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“When The Real Crash Comes It Will Be Worse Than the Great Depression” (Shortened)
SHTF Plan | 4/30/13 | Mac Slavo

Posted on 04/30/2013 3:08:21 AM PDT by Kartographer

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To: DeaconRed

Just by the by...How much of Obamacare was actually written after the thing was passed? If no one read it before voting on it then they voted on a carte blanche shell into which anything at all could be stuffed after the fact. I think we will find out that there is a whole lot more in there than anybody imagined, except, of course, the leftists who designed the shell.


51 posted on 04/30/2013 5:49:07 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: Teacher317

My 401 got hammered and has still not recovered fully. I also had some major medical bills for a child that cost me. I changed jobs recently and cashed in my 401 and paid off all debt. Sold the house and and am currently leasing so I am not tied down.

Over the last couple years I have bought ammo and some dry goods and basically sitting on what is left of the cash and buying some hard assets.


52 posted on 04/30/2013 5:51:10 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

That is what I am afraid we will be seeing in the near future, the age of the libertarian. I do not like the libertarian concept, not hot enough to bring you warmth when its cold, not refreshingly cold when the temps are too high.

dammed in the middle of the road politicians getting wacked by oversized mirrors of big rigs all day long, too stupid to get in either lane.

Where would I go?
Being stuck in Alaska I have no more options, my back is against the wall so to speak, lands end, cannot realistically go to Canada even. cannot go to warmer Caribbean waters like Travis McGee, and there won’t be any battlefield in Alaska either, no repeat of Lexington or Concord.


53 posted on 04/30/2013 5:51:46 AM PDT by Spartan302 (Spartans never quit, they come back later with more warriors.)
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To: Spartan302

My idea hiding spot would be out around Glenallen.


54 posted on 04/30/2013 6:19:45 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: DeaconRed

But, but FOX news just said all markers are showing that Bernake’s fast printing machine is holding us up and is working. That everyone is feeling good about the economy these days. Where’s my rose colored glasses?


55 posted on 04/30/2013 6:21:48 AM PDT by bgill (The problem is...no one is watching the Watch List!)
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To: Psalm 73
There will be no other place to "ride it out".

Yes, and being the foreigner, especially the American foreigner, will put a target on your back in many places.

56 posted on 04/30/2013 6:30:49 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS
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To: cuban leaf

That is a very cogent point. Our small town grocery store will be out of business because I rarely see anyone pay with anything other than food stamps. I see people in line, yukking it up with their cell phone plastered to their ear and tattoos and body piercings galore, not a care in the world. They are buying more and better food than I can afford and they are driving nicer cars than I am. What is really bad is they usually have a wad of EBT cards from different states. When things get bad I will not shed a tear for them as they have left themselves helpless to provide for themselves. They think it is OK to live off the labor of others. When they go hungry it will be justice. I do feel sorry for their kids though.

Our Walmart will also be out of business, such is the number of people paying with EBT cards.


57 posted on 04/30/2013 6:31:59 AM PDT by albionin
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To: arthurus

Oh thank you very much for that sweetly good thought. You are right though, Anyone could write in anything they wanted to after the fact and no one would know it. Great, something else to stress about.


58 posted on 04/30/2013 6:38:17 AM PDT by albionin
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To: Venturer
At 70 my ability is a bit limited.

The value of your wisdom and experience is unlimited.

I'll turn 59 in about 10 days. Last October, I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. I firmly believe it was God's way of telling me to "WAKE UP!!!"

Changed my entire outlook on life. Six months later, I've shed about 30 lbs (another 15 to go), changed my eating regimen (Eat to Live by Joel Fuhrman), more conscientious about exercise. Was on metformin from diagnosis to first followup, removed after my H1b dropped from 11 to 4.6. It's a struggle, but I'm keeping the blood glucose readings in the 100-110 range without medication.

Why do I bring this up? My children and grandson need me to be there to provide them with my leadership, guidance, and wisdom during these tenuous times. It's no longer about how I live the rest of my life, it's how to equip them with the tools they'll need to survive, and thrive, now and in the future.

Remain of good cheer, and excel in your role as the patriarch of your family.

59 posted on 04/30/2013 6:47:05 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: IYAS9YAS
"Yes, and being the foreigner, especially the American foreigner, will put a target on your back in many places."

Obama and the Republicrat single party are bringing that description to the US, as well.

60 posted on 04/30/2013 6:48:56 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: bgill

Try listening to FOX Business
Neil Cavuto, Stuart Varney, Gerri Willis, Lou Dobbs et al

They all know better


61 posted on 04/30/2013 6:48:59 AM PDT by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Kartographer
Eventually interest rates will rise… and when they do, Schiff says, stocks will tank and bonds dip to nothing. Massive new tax hikes will be imposed and programs and entitlements will be cut to the bone.

The latter isn't a bad thing - too bad they can't do it now and avoid the inevitable.
62 posted on 04/30/2013 6:53:19 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: Kartographer
So much so that the government has been simulating the collapse of our financial system, the collapse of our society and the potential for widespread violence.

That explains them buying up MREs and now, ammo.
63 posted on 04/30/2013 6:54:05 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: Kartographer; All
In an inflationary scenario wouldn't the drop in the market be temporary? Wouldn't the stock prices become inflated as well?

I do think the economy is tanking under these dangerous circumstances and I do expect the stock market to crash, but I'm wondering how long lived the crash would be.

Can any economists out there explain to me how the stock market could remain flat in an inflationary environment?

64 posted on 04/30/2013 7:00:02 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: Venturer
I agree with Schiff that we are heading for disaster, I only wish I knew how to save my savings.

Me too. Here's my plan, if TSTHF in 3 years or more. If it's sooner than that, then I'm screwed. Move to a rural area and buy 40-50 acres, some tillable but mostly wooded. I'll need the wood for heating and cooking and 10 acres would grow/raise everything I need for food. Buy 1 or 2 rentals, low cost ones and putting only 20% down, so the tenants pay the rest. That way, if property prices fall, I'm only out the 20%. If, as Schiff says, interest rates rise and the dollar falls, tangibles should go up in price. If anyone has money to pay for them, that is. Cheap housing should do ok. Got some PMs bought at a low price years ago. I'm hanging into them, no matter what. And may buy more if the price dips even more. Other than that - I'm not sure what to do with the cash that is left and will evaporate. If you come up with anything good, left me know!
65 posted on 04/30/2013 7:05:27 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: Spartan302
Alaskans used to be conservative.

Sorry to hear it has changed. Guess I'll cross her off my 'move-to' list.
66 posted on 04/30/2013 7:07:22 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: cuban leaf
I’m already seeing it speed up. Even NPR’s in depth report yesterday about the fallout from obamacare was extremely gloomy. And yes, I think Obamacare could be the straw that broke the camels back, mainly because it’s really a bundle of rebar. Extra thick.

NPR turned on their Messiah? Amazing.
67 posted on 04/30/2013 7:09:38 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: yorkiemom

I’m in the same boat...I need about 4-5 years to put my plan in place. As a Texas vet, I qualify for a loan from the TX Veterans Land Board. I’m looking for something in the 10 acre range, and construct a 3/4 acre to 1 acre stocked pond.


68 posted on 04/30/2013 7:11:22 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The Tea Party was the earthquake, and Chick Fil A the tsunami...100's of aftershocks to come.)
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To: cuban leaf
Yep. It’s why I moved to my small farm in central KY in the spirit of Revelation 18:4

Neat. We're looking at eastern KY. Beautiful area, cheap acreage, and nice, nice people.
69 posted on 04/30/2013 7:12:22 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: Night Hides Not; Venturer
The value of your wisdom and experience is unlimited.

I'll turn 59 in about 10 days. Last October, I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. I firmly believe it was God's way of telling me to "WAKE UP!!!"


I have to 2nd that. The younger generations will have the deer-in-the-headlights approach when things get bad. They've never had to do without and think the gravy train is indefinite. It's only the older folks that even remember anything about the Great Depression and making do and persevering. And doing it with good cheer.

And I'm with you, NHN, on taking care of ourselves. I had the same wakeup call with cholesterol. Being cheap, I didn't want to have to pay the copay for cholesterol medicine, so decided to control it myself. My doctor was amazed how I got my LDL from 157 to 117 in 8 weeks. We have to not only be good examples, but be around to help when the time comes.
70 posted on 04/30/2013 7:18:49 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: old and tired

You make good points.

Under the Weimar Republic, the prices of products rose of course - so quickly that manufacturers didn’t want to take orders at a set price or they’d lose money. But the price of their stock would be based on their profits, not just the price of their product. So, I’m not sure how it works. Hopefully someone out there will explain it.


71 posted on 04/30/2013 7:21:12 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: reformedliberal
States and counties determine property taxes.

That's partially correct (for now). Actually, federal judges regularly impose property taxes from the bench by judicial fiat to provide school district "equality."

 More important for the future, however, is the power of a broke state and federal government to tax whatever they wish. Landowners are an easy target for taxes...and don't be surprised to see a federal property tax and high state property taxes post-SHTF.

72 posted on 04/30/2013 7:22:56 AM PDT by peyton randolph (FUBO and his wookie beard)
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To: Night Hides Not

Hopefully, this thing is held at bay for a few years so we get the time we need.

A stocked pond sounds great - easy dinner! Does it replenish itself over the years?

I have a Plan B, but it’s iffy. We have a cabin in the Sierras - to escape the liberal hordes in Mexifornia. But I’d really hate to be in this state when it all falls apart. I need to get near some conservative, can-do types to feel less jittery. There ‘might’ be a job opportunity in Idaho coming up - which would be exciting for the next 3 or so years. Totally different than anything I’ve ever experienced and just beautiful. And hardy, armed people! I guess that’s my Plan B. The cabin is Plan C - or always the last plan in my list.

Are you already in Texas? That would be a good start, if so.


73 posted on 04/30/2013 7:25:22 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: old and tired
Here's an interesting article:

How Stocks Performed During the Weimar Republic Hyperinflation

It's short and sweet, and low on data though.

I was wondering myself what to do with my savings. I'm in the market partially now - on a very conservative basis. And it's done well, better than the 0.5% I get with the rest of my savings. Seems Schiff is saying that AFTER interest rates rise, then stocks will tank. So we'll have a warning of when to pull out - if that's what we want to do.
74 posted on 04/30/2013 7:31:53 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: Truth29
Switzerland comes to mind.

There are plenty of places to ride it out. When the U.S. implodes, there will be a pile-on effect by its enemies. 

Some countries, like Switzerland, will not be a target. They will make do with what they have and survive.

The question becomes one of timing and options. Where can you go, and will you have everything in place to get there when the SHTF? Many FReepers are in denial, believing the 2016 GOP presidential candidate, or the Tea Party, is going to come to the rescue, defying economic realities (the country is broke), demographic realities (the majority are now looters and moochers), and somehow bring back the good old days of Coolidge and Reagan.

75 posted on 04/30/2013 7:32:15 AM PDT by peyton randolph (FUBO and his wookie beard)
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To: Kartographer

It will be worse because, unlike during the depression, most people cannot live off the land. Although there were many that lived in the cities in the 1930s, we still had a substantial number of Americans that had farming and other survival skills.


76 posted on 04/30/2013 7:39:53 AM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est.)
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To: grumpygresh

“It will be worse because, unlike during the depression, most people cannot live off the land. Although there were many that lived in the cities in the 1930s, we still had a substantial number of Americans that had farming and other survival skills.”

It will therefore also be shorter and bloodier than the Great Depression.


77 posted on 04/30/2013 7:46:43 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: Venturer

We are in sinc with Peter Schiff. We are putting our money in a rural retreat, food, gold, junk silver and guns and ammo. When this house of cards comes down its going to be a nightmare if you are not prepared to be self sufficient.


78 posted on 04/30/2013 7:56:26 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: grumpygresh

That has been my thought as well. Most urban people have no clue about gardening, much less farming.

OTH, if the government collapses with the economy, the urban populations might suffer a great loss of life in the ensuing violence that is sure to occur when the ebt cards stop working and there is no food on the shelves anyway.


79 posted on 04/30/2013 8:03:43 AM PDT by Valpal1
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To: Kartographer

Is there a link?


80 posted on 04/30/2013 8:12:42 AM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: yorkiemom
Thanks for the link!

Good point that at least we'd get some warning. We're also doing better in the stock market than in our FDIC insured money market. Not only on paper, but in actual dividend returns. I suppose if CD's start making better than 2% we'd pull out of the market pretty quickly. Just like the rest of the world.

81 posted on 04/30/2013 8:17:25 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: old and tired

That ‘s true about CD rates - if I could get just half of what our real inflation is, I ‘d take it. As it is, I am sadly happy to have found 1% CDs and savings account for the money that is not in the market.


82 posted on 04/30/2013 8:37:19 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: peyton randolph
believing the 2016 GOP presidential candidate, or the Tea Party, is going to come to the rescue

No rescue is coming. Only God's judgement is left.

83 posted on 04/30/2013 9:31:11 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Kartographer; JRandomFreeper; yorkiemom; greeneyes
Finally, an economist/investment man, has put a time line on the collapse. He says it will happen before Obama’s term is over. Next year, Obamacare starts. We may not make it through 2014.

My disposable money is going into more preps at all levels. I'm using money to be able to grow more food, buying more medical preps (includes more over the counter meds), more nonperishable food. I can't produce as much food as Johnny or greeneyes so more nonperishable food is a backup. I have enough for me, but I know in a very bad situation, the two liberals I consider family, will show up with nothing, plus my son will show up with nothing.

The sister-in-law’s and husband's minds are completely closed to anything adverse happening. They understand preps for a hurricane here as I've been through those before with preps and they know it. But they don't get having more than a week preps for me and they have none.

The sister-in-law of the group is an easily frightened person. Power went off one time when she was here and she freaked out. Now, she won't go to bed here unless one of my flashlights is beside her bed as she is sure power will go off again. If power went off everywhere, she would crawl here because she knows she will be safe in my house. Until that time happens, she thinks I am nuts.

A few of you have said you would like to live close to me. Compare your feeling about that to the liberal sister-in-law and husband who think I am nuts. Although they have been here many times, they never ask me to tell them all I have. I think they are afraid to find out because they might have to think something could actually happen. Talk about normalcy bias - they won't even consider something could happen.

At some point, they talked among themselves because the next time they came, they said they had decided the only threat was global warming - I didn't argue the point as one cannot change liberal minds and they are the best examples of liberalism on the face of the earth. They live in delusion - a fake world in their mind.

They live on the Texas coast with nothing stored. It takes five hours to get to my house. He thinks he has that covered as he, as a volunteer, goes to a hospital there to run their emergency communications in case of a hurricane. He think he can take the wife there and they will live in the hospital. What if the hospital uses someone else for communication? What if they won't let the wife be there?

They are depending on other people to save them and that's a very bad idea. I expect them to come here if the hospital plan doesn't work out.

Strange, isn't it? They think I'm nuts, but would drive here as fast as possible if there was an emergency.

Do any of you have family you would save even though they think nothing will ever happen and they think you are crazy to have preps?

84 posted on 04/30/2013 10:31:07 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Marcella
All of my family grew up around Granny, and keeping a well stocked pantry, plenty of tools, and the skillsets to use them all is second nature. All of us own firearms, all of us have useful real-world skills, ranging from spinning and weaving to building water and sewer treatment plants.

Heck, I make quilts myself.

/johnny

85 posted on 04/30/2013 10:37:01 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer; JRandomFreeper; greeneyes; yorkiemom
The sister-in-law saw a smallish box in the upstairs bathroom she uses. She brought the box to me and asked what it was. I told her it was a WaterBob so I could store 100 gallons of water when the next hurricane comes. She told the husband, she wanted one. He said just buy a waterbed and fill it up. Told him that is not food grade plastic and a very bad idea. Sister-in-law said she wanted a WaterBob. Told her I would order one and give it to the husband for Christmas. They weren't able to come Christmas so the WaterBob is here when they next come here.

I had four extra Katadyn siphon filters (filters thousands of gallons) and told her she could have one. She was glad to have it and he couldn't figure out why she would like to have one. He said they would be at the hospital if a hurricane happened. (I will use my Big Burkey so I didn't need the Katadyn I gave her.)

They only eat fresh food, nothing from a can so there is no canned food in their house.

Liberals are nuts - I am not nuts.

86 posted on 04/30/2013 10:54:24 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
My mother had quilting frames and ladies would come to the house and work on a quilt all day. Did you ever help granny with a quilt? You must have if you know how to quilt. My mom and I made a small quilt for my son before he was born.

I crocheted a blanket for my grandson before he was born. I crocheted a gray vest with leather inserts and leather buttons for my father in law because he had a heart attack and was always cold.

I still have my crochet needles and bunches of rolls of thread.

I have a crocheted bedspread my mom made. She worked on it when I was out on dates - took a lot of dates to crochet the whole bedspread.

87 posted on 04/30/2013 11:02:27 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Marcella
I never helped granny with a quilt, I was too small back then, but I learned how it worked at her knee. My older sister is the one that gave me my OJT on quiltmaking.

I had to learn to sew, and how to repair sewing machines. Just like when my brother bought his first car. I had to learn with him, how to do repairs, and eventually how to weld and do body work.

My parents thought it was best to keep my busy, for some reason, when I was growing up. ;)

/johnny

88 posted on 04/30/2013 11:11:07 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper
“My parents thought it was best to keep my busy, for some reason, when I was growing up. ;)”

In another post, you said you didn't play well with other kids in kindergarten. I might have drowned you as a pup in order to keep my sanity.

89 posted on 04/30/2013 11:17:45 AM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: silverleaf
"Meanwhile China is trying to own all the gold in the world and every world government is trying to “repatriate” its gold reserves

what do they know?"


90 posted on 04/30/2013 11:18:33 AM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: Venturer
I agree with Schiff that we are heading for disaster, I only wish I knew how to save my savings.

____________________________________________________________

Convert your savings to silver, other precious metals like brass & lead, real estate and consumables.

Where every you end up putting your money don't depend on someone else to protect what ever it is you have it in. Business will fail. Banks will fail. If you have real estate get it paid for. Do it NOW!

91 posted on 04/30/2013 11:35:09 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: broken_arrow1

It will either usher in a new birth of Freedom, or a great Tyranny. Either way, I hope it happens in my lifetime and not my children’s.

__________________________________________________________

Tyranny is on its way!


92 posted on 04/30/2013 11:37:46 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: Marcella; Kartographer; JRandomFreeper; greeneyes
Do any of you have family you would save even though they think nothing will ever happen and they think you are crazy to have preps?

I wouldn't if they were liberals. My family is annoying enough without having that distiction as well! But seriously, I wouldn't want to be locked in with a liberal for an unknown amount of time. My sanity and serenity would be seriously challenged - and that would limit my chances of survival.
93 posted on 04/30/2013 11:40:33 AM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: yorkiemom
“But seriously, I wouldn't want to be locked in with a liberal for an unknown amount of time. My sanity and serenity would be seriously challenged - and that would limit my chances of survival.”

I feel the same but I have to save them due to payback for when they helped me during the months my husband was dying. He was her brother and they were here a number of times through that and helped me immensely. I did have to suffer through a number of their tirades about conservatives, but I would have been much worse off if they hadn't come and helped me.

I so wish they were not severe liberal fruitcakes. One of the times they came, when they left, they were going to Houston and show support for the camp-in “Occupier” group that was camped in a park in downtown Houston. They even had T shirts on showing their support for “Occupiers”.

94 posted on 04/30/2013 12:15:07 PM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Marcella
I might have drowned you as a pup in order to keep my sanity.

That was discussed, several times.

/johnny

95 posted on 04/30/2013 12:44:06 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Marcella

Wow - they are extremely left-wing. How frustrating for you! And very kind of you to let them know you are prepping so they know where to go when the time comes.

My son and daughter-in-law are the only ones I’d take in. The others - my mother and sister and their husbands - are thousands of miles away so I don’t think it would be an issue.


96 posted on 04/30/2013 12:59:15 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: CJ Wolf

Didn’t post it as I posted the article in entirety, but here it is:

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/the-crisis-is-imminent-when-the-real-crash-comes-it-will-be-worse-than-the-great-depression_04302013


97 posted on 04/30/2013 1:02:13 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: yorkiemom
“Wow - they are extremely left-wing. How frustrating for you! And very kind of you to let them know you are prepping so they know where to go when the time comes.”

They are as far left wing as one can go. Obama is not left enough for them. They hate big companies as companies don't give ALL their money to employees (and he works for a big company and hates them at the same time.) They want completely free medical care for everyone. There is no way to describe how left they are - complete radicals. Both are hippies who never gave it up.

98 posted on 04/30/2013 1:18:35 PM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Marcella

My immediate family are the only ones that live close enough to come here. The others are country people who live about 5 hours from here. They all know how to grow food and survive.

My kids are living the frugal life, and don’t have much to put back, so I try to make sure and stock everything to last for 4 months including all the ones likely to show up. I’ll just keep buying extra to increase that.

They also know how to hunt and fish. My sister’s kids grew up raising rabbits and hunting and fishing for food. They probably have not put back a lot, but they do tend to stock up on good deals, so their pantry would likely be full enough to tide them over until they could figure out what to do for survival.

My sister’s kids all live close to her except for one who lives with an ex-navy guy in California. She and hubby have the skills, and the mind set to survive. Course they all fight like cats and dogs, so their days might be pretty interesting.LOL

If family shows up here, I’ll help them, and I’ll help neighbors as I can. Especially when it comes to foraging, and recognizing edible weeds.


99 posted on 04/30/2013 2:42:09 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: yorkiemom

None of my family, except hubby, knows anything about my thinking on preps. They just know that I buy stuff on sale and store it so that I have a well stocked pantry.

Older daughter joked that I was well prepared for the apocalypse. I told her that I was sure we were all in for some hard times and rampant inflation somewhere down the line, but I wouldn’t call it an apocalypse.

My storage has all been purchased with my family in mind, and I figure they will all join me here, since I have the room. If we get too many to support on my 1 acre, then the younger ones will have to cultivate some additional land to grow their own food.

Everyone will have to tend enough of the garden to provide for their own food. Oldest daughter was in the Coast Guard Academy- she and my other daughter know their way around self defense, including guns.


100 posted on 04/30/2013 2:51:37 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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