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Is There Something Wrong With The Term: "War Between the States?"
Old Virginia Blog ^ | 01-06-2014 | Richard G. Williams, Jr.

Posted on 01/11/2014 11:16:07 AM PST by Davy Buck

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To: driftless2

-— In short, the idea of unilateral secession is lunacy. It was lunacy then, it would be lunacy now. -—

Dunno. Makes perfect sense to me. A majority vote would be sufficient for me.


141 posted on 01/11/2014 3:23:24 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: Sherman Logan

>>Since I do not believe the South was in any way being deprived in 1860 of their rights to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,”

The federal government had determined that the only ports of entry for European immigrants was in the north, so northern businesses had easy access to a cheap and easily-exploited labor source. There were also tariffs and laws to make it hard for southern states to ship their goods directly, requiring them to go through northern businesses.

The industrialized and commercialized north had decided that the southern states were to remain poor and agricultural and to be subservient to them for finished and imported goods.

If the south could have gotten Irish and other poor immigrants fresh off the boat to work in their fields, I’m sure that they would have sent the blacks back to Africa. After all, renting labor for slave wages is much cheaper than the cost of ownership. Because, that’s exactly what motivated the northern states to suddenly become anti-slavery after a century of making money off their import.


142 posted on 01/11/2014 3:25:26 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Davy Buck

Yes, that’s what the losers call it.


143 posted on 01/11/2014 3:25:50 PM PST by frithguild (The warmth and goodness of Gaia is a nuclear reactor in the Earth's core that burns Thorium)
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To: Sherman Logan
Not only did the South not want to grant freedom to slaves (since like Alexander Stephens said, slavery was the cornerstone of the Confederacy), but they did even want to grant freedom to slaves who would fight for the Confederacy.

Confederate generals Patrick Cleburne and the great Robert E. Lee were for plans to give freedom to slaves who fought for the South. They were given a hearing and summarily turned down. Because freedom for slaves was against what most Southerners stood for.

I don't know if the South could have found enough slaves to fight for them with their freedom as a prize, but the fact that Cleburne and Lee were given short shrift proves what the South was fighting for...slavery.

144 posted on 01/11/2014 3:28:40 PM PST by driftless2
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To: CodeToad

If I’m not mistaken the British were supplying weapons etc, like the 1853 Rifled musket.

Machinery and Money? How so?

As far as men I will give you that. And the few men we have up here? We will be down to help ya’ll


145 posted on 01/11/2014 3:38:27 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Pollster1
I enjoy using an older title: “War of Northern Aggression”

I like, "The War of Kicking the Slave Owning Moron's Ass."

146 posted on 01/11/2014 3:40:16 PM PST by frithguild (The warmth and goodness of Gaia is a nuclear reactor in the Earth's core that burns Thorium)
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To: Sherman Logan
Sure, the South might have won the battle, but the longer the war went on, the more the South was doomed. Even Shelby Foote recognized that. He stated that the North was basically fighting the war with one hand tied behind its back. The South could not win a long, drawn out war of attrition.

The much larger population and the fact that the North was much further ahead in manufacturing capabilities and materiel doomed the South. (Although the South never lost a battle for lack of ammunition.) In fact, from some sources I've read, if the North had used available repeating Henry rifles at the start of the war, it might have ended after a few battles. Lots of what ifs.

But basically the South's only chance was a kind of delaying action that might make the war weary Northern population give up. Lincoln was afraid of that with all the Copperheads twisting public opinion. But after Grant took Vicksburg and Sherman marched through the deep South, the game was mostly over. The South had great generals and great soldiers...just not enough of them.

147 posted on 01/11/2014 3:45:07 PM PST by driftless2
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To: ctdonath2
"without Southern aggression"

Basically, without slavery there would have been no war. Slavery was the single, outstanding cause of the conflict.

148 posted on 01/11/2014 3:46:29 PM PST by driftless2
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To: Vaquero

The north had the machines the south did not have. The north had 90% of all manufacturing and most of the railroads. The north had three times the population. The north had ten times the money the south did.


149 posted on 01/11/2014 3:46:32 PM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: CodeToad

See my response #140.


150 posted on 01/11/2014 3:50:04 PM PST by driftless2
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

It makes perfect sense. Really? Think hard. What if you’re living in a state that’s about 50-50 lib-conservative? But the libs get a slight majority and vote to secede and establish Cuba North. Do you think that’s logical?


151 posted on 01/11/2014 3:58:18 PM PST by driftless2
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To: driftless2

-— Do you think that’s logical? -—

As long as residents are allowed to flee, I don’t have a problem.

But i don’t think it will be easy to get a majority to vote for secession, even if the population is 60% moonbat, for example.


152 posted on 01/11/2014 4:03:42 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: Pollster1

“I enjoy using an older title: “War of Northern Aggression”.”

I lean that way also. But today I think we could call it the War to End The Police State.


153 posted on 01/11/2014 4:05:35 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Except there really wasn’t a police state.


154 posted on 01/11/2014 4:11:54 PM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12----No king but Christ! Don't tread on me!)
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To: driftless2

The same could be said of joining the union; that the nuts could join against the will of the people.


155 posted on 01/11/2014 4:26:17 PM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: GeronL
Korea used to have a large caste of state slaves

Isn't every person in North Korea essentially a slave?

156 posted on 01/11/2014 4:49:49 PM PST by Mark17 (Chicago Blackhawks: Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013. Vietnam Veteran, 70-71)
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To: CodeToad

I meant NOW not the 1860s


157 posted on 01/11/2014 4:58:10 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: CodeToad

There was no tyranny - except that coming from the slavrocracy. The south had full voice in Congress, and had held the presidency more often than not. That the had a temper tantrum and a meltdown when they didn’t get their way is telling.


158 posted on 01/11/2014 4:59:30 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: driftless2

But basically the South’s only chance was a kind of delaying action that might make the war weary Northern population give up.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, I have wondered about that. What if the South had never used the traditional warfare practices of the day, but, had waged a low simmering guerrilla war instead. They might have won and those in the North grew weary,


159 posted on 01/11/2014 5:10:30 PM PST by wintertime
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

“But today I think we could call it the War to End The Police State.”

Key word is today.


160 posted on 01/11/2014 5:13:47 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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