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Debunking the "Four Cities" Murder Myth
Gun Watch ^ | 30 September, 2013 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 09/30/2013 7:22:16 AM PDT by marktwain

 

Urban decay in Detroit from Imgur 

There is an urban myth floating around the Internet under some variation of the  the title:   The United States is ranked 3rd in Murders throughout the World. But, if you remove just 4 cities from the statistics :


The United States is 3rd in

murders throughout the

world.

But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the

bottom for

murders.

These 4

cities also have the toughest

gun

control

laws in the United States.

This tell you anything?

PS: These cities are also run by DEMOCRATS! Imagine that.

The assertions in the above sound plausible, but they are false.  The United States is not "3rd in murders throughout the world."   This list, though incomplete, shows that their are dozens of countries with intentional homicide rates much higher than the United States, including Russia, Jamaica, South Africa, Brazil,  Ukraine, Latvia, Georgia, and many others.

The crime rate has been dropping in the United States, so the numbers should be even lower now, but looking at the numbers for 2011 shows these numbers of murders in the four cities mentioned:

Chicago murders, 2011 - 431  (The numbers moved up in 2012 to 532)

Detroit murders 2011 - 344

Washington D.C. murders, 2011 - 108

 New Orleans murders 2011 - 200

While Chicago murders are up about a hundred in 2012, it does not make a large difference in the analysis.   The four cities listed have a total of 1,083 murders in 2011.   Total murders for 2011 in the United States were 14,612.  The 1,083 is only 7.4% of the total.  This is not enough of a change to move the position of the  United States international standing on the rate of murder very much, let along from the mythical "third from the top" to the equally mythical "4th from the bottom".

As with many myths, there is a kernel of truth in the underlying idea.  If you remove the subcultures from the United States that do not originate in Europe, and have no significant numbers in Europe (African American and American Hispanics) the murder rate for the United States falls into the middle of European murder rates.

  ©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.

Link to Gun Watch


TOPICS: Education; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; fourcities; guncontrol; murder; secondamendment
One of the biggest advantages that second amendment supporters have is that the facts back up our positions.

Using false mythologies for our arguments damages the credibility of those who are trying to restore the constitution.

1 posted on 09/30/2013 7:22:17 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

One of the biggest implied myths by the anti-gun people is that the mere possession of a firearm turns a normally peaceful, non-violent person into an unstable, jittery, trigger-happy, imminent killer. Movies have been made to that effect (Blue Steel) and innocent, peaceful people made suspect by the simple fact of owning a firearm.


2 posted on 09/30/2013 7:29:39 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: marktwain

New Orleans doesn’t have tough gun laws. They don’t have any legal gun stores though. Most guns used in crime there are bought through straw purchases. A solid effort to crack down on them could nab most of them. The ATF doesn’t care about that though.


3 posted on 09/30/2013 7:30:15 AM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: marktwain
If you remove the subcultures from the United States that do not originate in Europe, and have no significant numbers in Europe (African American and American Hispanics) . . .

America would be a pretty safe place. That is the takeaway point. Here in S. Louis, for example, virtually 100% of murders are committed by blacks.

4 posted on 09/30/2013 7:31:15 AM PDT by Charles Henrickson (St. Louis County, Missouri)
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To: marktwain
Using false mythologies for our arguments damages the credibility of those who are trying to restore the constitution.

Well done. The truth is always more compelling. Unfortunately, there are too many, left and right, who feel the need to embellish, or to repeat unsupportable hearsay.

5 posted on 09/30/2013 7:31:41 AM PDT by newheart (The worst thing the Left ever did was to convince the world it was not a religion.)
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To: marktwain

Aren’t the four cities mentioned considered to be mostly gun-free?

What the hell are they doing there — poisoning each other?


6 posted on 09/30/2013 7:32:27 AM PDT by 353FMG ( I don't say whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: marktwain
As with many myths, there is a kernel of truth in the underlying idea. If you remove the subcultures from the United States that do not originate in Europe, and have no significant numbers in Europe (African American and American Hispanics) the murder rate for the United States falls into the middle of European murder rates.

DUH!
Why am I not at all surprised that there are "no significant numbers" of African Americans and American Hispanics in EUROPE?!?!?!

Using false mythologies for our arguments damages the credibility of those who are trying to restore the constitution.

So does using ridiculous PC terminology.

7 posted on 09/30/2013 7:36:14 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: marktwain
'But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans, the United States is 4th from the bottom for murders.'

Plain silly. If ya remove the top 4 cities from the other countries as well, they would have even less murders as well.

Then see how the US ranks against them then.

8 posted on 09/30/2013 7:54:03 AM PDT by Theoria
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To: Theoria; All

“Plain silly. If ya remove the top 4 cities from the other countries as well, they would have even less murders as well.”

Yes, it maybe silly, but I heard a speaker at the Gun Rights Policy Conference state it as fact. That type of hyperbole does not help us.


9 posted on 09/30/2013 8:29:45 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: Roccus; All

Roccus posted:

“DUH!
Why am I not at all surprised that there are “no significant numbers” of African Americans and American Hispanics in EUROPE?!?!?!”

“So does using ridiculous PC terminology.”

marktwain replies:

Please tell us what terminology you would use for those cultural groups.


10 posted on 09/30/2013 8:33:07 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain

You’ve got a point.

I put myself off on a tangent.


11 posted on 09/30/2013 9:10:53 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: marktwain
Most murders are in a few select areas. It's a good argument to use, but it needs to be used properly.

Offenses by jurisdiction - Michigan 2012

Michigan (9-10 Million population) - 628

Those with over 5 are: Detroit (700,000) - 355
Flint (105,000) - 58
Saginaw (51,000) - 23
Grand Rapids (190,000) - 16
Oakland County Sheriff's jurisdiction - 16 (80-90% of those are Pontiac - 60,000)
Lansing (115,000) - 12
Kalamazoo (75,000) - 9
Inkster (25,000) - 9
Battle Creek (52,000) - 8
Highland Park (11,000) - 6

514 out of the 628 are in cities combined of 1.38 million people. Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw combined are 436. Add Pontiac and it's probably about 450. Interesting the only "suburbs" here with 5 or more homicides are Pontiac, Highland Park, and Inkster. All are extremely ghetto.

The other 100,000 big cities in Michigan - all suburbs outside of Ann Arbor: Warren - 134,000 - 0
Sterling Heights - 130,000 - 1
Ann Arbor - 113,000 - 1
And because people here are obsessed with Dearborn, they had 1 homicide and has about 95,000 people.

12 posted on 09/30/2013 9:17:10 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (Abortion - legalized murder for convenience)
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To: Roccus

You are gratious.


13 posted on 09/30/2013 10:52:02 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain
HEY!! I've been called a lot in my life.....but NEVER gratious!!!
};^)

14 posted on 09/30/2013 10:57:32 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: marktwain

And if you took out “black” crime from the stats, we are probably the safest country in the world.
Blacks kill 7X more than whites kill. Blacks kill whites 20X more than whites kill blacks. Blacks assault/ mug whites 50X more than whites assault/ mug blacks. AND blacks RAPE white women 1000’s(yes, thousands) of times more than white men rape black women. There hasn’t been a black woman raped in NYC by a white man in anybodies memory, 20-30 years. Think Al Sharpton.There are 100’s of white woman raped in NYC by blacks every year. Google “Color of Crime” a research report


15 posted on 09/30/2013 11:23:51 AM PDT by capt B
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To: capt B; All

“AND blacks RAPE white women 1000’s(yes, thousands) of times more than white men rape black women. There hasn’t been a black woman raped in NYC by a white man in anybodies memory, 20-30 years. Think Al Sharpton.There are 100’s of white woman raped in NYC by blacks every year. Google “Color of Crime” a research report.”

Wow. I remember a TV show some years ago that featured a rape. Sure enough, it was a white man raping a black woman...

And we thought the old Soviet Union had a problem with Pravda!


16 posted on 09/30/2013 12:26:24 PM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks marktwain.
As with many myths, there is a kernel of truth in the underlying idea. If you remove the subcultures from the United States that do not originate in Europe, and have no significant numbers in Europe (African American and American Hispanics) the murder rate for the United States falls into the middle of European murder rates.

17 posted on 09/30/2013 4:23:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Bookmark


18 posted on 10/03/2013 12:09:16 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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