Posted on 01/20/2014 1:42:16 PM PST by mhutcheson
Don’t feel bad Reb. I voted for McCain and Romney too.
Incorrect.
The South mandated equal pay for all soldiers, Black and White alike.
Citation please
The North paid Black soldiers $10/mo minus a $3/mo clothing fee, while Whites weren’t charged a clothing fee and were salaried at $13/mo, effecting about a 46% pay cut for Blacks in the North.
Citation please
The Confederacy had already outlawed overseas slave trade by 1863 and allowed individual states to outlaw slavery.
There's nothing in the cornfederate constitution that spoke to allowing individual states to outlaw slavery. To the contrary, there was explicit verbiage that prevented any individual state from interfering in the practice by any other state:
Article IV Section 2(1) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.Union states still had legalized slavery at least 3 years after the War in Missouri, Maryland, Delaware and Kentucky.
Not true. The Thirteenth Amendment was adopted on December 6, 1865
The South wasn’t without racism as declared in his “Cornerstone Speech”. Vice President Alexander Stephens, declared that the “cornerstone” of the new government “rest[ed] upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
OK
It should also be noted that the Emancipation Proclamation failed to remove Indentured Servitude as a legitimate form of slavery for whites.
That's because it didn't have the power to do so.
Historians of the period noted the White indentured servers were frequently maltreated to the point of death, whereas Black slaves were well provided because they were a longer term investment. The indentured servitude might only last 3-10 years, whereas the slave was considered property of his owner to be properly cared for as human livestock.
Irrelevant
White slavery and indentured servitude far exceeded Black slavery in North America through about mid 1600s, and by 1700, about 45% of immigrants were indentured servants, with white slaves and indentured servants numbering about the same and Black slaves in N America. (S America and Latin speaking areas were much more heavily Black slave numbered than the N American English areas)
I doubt it but nonetheless irrelevant
Hey Poindexter, here’s an example of what I’m talking about. Check out ‘’central va’’s post #279.
You said it.
Words are tumbling out of your mouth and you have no idea what they mean. That's the only thing I can conclude from this conversation.
Your reference to post 279 is equally nonsensical. I fail to see what bearing it has on the insult you leveled at Southern Freepers -- and yes, it was an insult. Google the word, 'Dixiecrat' if you think it wasn't.
Enough.
Thanks for conceding the point. And the argument. Fini.
Windflier is correct Jmacusa - Dixicrat was a specific term given to southern democrats who voted Republican in order to oppose Truman. The term only came into use in 1948. It isn’t synonymous with “southerner” or “southern conservative”
I don’t doubt that most of our southern FRiends - like Windflier here - are conservatives....just like I don’t doubt that FRiends from northern states are conservatives as well.
So in your original comment about the 19th century south being democrat - that’s true - but the second part about contemporary southern conservatives - that’s not accurate.
“Lincoln view the USA as an empire not a republic.”
That is a completely false claim. “We are a great empire” was a factual statement about the Republic having overall sovereignty over vast domains of states, territories, and possessions. Historically the Athenian republic was also characterized as a great empire despite having no monarchial rulers at the time. Lincoln was using the word in that context as was allowed for in the dictionaries of his era.
Empires are typically assumed to be monarchial in nature because there were so few Republics in his preceding history and fewer still that were Republics having no monarch as its soverign ruler. The United States was the notable exception which Lincoln was recognizing in his statement about the exceptionalism of the United States of America.
“He also wanted to keep the territories for ‘free white men’.”
No, that is not the meaning of what Lincoln had to say, because you are misreading it. The quoatation, “they should be kept open for the homes of free white people,” was a phrase meant to indicate the new state or states should not have their land taken up by pro-slavery plantations and owners who would use their greater access to large amounts of debt capital based upon slave labor to deny these lands to the free white farmers who lacked the fiscal advantages associated with slavery. Free non-white farmers, ranchers, and others were already taking advantage of the freedoms available in the territories of the West unavailable in the Eastern states, so the phrasing could not have excluded what was already present.
Those are disgraceful words for ANY President to utter. In Lincoln's case he RULED like he thought he was Caesar so what he said is fitting-for him.
Thomas Jefferson coined the term "Empire of Liberty" to describe the United States. Do you find that offensive too?
I don’t think any President should use the word empire to describe the USA. Empire of Liberty, I guess....
I've conceded nothing, and this isn't an argument. It's my objection to your stupid slandering of Southern Freepers, and your refusal to admit it and apologize.
Any halfwit reading this exchange can see that.
Ok fine.I concede the point. I’ll admit I should have narrowed it down then’’rockrr’’ to those southerners who seem to only show up on these Civil War threads almost piously claiming to be ‘’conservatives’’ yet swoon all over Lee and Davis and the Confederacy.That only tells me they’re phonies at the very least or hypocrites in the extreme. The prevailing message in all these Civil War threads that I’ve seen here is a slight bow to the flaw in the Souths reasons for the War but the not too subtle message that somehow ‘’The (Lost) Cause’’ was some noble effort on the part of the gentlemanly, agricultural South to preserve and maintain some sort of a near Camelot-like existence of kindly white masters and happy darkies in the face of the brutal, industrial North and all those horrible Yankees and well, quite frankly it pisses me off. Perhaps I’ve missed those threads that give a different perspective on The Civil War like maybe some Southern historian maybe apologizing for the destruction, death and misery caused by those Southern plutocrats and their ‘’cause’’. And as for Dixiecrats? Well sorry to say but George Wallace, Lester Maddox, Ross Barnett and others like them, be gone from this earth are still of recent memory to make that term relevant. I’ll stop using it when those Southerners stop throwing around epithets like “Yankee’’(never liked that word) and “Lincoln bootlicker’’ among others. Fair enough?
You seem to be the only southern FReeper offended chum. Don’t you think that’s assuming a bit much to speak for so many others? Have a look at the post underneath this one and then do me a favor put a sock in it, ok Reb?
Don't be an ass. Just because this thread is now buried, and few are reading it, doesn't make your insult any less offensive. If you'd made the same comment at the top of a new thread that attracted lots of attention, you'd now be surrounded by pissed off posters.
You seem like a smart fella, but you've got people issues. You're plainly in the wrong here, but can't admit it. Whatever. I'm done.
“People issues’’? Hardly. We never more accurately describe the nature of ourselves than when we are attempting to describe the nature of another as you’ve been doing to me all afternoon. In closing, learn to speak for yourself by yourself and don’t assume you speak for so many others unless you’ve been asked to. Adios.
Nice try, but I didn't make you out to be an inconsiderate, unmanly boor. You did that all by yourself. The proof is in the thread, for anyone who cares to look.
Later.
Are you ever going to shut up?
Excuse me? I'm merely replying to you. You might try refraining from posting to me. I bet that'll work.
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