Commentary on the Commentary "[o]n the Meaning of 'Natural Born Citizen'"

1/9/2016 | Farmer John

[EternalVigilance]

Quite obviously the U.S. Constitution requires that a U.S. Senator be a U.S. citizen.

I don’t know of any requirement that they ONLY be U.S. citizens, and not dual citizens of the U.S. and another country.

Of course, I’m not a lawyer, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[so_real]

If Cruz would lead the charge for judicial review with the Supremes, and meanwhile continue his campaign "in good faith" considering the similarities between his status and Obama's and Obama's successful execution of the office of President, he'd be in the clear. No matter which way the Court decided, he'd be grandfathered in as he acted in good faith, did not dodge the issue, and worked to put it before the one Court having the authority to resolve the issue. And, should America vote him into office (which I would help to do), he'd already be in office, as Obama was, prior to any decision from the high court. Like Obama, this would make him mighty difficult to retire outside of impeachment, and after eight years of Obama that isn't going to happen. It's such an easily win-able strategy, I'm genuinely surprised Cruz is instead frustrating his base with the "nothing to see here" routine.

[WTFOVR]

“Of course, I’m not a lawyer, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night.”

LOL!

[Yosemitest]

I can be just as STUPID as you can.

So I guess that means that
if there are not TWINSD born at the same time, they cannot be citizens ? < /sarc>

[Yosemitest]

I can be just as STUPID as you can.

So I guess that means that
if there are not TWINS born at the same time, they cannot be citizens ? < /sarc>

[WTFOVR]

I agree - it should go before the SCOTUS ... OTOH, considering the present composition of the Court, this prospect does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling all over - nor “a tingle up my leg.”

[Stanwood_Dave]

As every person with a Functioning Cerebral Cortex knows,
that there is the Ballot Box(i.e., voting,) then there is the Soap Box (freedom of speech,) and the Best for Last, is the Cartridge Box (i.e., guns & ammo)

It is indubitably obvious, even to the most casual observer, since Bob Dole was hosted upon the general public as a supposed "Republican" how much ground has been ceded to the left, and thus how much of America has been lost.

Each person must decide for themselves; is there a point in time or place; to re-affirm the use of the Cartridge Box.

Fellow citizens, you may wish to fool your selves, and suggest that the "Ballot Box," is still viable, I ask only: just who or now a days just what (computer, with what programming) is counting the votes.

One of their (democRATS) favorite lies is about "assault weapons," using Josh Sugarmann's famous quote, not unlike those of Jonathon Gruber, when he admitted that to pass Obamacare, they had to depend on the "stupidity of the American voter."

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin.

Thomas Jefferson, reference"tree of liberty." http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/100

Extract from Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith. Paris Nov. 13. 1787.
the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

"The democrats are playing you for a CHUMP and if you vote
for them, not only are you a CHUMP, you are a traitor
to your race!" Malcolm X.

Malcom X Shot to Death at Rally, in the Audubon Ballroom at
166th Street and Broadway, New York, on February 22, 1965.

See Reference News Story of the shooting:

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/race/022265race-ra.html

He was killed 2 days after he said this.

[so_real]

I'm in the same boat with you. SCOTUS has swung considerably away from honoring original intent over the last seven years. But ... it is the place the Framers intended these decisions to be made. So I'll honor that ... right up to the point where judicial tyranny ignites civil war two.

[WTFOVR]

CWII - We’ll call that the American War for Restoration.

if things go radically sideways, come November 2016, the present cold rebellion might become rather hot. Not the future I want to see.

[Yosemitest]

You have no comprehension of the word "Naturalization", or the laws defining it.
What is the root word of "Naturalization" ?

"Naturalize" !

Not only could the Founding Father define "natural born citizen", BUT ... THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID DEFINE IT !
And you ARE refusing the definition of "natural born citizen" CLEARLY DEFINED by our FOUNDING FATHERS !

Ted Cruz's PARENTS fulfilled ALL those requirements of the law that time, for Ted Cruz to be a "Natural Born Citizen".
Ted Cruz did NOT NEED a Court and a Judge to "Nationalize" him.

“Senator Cruz became a U.S. citizen at birth, and he never had to go through a naturalization process after birth to become a U.S. citizen,” said spokeswoman Catherine Frazier.
... The U.S. Constitution allows only a “natural born” American citizen to serve as president.
Most legal scholars who have studied the question agree that includes an American born overseas to an American parent, such as Cruz.

Oh, one more thing:

Sen. Cruz: The Real Story of What Is Happening in Washington ( 59:47 )
Published on Sep 28, 2015

It really IS worth your time.

[djf]

Well done.

I hear it over and over and over on Freerepublic, and other places, that “there are only two kinds of citizens. Naturalized or natural-born...”

This statement is so patently untrue it’s ridiculous.

[so_real]

You fall into the camp that conflates "natural born citizen" with "citizen at birth". Anchor babies are citizens at birth (by statute). Do you believe the Founders would have been okay with British aristocracy sowing their wild oats in the New World, and buying the office of POTUS using their foreign resources? Me neither. Using the language of the day commonly understood by the Founders, "natural born citizen" would not include anchor babies ... would not include all "citizens at birth".

[Yosemitest]

IRRELEVANT QUESTION.
The only definition that matters is the one GIVEN BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS.



The Naturalization Act of 1790, let's read it !

United States Congress, "An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization" (March 26, 1790).

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled,
That any Alien being a free white person,
who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years,
may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States
wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least,
and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court  that
he is a person of good character,
and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law
to support the Constitution of the United States,
which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer,
and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon;
and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. 


And the children of such person so naturalized,
dwelling within the United States,
being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization,
shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. 

And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States,
shall be considered as natural born Citizens: 
Provided, that
the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: 
Provided also, that
no person heretofore proscribed by any States, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid,
except by an Act of the Legislature of the State in which such person was proscribed.

[so_real]

I agree ... almost ... the only definition that matters is the one understood by our Founding Fathers when the Constitution was penned. For that is lens we too must apply until such time as a Constitutional amendment alters that definition. Legislation written outside the constitutional amendment process only applies to naturalization, as the Constitution grants the Congress authority over naturalization. So, when you point to legislation that grants citizenship, the term "naturalized by statute" comes to bear. Natural born citizens do not require statute to guarantee citizenship.

[WTFOVR]

You are beyond hope if you truly believe that argument will fly.

[jonrick46]

Timmy, you need to be patient. It took me a long time to read Joachim’s long commentary. Once you read it, you will understand, the question of Senator Cruz’s status as a “natural born citizen” has a huge legal hurdle. In fact, there are lots of questions.

[EternalVigilance]

D. Application for Certificate of Citizenship (�‹Form N-600�‹)�‹

�‹

A person �‹born abroad �‹who �‹acquires�‹ �‹U.S. �‹citizenship �‹at birth �‹is not required to file an Application for Certificate of Citizenship (�‹Form N-600�‹). A person who seeks documentation of such status, however, must submit an application to obtain a Certificate of Citizenship from USCIS. A person may also apply for a U.S. Passport with the Department of State to serve as evidence of his or her U.S. citizenship�‹.�‹ [14]

�‹

A person who is at least 18 years of age may submit the Application for Certificate of Citizenship on his or her own behalf. If the application is for a child who has not reached 18 years of age, the child’s �‹U.S.�‹ citizen �‹parent or �‹legal guardian must submit the application.�‹ [15]

�‹

USCIS will issue a proof of U.S. citizenship in the form of a Certificate of Citizenship if the Application for Certificate of Citizenship is approved and the person takes the Oath of Allegiance, if required to do so.�‹ [16]

�‹
E. Citizenship Interview and Waiver�‹

�‹

In general, an applicant must appear in person for an interview before a USCIS officer after filing an Application for Certificate of Citizenship. This includes the �‹U.S.�‹ citizen parent or�‹ legal �‹guardian�‹ if the application is filed on behalf of a child under 18 years of age.�‹ [17] USCIS, however, may waive the interview requirement if all the required documentation necessary to establish the applicant’s eligibility is already included in USCIS administrative records�‹,�‹ or if the �‹application is accompanied by one of the following:�‹

�‹

•Department of State Form FS�‹-�‹240 (�‹Consular �‹Report of Birth Abroad of a �‹U.S. �‹Citizen�‹)�‹;�‹
�‹

•A�‹pplicant’s �‹unexpired U�‹.S. Passport �‹issued initially for a full five�‹ or �‹ten-year period�‹;�‹ or�‹
�‹

•Certificate of N�‹aturalization of the �‹applicant’s parent�‹ or parents�‹.�‹ [18]

�‹
F. Decision and Oath of Allegiance�‹

�‹
1. Approval of Application, Oath of Allegiance, and Waiver for Children under 14 Years of Age �‹

�‹

If an officer approves the Application for Certificate of Citizenship, USCIS administers the Oath of Allegiance before issuing a Certificate of Citizenship.�‹ [19]

�‹

However, the INA permits USCIS to waive the taking of the Oath of Allegiance if USCIS determines the person is unable to understand its meaning.�‹ [20] USCIS has determined that children under the age of 14 are generally unable to understand the meaning of the oath. �‹

�‹

Accordingly, USCIS waives the oath requirement for a child younger than 14 years of age. If USCIS waives the oath requirement, USCIS issues a Certificate of Citizenship after the officer approves the application.�‹

�‹
2. Denial of Application�‹

�‹

If an officer denies the Certificate of Citizenship application, the officer must notify the applicant in writing of the reasons for denial and include information on the right to appeal in the notice.�‹ [21] An applicant may file an appeal within 30 calendar days after service of the decision (33 days if the decision was mailed).�‹

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartH-Chapter3.html

[Yosemitest]

The one "beyond hope" is the one in the mirror, staring at you in the face .

[Yosemitest]

Thank you for that correction.

[Ray76]

Thanks. And thanks to Farmer John.