12...11112...2...4.......................................
2004/04/13................................2.......112...111...................1...1...1.......1...............
2004/04/14....................................3...1111.1211.113...4...3.......................................
2004/04/15................................3...4...1....1.112..1...2...........2...1...........................
2004/04/16............................2...2...........11.2........2...........................................
2004/04/17........................................................................2...1.......................
2004/04/18....................................................................1...1...1.......................
2004/04/19....................................5...1.1.........................................................
2004/04/20....................................6...........2.3.3...4...2.......................................
2004/04/21............................1...2...3...21..11..2.213...4...1.......................................
2004/04/22....................................3....123112113215.......1...1...1...............................
2004/04/23................................1...5...1111.1111..1....3.......1...3...3................2..12......
2004/04/24....................................................................1...1...........................
2004/04/25............................................................1...2...................................



5 posted on 05/09/2004 10:51:17 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: William Terrell
You will probably be interested in this thread.
6 posted on 05/09/2004 11:01:32 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: TOUGH STOUGH; phenn; Politicalmom; mtbopfuyn; Artlover; T'wit; Libertina; wisconsinconservative; ...
`
7 posted on 05/09/2004 11:10:09 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: FL_engineer
Interesting. I had no idea such a thing was possible. I look forward to the responses.
8 posted on 05/09/2004 11:17:37 PM PDT by TOUGH STOUGH
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To: FL_engineer; Jim Robinson
Oh just lovely. It's just the thing I would expect from someone of his caliber. God bless and protect Terri and her family.
9 posted on 05/10/2004 12:30:21 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Torrance Ca....land of the flying monkeys)
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To: FL_engineer
If you want to make the changes on-line. After making your changes to the hosts file try going to the command prompt
and typing: nbtstat -R and hitting enter.
10 posted on 05/10/2004 2:28:34 AM PDT by pc93
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To: FL_engineer; Jim Robinson
To this reader, such icons are a constant annoyance without adding a thing. I'd favor banning them all.
11 posted on 05/10/2004 5:59:07 AM PDT by T'wit ("To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt)
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To: FL_engineer
Will basic ad-ware catch these things?
12 posted on 05/10/2004 6:23:49 AM PDT by Politicalmom
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To: philman_36; FL_engineer; All
Thanks for alerting me.

FL_engineer, since this thread is obviously about me, why didn't you alert me? Did you examine the binary in my little symbol to see if it contained any odd code? It's not very big.

To anyone that is interested, this posted chart is "mined" from information you get when you do a poster search. It takes about 20 minutes to gather a few months of posting by saving each page and putting them together in a single file. It takes patience and time. I don't have the time nor the desire to waste on keeping track of anyone.

It's true, anyone can figure out how to do this, and anyone who can program can figure out how to isolate the date and time from the posts and arrange the data. The posts I made, reproduced here, is for another poster. I also posted my own pattern on the same thread I posted this.

As far as I'm concerned, the notion that my picture is gathering data is absurd. If I were doing that, why would I let be known that I was by publicly announcing it? Probably, it can be done, by FL_engineer, who seems to know how to do it, by not by me. I am (was) a business programmer.

The question highlighted in red in post #5 on this thread, that has the chart, is one asked of the poster in question by a number of people that have debated with him (her). I just went one step farther.

13 posted on 05/10/2004 7:32:57 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: T'wit
such icons are a constant annoyance without adding a thing. I'd favor banning them all. Ditto from this reader too.


14 posted on 05/10/2004 9:02:37 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: William Terrell
No problem. You may never have known otherwise.
15 posted on 05/10/2004 9:56:33 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
It looks like I wouldn't have. Very odd behavior from compassionate people.

16 posted on 05/10/2004 9:59:55 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: FL_engineer; William Terrell
But some of these same freepers are also amatuer programmers with access to detailed webmaster server-access statistics. Those stats can collect the IP addresses, and a number of other environment variables from every computer that accesses a planted 'image'.

On balance, I have to say that W.T.'s explanation of his methodology makes more sense than this - notice that it's a timeline for a posting history, and let's walk though what we'd have to do to produce that by the method you suggest. In order for me to do this, the first thing I have to do is use an icon to capture your IP address, and pray that you're not on dial-up or some other highly variable DHCP connection - I have to tie your handle to an IP address somehow, or else I'm dead in the water, right from the start. Assuming that my prayers are answered, I may be able to grab your IP, but this is not as easy as it sounds. When you first open a thread, you'll grab my image, but so will everyone else, so that doesn't help me in separating you out from the crowd. Nor can I rely on correlating your post times to my logs, necessarily - the first time you open the thread, your browser will download the image and cache it, and when it reloads the page immediately after a post, it's highly likely that it will simply pull the image out of the cache, rather than hitting my server again. Eventually, by following you around fairly closely, and if you have a close-to-static IP, I'll probably be able to get you sooner or later, but it might take some doing.

Now, here's the next problem - in order to do a comprehensive history of your posting habits from then on, I have to track you by planting my icon(s) on every single thread here at FR, otherwise, I won't have any way of knowing from my logs whether you were present on that thread or not. Furthermore, even if I do that, I then have to have some sort of unique identifier on each image, for each individual thread, or I won't know exactly which thread is causing you to download my image, and hence won't know exactly which threads you're interested in.

So now imagine I've planted my bug on every thread, and every time I plant it, I give it a unique identifier for tracking purposes. Even at that point, my problems aren't over - now I have to go through my logs and actually examine each thread you've touched, in order to see if you actually posted, or if you just read the thing.

Now, admittedly, I could script a lot of this, but doesn't it sound like an awful lot of effort, without much in the way of payoff? Wouldn't it be easier to simply walk through a poster's recent posts, and jot down the time of each post?

17 posted on 05/10/2004 10:27:27 AM PDT by general_re (Drive offensively - the life you save may be your own.)
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To: philman_36
Thanks for helping with the pinging. You beat me by 9 minutes
and I was able to spare him DOUBLE pings...
18 posted on 05/10/2004 10:49:39 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: general_re
I'm glad you think that cyber-sleuthing people online is too difficult.
That may help convince others not to try it. And I won't bother
correcting you, or pointing out the dastardly things that 'could' be done
because that will only give @ssholes more ideas.
19 posted on 05/10/2004 10:51:23 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: cinFLA; Roscoe; robertpaulsen; tpaine
I Thought some of you would also be interested in these questions-to-management.

And Roscoe, were you EVEN AWARE that freepers had published
your posting-pattern
published for the purposes of criticizing you?

General questions to all of you,

Do you agree some people could find their posting-patterns put on public display
to be intimidating, or have a chilling effect on them?

Do you agree this sometimes seems to be done to silence their competition?

Do you agree this could be seen as abusive?

or wasteful of F.R.'s CPU time or bandwidth?



20 posted on 05/10/2004 11:04:50 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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