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To: SampleMan
Once again, you're simply assuming that the Confederates were right and ignoring opposing arguments -- that because they were "nice enough" not to lay claim to free states the US should let them have their way with the slave states, regardless of how strong unionist sentiment was in those states.

You may know that Virginia's convention rejected secession by a large margin before the beginning of the war. It was only after Sumter and Lincoln's call for troops that the secession measure went through. According to the secessionist version any number of votes for union wouldn't count, but one vote for secession would be decisive.

In the convention and in the later referendum, counties that became part of West Virginia later rejected secession. If you're looking for an expression of the right to self-determination, that could be a good example. And after two years of war, who's to say how Virginians would have voted?

Two more points: 1) Just what was and what wasn't a "Border State" was largely a function of the war. Virginia and Tennessee were divided over the question of secession. Every Southern state provided troops to the Union Army, and except for South Carolina some of those troops were actually White and free before the war. 2) The question of "self-determination" is a little tricky here. If a county was 50% or 60% or 70% enslaved or a state was 30% or 40% or 50% enslaved, just what "self-determination" meant could get quite complicated.

In any event, West Virginia statehood is reversible. If it was such a crime and horror, West Virginians and Virginians certainly have the possibility of undoing it. Congress probably wouldn't stand in the way.

What was done made a mockery of the Constitution pure and simple.

The Constitution that the Confederates rejected and thought themselves to be outside of? You may be one of those people who assumes that a state government could simply say, "Now all of a sudden I am outside of the Union and the Constitution doesn't apply to me," but isn't it inconsistent to say that in some sense it still does apply when it is to your advantage? You may question the justice of what was done, but it certainly was constitutionally valid given the circumstances.

First, take a look at the map.

Square acres don't vote. People do. But my point was more that post-election malcontents should act with caution, not trumpet about that they are half the country and entitled to form another country.

Second, had the South had the industrial base, they would have won.

If those states had the industrial base they probably wouldn't have seceded. Go back to Wigfall's speech. He didn't want an industrial base. It would have been too hard to control.

I was correct the first time about the character of someone who hangs their hat on the legitimacy of a puppet government.

Because I disagree with you? It sounds more like your own character is questionable.

319 posted on 01/15/2014 2:28:23 PM PST by x
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To: x
It was only after Sumter and Lincoln's call for troops that the secession measure went through.

So you acknowledge then the war was not about slavery. Good.

322 posted on 01/15/2014 4:52:23 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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