Posted on 06/11/2014 3:38:23 PM PDT by jazusamo
We have one of these trucks.
I replaced the brake lines last year - all of them. Ginormous PITA, would have cost a fortune to have a mechanic do them.
I also relocated the ABS controller to an area less subject to corrosion. Found out later that GM relocated it on later model trucks to almost the exact same spot.
This was my first newish truck. Had no idea how stupid the design of the bedsides are - almost guaranteed to corrode over time. Ours went from beautiful to completely rusted through in less than a year. Of course, this isn’t just a GM problem.
The frame also rusted from the inside out in several places. Had to weld in several patches.
Worst was the rocker panels - completely eaten away as if by cancer from the inside out. I don’t know how I could have prevented this had I known it was a problem.
Now, I don’t expect vehicles to last forever, but for what GM wants (and wanted) for a new truck like we have (4x4, V8, automatic, extended cab) I expect it to be made of better materials and design. It’s not like the truck was worked hard - it’s basically a commuter vehicle.
Then there’s the failed heater control modules, the failed 4x4 modules, the multiple revisions of the steering intermediate shaft, the multiple revisions of the driveshaft yoke, ABS problems requiring replacing the front hubs, ABS problems requiring replacing the ABS module, heater cores that rust out and require the entire dashboard to be removed to replace, multiple emissions modules that fail, failing fuel level senders, gas tank straps that corrode away, door hinges that wear and cannot be replaced, multiple revisions of door latches, dash bulbs that are soldered and can’t be replaced when they burn out. And the multiple part revisions are nice - except when they all get released after the vehicle is out of warranty. I could go on, but I won’t.
IMHO, out of ignorance or on purpose, this vehicle was designed to self destruct. I mean, GM’s been making pickups for most of 100 years. Yet they don’t seem to have learned anything.
We also have an 87 Ranger with almost the exact same body rust issues. Except is has 13 more years on it before the same problems emerged.
In any event, there’s not much I can do. The truck is worthless as a trade, and GM has lost a customer forever. I’ll continue to keep it on the road as long as I can because I have to, but I won’t make the mistake again of paying GM for the privilege.
In my view this is something that GM should own. It costs a bundle to have these lines replaced by GM or an auto repair business.
These are rusting through in 6 to 7 years in a lot of cases, they are using cheap rust proofing and was not locating properly as you discovered.
Add to that the fact that regular glycol-based brake fluid is extremely hygroscopic (absorbs water), and as result the lines can rust from the inside out.
Seems reasonable. I had also considered that the quality of metal eroded due to the fluid itself.
My 1992 Honda accord never needed new brakes lines. It lasted to 332,373 miles before the engine block cracked.
Interesting about copper. At first I thought you were absolutely nuts. Then the Swagelok site told me that the pressure limit for 1/8 copper tubing is 1/8 2,700 psi for 0.028 inch wall, 3,000 psi for 0.030 wall, and 3,600 psi for 0.035 wall. Maximum brake line pressure is typically 2,000 psi. Color me amazed.
I didn't know that copper lines were used on vehicles until the 30s.
“At first I thought you were absolutely nuts. “
That’s normal. (grin)
Copper is some amazing stuff as I’ve witnessed in the A/C, Refrigeration and plumbing fields over many years of working with it.
Hey, thanks for the specs. BTW.
Never had it fail under tremendous abuse of off-roading. Double flares nicely.
Where did you get that copper nickel stuff? Expensive?
“The “copper/nickel” BMW brake lines you mentioned are stainless steel ,, those are the two ingredients you add to steel to make stainless.”
LOL, thought about that after I posted inquiring about them. Stainless it is.
bfl
Automotive brake lines are indeed manufactured from cupro-nickel on some high-end cars. Volvo, Rolls Royce, Lotus, Aston Martin, Porsche and Audi all use Copper-Nickel alloy C70600, an alloy of 90% copper and 10% nickel.
Stainless also work hardens due to vibration and then tends to crack. Some alloys are better than others.
I've only seen one instance of brake lines rusting out. Usually the ill effects show up first as damage to the bores of the master and wheel cylinders
Just remember. All components go to the cheapest bidder. If the cheaper supplier uses inferior products that save $1, guess what. That being said. Either the engineer specified the wrong material (unlikely), the supplier gave the wrong material (likely but not deliberately), or the Chinese supplier of the tubing to the supplier gave the wrong tubing (most likely and deliberately).
This coming from an aircraft production engineer in a previous life.
“Stainless also work hardens due to vibration and then tends to crack. Some alloys are better than others.”
So does copper. Saw that a lot in refrigeration applications near compressors. As you say, you have to design the alloy to the application or mitigate the vibration issue in some way.
With copper, we installed vibration eliminators in the line and with capillary tubes we coiled them carefully and applied a bead of silicone RTV across the coils to keep the coils from rubbing on one another.
Typical trip to the parts store for a GM vehicle:
Customer: I need a (fill in the blank) for a 20XX Chevy XXXXXX, 5.0 liter V8 with power steering and A/C.
Parts department counterman: Two or four wheel drive?
Cust: Two wheel drive.
PDCM: Regular or extended cab?
C: Extended cab.
PDCM: Towing package?
C: I dunno. I'll have to check.
Later
C: OK, it has the towing package, I think.
PDCM: Does it have self leveling?
C: I dunno. Let me check.
Later
C: No, it doesn't have that.
Was it built in the U.S. or Canada?
C: Sh!t, I don't know.
PDCM: What's the VIN number?
C (getting slightly irritated): I'll have to check.
Later
OK, the VIN number is XXXXXXXXXXXXX.
PDCM: OK. What's the build date?
C (getting highly irritated): Hell, I don't know! How do I find out?
PDCM: Check the door sticker.
C: OK, I'll be right back.
Later
C: It says ten, twenty-three, oh three.
PDCM: Morning or afternoon?
Problems with corroded brake lines MUCH more prevalent in GM vehicles. Google it or check NHTSA website. The 2004 model noted was in the accident in 2012, that’s 8 years. Many more incidents starting in the sixth and seventh year of service.
Subaru had a similar issue and they recalled the vehicles.
Subaru vehicles were subject to brake line corrosion in “seven or more winter seasons,” about when GM truck brake lines start to rust out. Subaru obviously has a higher standard on safety and quality than GM. But who doesn’t?
Well said, couldn’t agree more. If most all cars and trucks were having these issues in the colder climates I’d go with the maintenance thing but this is prevalent in GM trucks.
In my view they have an inferior part problem as well as the system locations.
Nope. It had thick wall aluminum lines.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.