Posted on 01/12/2013 7:10:39 AM PST by yoe
[snip] (Standard Gravure shooting) First known shooting with ties to Prozac. Joseph Wesbecker kills 12, injures 9.
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
(Excerpt) Read more at libertyandsuch.com ...
“Well, DUH!” ping.
No one has figured this out before now?
Makes me glad I’m off my meds...
Oh, “linked,” is it? How I love “journalism.” How many of the kabillions of kids on pills ever commit mass murder? A vanishingly infinitesimal subset, no doubt.
Did it occur to anyone that they got Medicares and killed people because of the same underlying problem? That being screwlooseism, for lack of a better term.
This reminds me of how people like to pretend antidepressants cause suicide. I’ll tell you how that works. There is such a thing as being too depressed to kill yourself. If the pills work you are happier, have more energy, and finally can follow through on things, for instance killing yourself.
Mass murder takes a lot of planning and some nerve. Who wants to bother when they’re feeling blue? Antidepressants give you that getupandgo you need to accomplish your goals, for instance killing others.
Additionally 60 Minutes had a segment that exposed the fact that there “is no therapeutic effect” from these. So, in view of this and the fact that the use of these powerful mind altering drugs are implicated in virtually every one of these horrific events why is the focus not on banning these drugs?
The world wonders.
Guess all that did was stir their juices up for another go.
The link is this ~ one of these young folks is beginning to manifest the disturbance we call schizophrenia ~ which will frequently lead to a violent lifestyle in many ~ and the doc prescribes pills.
The doctor might not even recognize the leading signs of schizophrenia, and the doctor would have done well to withhold the pills and send the kid to a shrink, or, in a previous time, send the kid over to the jailhouse for a look-see pending formal medical evaluation.
So, the kid gets the pills, the schizophrenia progresses, and he ends up blowing up or shooting up somebody or something, or a whole lot of somebodies and somethings!
Schizophrenia is the problem. Failure of the medical establishment to demand legal process so ordinary doctors can SEND these guys to incarceration for observation is another problem. The pills are a problem only to the extent they delay treatment.
Mitch Daniels is not your problem anyway.
Medicares = medicated
I’m off mine, too.
But now the voices are telling me you should be back on yours.
I believe they are also responsible for the enormous uptick in military suicides. They are responsible for countless acts of unbridled rage. They do NOT stop depression. They supress the natural inhibitions that prevent people from acting in ways they would never do normally.
Opensecrets.org
Of the $5,784,751,915 in itemized contributions that was given to political campaigns during the 2007 and 2008 election cycles, $49,195,875 (0.9%) came from the 123 (of the top ) state and federal contributors that matched your search of (Pharmaceuticals & Health)
One day in 1996, I found myself in the hospital waiting room. My 2 month old was having heart surgery on the 5th floor and my Dad was having quadruple bypass on the 8th. The next week I found myself in the middle of the grocery aisle, crying over which paper towel to buy. My doctor prescribed Zoloft and within days I was able to cope again. I truly believe that the degradation of our society has more to do with the lack of civility, distain for a “honest living” attitude and failure to accept personal responsibly than pills. Like my favorite Sister used to say. “todays youth cannot cope because they have never learned how to struggle”
“is no therapeutic effect”
That’s just not true. They’ve done scientifically randomized controlled drug trials, and had antidepressants failed we’d know it, and not just from some 60 Minutes episode.
Then again, who the heck knows what “depression” is, anyway, or if it even exists? It isn’t exactly diagnosed with scientific precision, so it’s inherently arbitrary to say whether it’s gotten better. However, antidepressants aren’t only used for depression, and have therapeutic value for a number of disorders and diseases.
It doesn’t need to rise to the level of schizophrenia, though. They could be free of brand name disorders yet somehow maladjusted. Teachers, parents, or whoever notice something or other, and eventually the inevitable catchall diagnoses and medication.
Then they snap. But the way they throw pills around these days they could merely be bad seeds. Or they could be worse off than recognized, as you suggest.
I recently lost my private insurance and I’m about four months shy of Medicare, so I visited the local VA Clinic for some pain meds. (I have five (count ‘em) herniated discs.)
I took all the preliminary blood and urine tests (perfect) and got an appointment to see the doctor.
Twice during the prescreening, once during the doctor’s exam and again after getting my scripts I was rigorously grilled as to my possible anxieties, depression, PTSD and anything else they could think of that might qualify for some psych drugs.
It was as if they were having a fire sale on the stuff.
They seemed positively disappointed when I assured them that VietNam was over 40 years in my past and definitely not a problem for me.
But the push to take psych meds was obvious.
Any drug that includes the caveat “We have no idea how/why this works....” should be automatically discounted as toxic.
99% of them are in the flourine family which is most commonly used as rat poison.
That should’ve been a huge clue right there.
You go ahead and put your stock in 60 minutes. I'll trust in the first hand results.
Antidepressants work by causing ‘flattening of effect’, otherwise known as “numbness”.
When you can’t “feel” sad, you might mistake it for “happy”..or you might just feel numb enough to kill yourself or others.
“Numbness” is one of the top ‘side effects’ of these drugs.
If you’ve never taken them, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
DOUBLE DUH!!!
I don’t listen to the voices in my head, Why should I listen to the voices in yours?
Because the drugs “put you out of everybody else’s misery”, that’s why.
It’s better for some to have their loved ones doped up and quiet than expressing their issues in an annoyingly vocal but healthy way.
Is your 8 year old son acting like a normal, active boy?
Give him Ritalin.
That’ll shut him up and calm him down so he’s more ‘manageable’.
Back in the 90s schools started pressuring parents to put their kids (mostly boys) on Ritalin. I guess they got used to the idea to use drugs to control kid’s behavior. Maybe these drugs shouldn’t be given to kids after all.
I doubt that it’s the antidepressants themselves, but a combination of the Rxs with whatever condition is being treated... a fact which lends itself to greater examination of mental health in general.
If it were just the antidepressants, we’d be seeing an exponentially larger number of killings then we are now, because those types of drugs are in extremely widespread use.
Most people do not pay attention to the extremely rapid ‘listing of side effects’ by the announcer.
The same with the asthma and diabetes drugs.
“May cause worsening of symptoms or sudden death” is my favorite.
Really?!?
Gimme some of that!
Remember when “YAZ” was the monthly wonder drug for women?
Huge class action suit going on for those young women who stroked out or dropped dead of heart attacks.
“Wild Bill” [rest his soul] took *all* the psych meds the VA generously handed out, even though he didn’t need them.
Every month, The Goody Box showed up at his house.
[which was a very popular ‘hangout’ on that day]
He was a VN vet but perfectly fine.
He just wanted the free ‘gubmint buzz’.
One day, for no apparent reason, he jumped onto his Harley and drove it full tilt into a stone wall, in front of his horrified friends.
Well, I’m now starting to wonder whether we’re seeing a cause-and-effect relationship here.
Has anyone stopped to wonder whether there are some of us that will do this evil things regardless?
And, often it’s not the meds that cause the problem; it’s when someone quits taking meds that results. I’ve seen this in bi-polar people personally. They function just fine in interpersonal situtations, but take them off their meds and they become crackpots.
That could be the case - the perps all had serious underlying psychological issues, so statistically they would be more prone to be on some kind of brain hash pill.
Eh?
Never effected me that way. In fact the numbness was during the depression. My husband can tell when it is hitting he says by my giggles. When I am going down first I don't giggle then I don't laugh at all. Nothing is worth more then a brief smile and I am so very tired. Like I am wrapped in a fog of numbness.
When the medication kicks in I begin to act normally again and he knows it has passed by the fact I will giggle at something.
The link between mind altering anti-depressants and homicide has been understood by some people for a very long time:
I can’t believe there are a$$hole$ in the medical profession who prescribe these things to people who have severe mental problems and are a danger to themselves and others.
These things do not CURE the problem. They MASK the problem, so the patient goes around with a silly-a$$ grin and replys “yes” to the question “are you feeling happy?” The shrink writes down “yes” in his book and is safe from a lawsuit.
The underlying problem is still there. The pills contain chemicals that give a happy feeling and so all the a$$hole$ think everything is OK.
” They’ve done scientifically randomized controlled drug trials”
The trials were done by the companies pushing the drugs.
Depression is anger turned inward.
Our society no longer works in the fields all day to survive so we have lots of time to sit around and ruminate over perceived ills and grievances.
To quote Pete Steele of Type O Negative;
Idle hands may be the devil’s work
Unbridled minds you see are so much worse
Too much pity spent and wasting time
Irresponsibility not my only crime no
Obsessive thinking, depressed drinking
The person I once was, he’s dead
Exhume the past this time or be my last
This is my final quest to remove my mask yeah
Pete was given Prozac which he took for *years*.
Almost all of his songs are desperate internal dialogues about being freed from his numbness and despair.
In addition to the Prozac, he self-medicated with booze and coke to ‘feel’ again.
His ‘sudden rages’ were infamous and he did time on Rikers Island for beating the crap out of people.
he got odd the drugs, legal and illegal, stopped drinking and re-found God...just in time.
Now he’s dead, his heart having given out from the chemical excesses.
IMO, he would still be alive if not for the Prozac.
You can virtually track his physical/mental descent through his albums.
Ironically, in spite of his fame and success, he pined for the days when he was a maintenance man in Central Park.
The hard work made him -happy-.
“If you’ve never taken it, you have no idea what you’re talking about.”
I don’t wish to deny people know how drugs make them feel, but what utter BS. I don’t have to have cancer to speak about it intelligently. The whole reason psychiatry exists is to gave someone outside your brain tell you about how you feel.
“Flattening of effect” is not a very precise way to describe it, anyway, Mr. Oh-so Drugknowledgable. Anyway, mine and your explanatoons aren’t mutually exclusive. Could be one of those blind Indian and the elephant stories. It’s not as if I was saying they nake you manic, or anything. You lose the highs and the lows, whuch if you were just in a low low would make you more active and motivated. One of thr things you can become numb to is your own sadnesd, whuch makes you happier. A lot of peolle are happiet without mood swings.
I was being a bit silly in my post, though, which I guess is what the sarcasm tag was invented for. But I thought compound words like “getupandgo” might tell the tale themselves.
Something is causing you to ‘go down’.
You need to find out what that ‘something’ is.
Putting a chemical band aid over a sucking chest wound is not the way to go.
I’m very sorry to hear that you’re suffering.
:(
All the killers on that list, except for one, are male. Why don’t anti depressants make females homicidal maniacs?
See ENOUGH! (Guns, Active Shooters And Pharma) for a discussion of the problems of giving anti-depressants to young folks. Rage is a known side effect of giving Paxil to bipolar kids. It's a no-no to do so, but too often bipolar is misdiagnosed as depression.
“The trials were done by the companies pushing the drugs”
Oh, I see. It’s one of those arguments. Like how we can never prove Oswald was the shooter or OJ killed Ron and Nichols because maybe the cops planted evidence.
Do you honestly figure only drug companies run trials? All the hundreds of them? Not even the government weighed in? The same government whose official policy is to err on the side of death just to be sure one out of a billion dose doesn’t turn you green? You don’t imagine the NIH ran trials?
every single gun shooter was found to be taking these suicide pills.
There is a timeline on Wikipedia of school shootings in America from the 1700’s, one case every few years either a disgruntled student or teacher who was fired would kill someone... then the mass shootings took off in 1989 - the year Prozac was introduced - coincidence ??
“Depression is anger turned inward”
Okay.
“Our society no longer works in the fields”
I’ve heard this before. Have you ever studied the religion, read the literature, or heard the music of agrarian societies? Not all of it, but much? They sound depressed as a weeping willow. Ever boiled Christianity down to its essentials? Basically, it’s that life sucks, then you die. One tho.g different now is that we’re more bored, and boredom is a vastly underestimated emotion. But there are equally burdensome things.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania.
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California.
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI anti-depressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002 (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, AZ
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora, Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas, OR
What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown, CT
More here: SSRI Stories
Psychiatry is built as a castle upon the sand on rooting out that “something.” If you find it, and who could ever know it even exists let alone when it is found, a common answer is “So what?” Now you know; whattya do with that information? Nothing, really. They have to ship you off somewhere else to work on behavior.
Have you ever taken them?
MISS Oh-so-Drugknowledgable has.
In 1981, side effects of a healing brain trauma had a quack stick me on them for a total of 11 years, constantly increasing doses/changing meds because darn it, they just ‘weren’t working’.
[TBI has its own timeline for regeneration of neurological deficits but nobody considered *that* and thought I was “just being difficult”]
Between my impatient mother and jackass husband of the time, it was ‘decided’ that I needed to be ‘medicated’.
There are three years of my life that I do not even *remember*.
As a happy little bonus, I began to have absence seizures [one of the known side effects; seizures] and dealt with drug induced OCD for *years*.
It takes a very long time for that crap to totally leave your system and brain chemistry to rebalance itself.
The final straw was Prozac.
I took that poison for 9 days when I “heard a voice” that was not my own telling me to kill myself.
I turned on my heel, marched back to the bathroom and flushed the rest of the bottle down the toilet.
Thank God in heaven that I had a strong will and determined presence of mind to *know* that it was the pills “talking”.
All of that ended 20+ years ago and so far, I’ve managed to cope with life’s stresses all on my own.
Ups and down, highs and lows are part of a normal life and psyche.
Without one, we can never appreciate the other.
“Flat lining” is not a life worth living.
So.
Now give me *your* informed story.
I think you’ve hit on a big part of the problem. The availability of these “magic pills” discourages doctors, therapists, and psychologists from taking the necessary steps to make a proper diagnosis. Instead, they can prescribe some magic pills, in a low dosage to start of course, and “see if that helps”. Most people will report some positive effects after a few weeks, because the magic pills are psychological uppers. However, if they report positive effects, lazy doctors can assume that depression was the correct diagnosis, and pat themselves on the back.
Also, the pills do have rare side effects that can provoke psychotic behavior, and I really don’t think that they take any precautions against that. Even if the side effects are very rare, when you prescribe these pills widely to the general public for minor maladies, those very rare events are going to happen more often.
Agree... to a point. It takes a certain evil to commit these acts and the medicine does not cause the evil. The medicine does, however, put you in a surreal, dreamlike state that limits inhibitions as well as cognitive reasoning. I don’t blame the medicine itself, but children should not be taking mind altering drugs, especially on a permanent basis, before their brains have even fully developed.
Most people including myself will tell you that they feel their normal self again. They work well for panic attacks too.
This is not a placebo effect because they actually make symptoms worse the first week or two in many people. This thread is full of misinformation. A lpt of the falsehoods have been brought about by tort lawyers and the Scientologists.
Can you list all the kids who took antidepressants and didn’t commit crimes?
So, in your opinion, a shrink should be able to have someone locked up for not committing a crime? What could possibly go wrong? The framers gave us right to due process specifically to prevent these ideas from coming to fruition.
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