The Gaslighting of the Masses

Or are the Republicans surrendering to globalist interests if they keep this going?

Did Trump surender to Putin? Or did he pursue a pragmatic policy which made it expensive IF Russia invades by arming and training Ukraine. BUT not escalate the situation with NATO membership and put the Russians in a position where they have a legitimate security concern?

Could it be that you’re the one on the globalist bandwagon and you don’t even know it?

Do you really think Ukraine is better off now? And for what? What was this great return they were going to get, they were already getting training and weapons from us, conducting NATO exercises... If you look at ROI and Risk, how did Biden’s move make sense? It didn’t. Now I am speculating, but I believe Biden was looking for a foreign policy success after the Afghanistan debacle. I think Ukraine was a perfect target for this because EVERYONE is happy with that move, US and EU economic interests that want the security these institutions provide. It was a high risk move where he was gambling with other people’s lives, other people’s homes, jobs, an entire country of 41 million.

What was the gamble? We had been arming and training Ukraine for years. The cost of Russia invading would be very high for them, and that it is. The idea is that they would acquiesce and Biden looks like a hero with no one (who politicalaly matters to him or his party) objecting to this move. But the gamble didn’t work out.

Two mistakes were made, again purely speculation:

1. The Russians have a huge willingness to accept pain. They will lose 5,000 men in Chechnya and come back a few years later, lose another 5,500 men but win. We are casualty adverse politicaly, they aren’t. Culturally we always think everyone is like us.

2. Ukraine is strategic, and them being in NATO impacts their nuclear deterrant forces because of our missile defense and it gives them no reaction time in a first strike by us. Ukraine isn’t Lithuania. If Ukraine is in NATO, they have 1,400 miles of shared border with rail, hardball connection, and huge manuever corridors we can stuff a mechanized force through. Ukraine has dozens of runways that can support big shit like B52s, C-5s... They have seaports, direct lines to Poland and Romania are big and you can hide stuff. The local economy and infrastructure can support a large force indefinitely. I wasn’t raised to sympathize for the Russians (I’m a Cold War product), but if I were in their shoes, I’d shit a cow if I heard Ukraine is joining NATO. When an issue is VERY important and you cannot come to an agreement (resolve it by other means), war will ensue. Only we are the ones that created this situation. Not the Russians. Not the EU. Not even Ukraine. We did.

We are obfuscating the issue with a lot of BS, but this right here caused a war: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/ and it was 100% Biden’s call. After this decision by “””us””” the Russians started moving forces to the area, conducting large scale exercises, etc.

Both Russia and the US are ruled in reality by a small group of “oligarchs.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

The West today has a small group of super rich and corporations that own the MSM or to whom the MSM is beholden too. Likewise, the same group has immense influence over the political system since they need money for their campaigns, parties but also because they also want to be rich (in the words of Ross Perot: Congress is for sale to the highest bidder). So it really boils down to the small group of elite super rich folks, the ones you see at Davis, Bilderberg... If you want to see this in action, just look at the Disney corporation when Mickey Mouse was about to lose copyright protection. They single handedly changed US law to suit them:
https://online.yu.edu/cardozo/blog/disney-influence-copyright-law or look at how pharma buys politicians:
https://www.texastribune.org/2011/08/15/facing-new-scrutiny-perry-walks-back-hpv-decision/

We are actually much similar than we would like to believe, but on the global stage, Russia and the US are also competitors. We are the only two that essentially own all the world’s real estate as it pertains to gas/oil. The Russians control about 1/3 and have Syria, Venezuela, Iran... We control 2/3rds and own places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar...

Everyone gets their energy from us or from them, period. The Brits, Netherlands, French operate on land we control. Not even the Chinese own the real estate the bulk of their oil/gas energy comes from.

That said, we have been trying to tear more of what is theirs under our control, and that is true in Syria (has been theirs since the 1970s), Libya... By keeping this war in Ukraine going, we are weakening the Russian position on the global stage in a huge way!

All the democracy, human rights, transparency, sovereignty talk is nonsense. If that were true, we should take action in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt... Fact is, we are entirely willing to accept despot leaders that torture, even kill US residents working for the US media: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45812399. All these feel good arguments are selectively applied when convenient to get folks excited and behind the political leadership, but it is junk.

In the case of Ukraine, Western economic interests have wanted them in the EU and NATO for years. The reason for this is that these organization provide the legal, procedural, buerocractic and physical security these large multi-national corporations and financial institutions seek. They want the assurance that there won’t we a nationalization of their capital, that some local political leader doesn’t impose a tariff, import/export restrictions... The EU provides the economic while NATO provides the physical security.

While you talk about sovereignty and Ukraine, it is exactly folks like Soros who with the help of our state department, USAID and his NGOS brought someone like Mr. Z into power. That’s not just a theory, leaked tapes from our state department, Soros proudly in interviews, and some of the NGOs involved brag about their accomplishments and explain how they did it! Of course that’s not what we talk about now.

So that leaves some simple questions, is our economic benefit a legitimate cause for a war and putting Russia in a position where they are legitimately threatened? Are our oligarchs more entitled to Ukraine than Russia’s security interests?

But claiming this is about any of that sovereignty, democracy, human rights, freedom stuff is a joke.

Ukraine:

Red herring: democracy, human rights, sovereignty, freedom, transparency

False dilemma: it’s a surrender if we don’t support Ukraine against Putin.

Appeals to emotions: girls with blue and yellow ribbons in their hair holding a rifle with a lollipop in their mouth. Use of the destruction of war to justify the war (what the Palestinians like to do). Use of words like “war of aggression” or “unprovoked.” The madman argument which really just means you don’t need to defend ones own position (Putin is a madman).

Appeal to ignorance: pretending the Russians are this huge threat when we know well that they aren’t 1/2 our conventional military and have few and far weaker allies.

Appeal to tradition: use of the Soviet/Warsaw Pact threat picture to create an enemy that does not exist. Use Cold War imagry.

Factually: this war had nothing to do with our national security - zero, zip. That argument goes to Russia.

Factually: we started this war by putting another nation into an aweful position where they either surrender to our economic interests, or go to war to back up their security interests.

Factually: Russia has explained their position repeatedly and we have crossed that line in Republic of Georgia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. We tried in Ukraine twice and they stopped us as they did in the Republic of Georgia.

Factually: we lied (NATO East expansion), we cheated (Minsk agreement), we broke promises or backed out of them (ballistic missile treaty). Those the the backdrop which more or less caused this war when we gave the green light for Ukraine NATO membership in October 2021.

It’s nice to have a black and white world where we are always the good guys. That world view doesn’t require a lot of stress nor thought and it feels good. However, I caution you that when all the arguments are either false or fallacies, it often isn’t the way you are led to believe.

People who have no or weak arguments use fallacies and that is something which is very consistent may it be Covid, Ukraine, or climate change etc.

The Republicans will win because it’s the economy stupid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid They could put a fish on the ballot and that would win.

And they paint the Republicans as causing climate change, not doing enough about Covid,student loans, rising health care costs, being xenophobic against Muslims, racist against blacks and Latinos, not caring about the forrest, endangered spices, not caring about some 12 year old wanting an abortion after being raped by a relative or some kid that wants a sex change.

***Pandering is surrending.*** Your argument can be applied to any other issue as well, and in fact folks care more about those than the Ukraine which in all reality is fairly low on the concern list. Let me say it again, it’s the economy stupid (James Carville said that when it was Bush vs. Clinton and you have the same situation today): https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/05/12/by-a-wide-margin-americans-view-inflation-as-the-top-problem-facing-the-country-today/. If the presidential elections were today, a bowling ball would win against Biden - but then again, after they get in all the mail in ballots and using digital voting machines maybe not.

If you ask most Americans “do you personally want to pay $700 for this war in Ukraine, they will answer, no.” That is what everyone in the labor pool is paying thus far, or ~$1,335 per tax payer.

What percent would agree with you if told the amount and given a choice? 2%, 3%, hahaha

Better yet, ask them this. Are you willing to make a $1,335 down payment, with more to follow, for a war George Soros and many other national and international billionaires support and stand to gain from?

All you need to do is to make it really clear to the average American that this is hitting their pocketbook, and as with defense spending in the Cold War, Iraq... views will start changing.

As long as it’s magic money where folks don’t realize “that’s their money” you can get away with this sort of crap and since the MSM supports the Dems that is exactly what is happening. They’re not highlighting anything which would put a negative perception on the war, whereas in Iraq that is all they focused in on: our casualties, the cost, Iraqis that say bad things and want us to leave, missed bombs and collateral damage, some abusive soldier that did something horrible, PTSD, a soldier bad mouthing his leadership, equipment that would be nice to have... The MSM will be backing the Dems and attacking the Republicans no matter what. Pandering won’t change that. But the silver lining is that folks don’t trust the MSM and there are other sources of information, so they lost the strangle hold they once had.

Here are some ugly truths you cannot get around if you’re honest:

We caused this war in October 2021.

There was no immediate need or reason for the decision we made in October 2021.

There is zero national security interest for us nor agreement/treaty in place obligating us to help.

The Russians actually DO have some legit arguments regards their own security interests once we opened the NATO membership door in this case (we just choose to ignore them - and that’s why we have a war).

Ukraine can be viewed as a civil war where we chose one side over another.

Both sides in this conflict did bad things. Both have their reasons, but we have no reason for being involved other than a big gamble. A gamble with economic interests that went South and is now costing us.

Our only reason for continuing this conflict is to make the Russians pay, but more importantly weaken their position on the global stage. The Ukrainians are in reality paying the true cost in blood and having their country torn to pieces.

Arming Ukraine as we did after the war began restarted a proxy war game that ended in 1989. Do not complain when they pay us back by arming and training folks that are a threat to us.

Time to cut our losses.

https://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/cutting-your-losses-how-to-avoid-the-sunk-cost-trap/

We gambled. We lost. Now it’s just a sunk cost.

Politicians are worried about “appearances,” what you attempt to address in your last post, they never had a real job in the case of Biden and Obama (they don’t think like a businessman), and the money they’re dealing with isn’t theirs.

You might see Biden as standing strong. I see him as a fool that made a bad decision and now can’t walk away from it, throwing more and more good money (our money) after a bad decision, a problem - HE CREATED.

Again, this was Biden: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/ Putin didn’t decide this, nor did the EU, Trump, or Mr Z. This is 100% Biden’s war.

The only difference between this screw up and Afghanistan is that in this case Biden can deflect his failure onto others, i.e. it’s all the madman Putin’s fault.

One last caveat that may help make you see things a bit different.

Putin isn’t the issue, because even if you take him out of the picture or replace him with another name and face, the same exact thing would have happened.

It’s not an issue about a man like our idiot media is making it out as: https://www.newsweek.com/2022/03/11/putin-has-never-lost-war-here-how-hell-win-ukraine-1682878.html?amp=1

It’s an issue about a bad decision we made which led to a war that was avoidable and predictable. A war that would have happened had you put anyone else in Putin’s position once we decided to go for Ukraine NATO membership. I would have done the same! And yes, if you love your country and were Russian, you would do the same.

There was no shooting until we invaded Afghanistan.

Therefore, we started the war and you can tell me all you want about OBL, that don’t matter.

There was no war until we invaded Iraq in 2003, and you can tell me all you want about their missiles, violations of no fly and wheel zones... None of that matters, we are solely responsible for this war, not Saddam Hussein since we invaded.

***Same argument you’re making.

Promise me that you’ll apply the same reasoning when we bomb or invade someone in the future?!?!? Hahaha

You just simply choose to pick the invasion as your starting point since that allows you an easy way to blame the side.

Of course just like the idea that sovereignty does not give a nation the right to ignore how others are impacted through their decisions, so is there a preamble to EVERY war and we are probably the worst on the planet in that respect (if you were to apply your reasoning here). Over the years, we have (just post WWII) bombed (not counting invasions):

Afghanistan 1998, 2001-
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Cambodia 1969-70
China 1945-46
Congo 1964
Cuba 1959-1961
El Salvador 1980s
Korea 1950-53
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
Indonesia 1958
Laos 1964-73
Grenada 1983
Iraq 1991-2000s, 2015-
Iran 1987
Korea 1950-53
Kuwait 1991
Lebanon 1983, 1984
Libya 1986, 2011-
Nicaragua 1980s
Pakistan 2003, 2006-
Palestine 2010
Panama 1989
Peru 1965
Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010-
Sudan 1998
Syria 2014-
Vietnam 1961-73
Yemen 2002, 2009-
Yugoslavia 1999

Not sure if you really should make that argument.

If you were to remove Putin, or even Russia, and put anyone or any other nation in the same position, they would have done the same thing.

YOU are the leader of Bumfuckistan and you care about your country. Someone that is hostile to you is taking swift action in making a military alliance with your neighbor and in the long term putting troops, missile defense, etc there. You have repeatedly expressed your concern and promises were made in the past that this nation hostile to you would not do this, but now they are doing it anyway. How would you react?

***If any reasonable person would do the same, is it really Russia and Putin that are the problem?***

This is Biden in 1997: https://youtu.be/A—57cFU5zM

We gambled.

We lost.

Time to cut our losses.

Sure,

And if you claim the mere fact that invading a country makes you the aggressor (prelude doesn’t matter) and we invaded 96 countries since our creation and since WWII bombed all the ones I listed earlier, what does that make us?

https://i.redd.it/w2n9ytnkhnq51.png

If reasons don’t matter, which is your argument, then we are literally the world’s worst pariah. No one (in existence) has bombed more, over thrown more governments, and invaded more than us.

So is that really the argument you want to use: Russia attacked, therefore they are automatically at fault?

Sure,

https://i.redd.it/w2n9ytnkhnq51.png

If reasons don’t matter, which is your argument, then we are literally the world’s worst pariah. No one (in existence) has bombed more, over thrown more governments, and invaded more than us.

So is that really the argument you want to use: Russia attacked, therefore they are automatically at fault?

That’s an ad hominem attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

When people have no argument, that’s what they resort to. That’s also the case in the MSM, piticians, activists... The fallacy is the refuge for those that lack a true argument.

In Afghanistan we invaded, but we were going after OBL and a regime that was aiding and abetting him.

In Iraq we invaded, but he was in violation of the missile range restrictions, no wheel and fly zones, restricted UN inspection, attempted the assassination of George H. Bush, was paying families of suicide bombers

But, I’m still waiting to hear how this war in Ukraine has any national security nexus for us?

Other than making Soros, Musk, Bezos, Gates and the usual suspects happy, what was in it for me?

Tell me, how is that money Biden is obligating in this war which made the super rich (and folks that politically back him) really happy, and I am essentially paying for, helping me?

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