Skip to comments.Vanity: It's Not the Message, It's the Messenger
Posted on 11/09/2012 3:21:21 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
"No offense meant to the honored former governor of Massachusetts. I mean, he may have been a horrible candidate, but he was a decent man. Of course, after Dukakis, Democrats determined that decency didn't win presidential elections. Massachusetts ceded to Arkansas and the rest, as they say, is history." Source
Mitt Romney and his family are decent people - hard working Americans who love this country.
They sought and won the primary baton - tirelessly campaigned to the bitter end of the campaign.
I'll boil my post-election analysis down to this:
We need to elect a candidate that, besides running a good campaign, can articulate to the electorate all the good reasons why voting for him, will be a vote to improve their condition (and by condition, I'm not taking about unsustainable material hand-outs and a nanny-state).
The missing votes? Caulk them up in large part to missing enthusiasm for the candidate.
This was a "turn-out" election and there were not enough "jazzed-up" voters. Voting against the policies of one candidate will not rally enough to win. Too many will never be educated about what was, what is and what is in store for them.
"If something can't go on for ever, it won't." Herbert Stein
We are on the trajectory for economic collapse. Dictatorial rule will follow unless there is (and we can identify) a candidate, who will not only lead the GOP faithful but can touch and ignite the now flickering light of freedom and liberty fading from humanity and civilized societies - rally Americans (and the world) from their decline.
And let's try not to undercut each other at every opportunity.
Dole - rino - lost
McCain - rino - lost
Romney - rino - lost
So what does this tell you? I mean for goodness sakes if the stupid party can't figure it out by now they never will!
Well, I think many people predicted during the primaries that merely running a stopgap candidate on the crux of “Hey I’m not Barack Obama” wasn’t going to be an electorally viable strategy.
Someone who can communicate a real vision would’ve helped tremendously I think, which is why I went for Newtthough I dunno, the media may’ve made mince meat of him regardless of his strength at fighting them.
There aren’t any real political leaders left on the GOP side at this point IMO. The history and the experience it takes to forge such individuals just isn’t there.
I’ll go even further
Dole - rino - pretended to be conservative - lost
Bush - rino - genuine about what he thought and believed - won
McCain - rino - pretended to be conservative - lost
Romney - rino - pretended to be conservative - lost
I didn't throw him in because he actually was reeclected Ah, but you see even though Bush was genuine, he didn't really "win" he was more selected. But I get your point!
I’ll agree with your implication. Let’s face it the GOP fought us (the Conservative base) to run their RINO.
He/She that says it ain’t the GOP, and I’ll add the ‘e’ are not awake yet. I repeat THE GOP-e FOUGHT their base to run Romney, and then flipped the wee birdie to their base throughout the campaign, as well used the name of their base in vain as they did so.
In their lust to hold on to their prestigeous trappings they seemingly are sacrificing their purpose.
I was just trying to make the point that He didn’t pretend to be something He is not. And people respected him for it. The libs hated that guy with a passion. Yet he was still elected. B/c he was honest. He was wrong fiscally, but he was honest and people respected that. The other 3 people tried to be something they were not and it showed.
Yep. Many "republicans" say they see the demographics changing and we have to change with it. BS! Conservatism wins because of the values and principles it forwards. I actually bought into the ABO meme, because I really thought my dog catcher could beat Obama! Well, I was wrong.
After looking at the CLEAR, undeniable evidence of rino's losing national elections, I should have fought harder for a conservative. On Wednesday I changed my party affiliation, I'm just a conservative now without a home. I am more content to LOSE with a conservative, than try to win with a rino.
The GOP/RNC and the republican party can all GFT!
caulk = chalk [but then you knew that....]
Yes, we need that articulate candidate who can explain conservatism to the masses. But I’m afraid that is a very rare gift. In the past thirty or forty years I think we have had exacty two who could really do that: Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich. And Newt’s effectiveness was diminished by other characteristics. So, we’ve actually had one who was the total package.
Maybe there is one out there, but I don’t know who at present.
And the Bushes rode Reagan’s coattails to a national prominence they could never have achieved on their own, and they mostly frittered away a great deal of what he had built up as a conservative and as a Republican.
Right. I totally agree. The GOPe don't care about the conservative faction of the party. I would have never said this before, but it's time to stop fighting the GOPe, tell them to GFT, and form a conservative party.
Those people who handily warned us years ago about the republican party were right. The republican party are losers right now!
We need someone with coattails -[enough with the labeling].
We need the Senate, the House, the White House. WE need to keep turning states Red -- so Red, that we have candidates to spare to represent us on Capital Hill.
We need another "actor" like Reagan who understands people and can take the message of freedom vs oppressive government to every nook and cranny.
We need a team, united under a banner of Freedom and Liberty.
I am of the opinion that we need to refine our notion of conservatism. I am a social conservative, but it appears that so-called “women’s rights” issues have been defined and accepted by so many Americans that they cannot remain in the foreground of what a conservative “looks like.” Smaller government, strong defense, personal responsibility and faith should be the hallmarks.
That is exactly why I was for Cain, and then Newt.
Both have shown an ability to communicate their message despite the MSM, and to effectively challenge the MSM.
We cannot have future national candidates that cannot do this. Reagan did it *very* effectively.
“We need someone with coattails -[enough with the labeling].”
Then we need someone tall enough to wear the length we need.
What’s with the “enough of the labeling”? You don’t want to call it like it is. You want to pussyfoot around the deceit, and call it something else? What would you call it? What would you call them? The GOP fought the long established base of the party to get what the leaders of the party want versus the people that support the party, and not the first time. That is an obvious clue as to where the leadership of the GOP has taken the party. Well to the Left of the base, thus as Conservatives have always been the base of the Republican Party they, the leadership are therefore RINO’s. Do you wish to dispute that?
“We need a team, united under a banner of Freedom and Liberty.”
Agree, but with the perspective of the leadership of the GOP today it hasn’t, and isn’t going to happen. We must get the party back to Conservative perspective so we can rebuild the machine to a fighting, winning machine instead of a go nowhere treadmill.
All this mind numbing analysis and GOP navel gazing is getting old fast. No. It got old fast. I am still waiting for the pundit or Freeper to say “See, I told you we should have nominated X.”, and then explain how candidate X would have done better than Romney. Identifying problems without offering solutions is so simple anyone can do it. Blaming the candidate without offering an alternative is equally simple, and equally pointless. And the GOP did not give us candidate Romney; the voters did.
My favorite is Demint but I don’t think he has the charisma factor and I think he’s a little shy.
Rand Paul, I think he is pretty good but I am still not certain that he doesn’t carbon his father. If he doesn’t carbon, I think he is a good bet.
Everybody screams Rubio but something about that man sets my brake on trust. He’s pretty and everything you think you want but I just don’t trust him.
Jindal is pretty awesome but he needs polish.
That’s my list.
“And the GOP did not give us candidate Romney; the voters did”
You are saying the GOP did not apply their influence to defeat the other candidates, and to boost Romney over the other candidates? You’re quite wrong. Romney was the only one supported by the GOP leadership, thus the funding of the RNC from the beginning.
The topic is the GOP, and their trend as losers in the most important days of our land.
Jim Robinson was right, I was right, and so many others were right about Romney.
Due to weather conditions I have one “H” of a time staying online, and I’m getting tired of redialing here only to get 12.0 kb’s, and lose my connection again, and again, so I’m outta here until the old telephone lines in this rural area neglected by AT&T for so long dry out from the recent minor rains.
Yep, and you had Mitt basically "agreeing" with this redefinement! This is what liberals do, try to redefine culture and as conservatives we have to stop the fanciful dogma. You can NOT do this with the current GOPe. You have to have a strong conservative who understands this about liberals and is willing to fight them tooth and nail for the right values..
Ha! What an numbnutz to believes this crap! The GOPe put ALL their resources behind Romney, touted him, and gave the media a candidate they knew would be soft on Obama, not exposing his faults...
Thanks for starting this thread. I agree with everything you’ve written. I have some ideas and thoughts to share and I hope they will stir some response.
I don’t think there is a perfect candidate. President Reagan became who he was by living a long time, going through a remarkable variety of experiences and having the capacity to think and communicate what he had learned.
The candidate must be someone who wants to do what must be done, who understands what makes the U.S. unique, who loves the Lord, who is courageous, who has a past that can be above or beyond scrutiny by evil forces. I don’t know if anyone can do this unless we, the supporters, can do all we can to support him or her.
For example: every single lie told about the candidate, his positions, his statements MUST be set straight — immediately. The “accusers” must be called out, they must be made to look exactly like what they are: liars who have only their own self-interest at heart.
A second thought: the only way to change the Republican party, to create a truly conservative group is to start at the grass roots. Join local republican groups, be persistent, fight to take them over. Never sit still for any kind of lie. Each person must exemplify what we want in that ideal candidate. He or she must be strong, courageous, educated and articulate.
I have so many ideas concerning these problems, but I no longer have the energy or physical health to take those ideas and make them into practical solutions.
That’s all for now.
I think you’re missing the point:
Romney was actually more conservative than most people thought.
The problems were two:
1) He’s a Mormon.
2) Most people thought he was not conservative.
Had Romney held his views as a Catholic, he would be president right now.
The problem is, he is not. Never was, and was perceived as not conservative by enough on our side to lose.
So... enough on our side did not vote.
Thus Romney lost.
All that said, we need to regroup quickly and field a real candidate for competing with Obama.
Palin. Or someone else. But soon.
One more time, with feeling. What Republican would have got more votes than Romney?... You can’t answer that so you resort to name calling. You must have picked that tactic up from Obama.....Waiting.....Waiting.....I’m still waiting for a name. I know it’s easier to point fingers than come up with answers, but I’m confident you will eventually.
Hell I was right about Romney too, but he won so I supported him anyway. If more Republicans had done that we would not have four more years of America circling the drain with Captain TY-D-BOL in charge. Blame the candidate? Blame the GOP? No I blame the voters, and I am still waiting for anyone to name someone who would have done better and explain how.
I saw a report that he got 1% more support from evangelicals than he did from Mormons.
However, you have succinctly stated the philosophy of the average ABO. Just saying.
My prediction is the GOPe will continue down this same ideological path with 5 FAILED elections to carry behind them and will still not learn a Fn thing!.
Gingrich, Cain, Huntsman, Palin
I am a big Gingrich fan but that list of names is downright laughable. I would have loved to hear Newt telling the raw truth about Obama, but in the end he would have done worse than Romney. I know that’s just my opinion, but it was shared by most of the primary voters.
Instead of sitting out elections I would prefer a third party- a Conservative Party. At least that way we would have actual numbers to show the GOP.
LOL, seriously?? Do you live in a dream world where everything is ideal and fair?
Do you not know of the power of the party elites to "rig" the system?
Yea, the voter's kept giving Stalin power too!
Any Freeper who does know that the GOP-e despises Conservatives should be ashamed.
If the GOP was serious, they would make Texas the make-or-break state, instead of Iowa and New Hampshire, let’s actually have states that actually vote for Republicans decide the nominee, what a concept!
“Hell I was right about Romney too, but he won so I supported him anyway.”
So did I, as well as did so many of the others. In the end, and thanks to the influence of the RINO GOP he was all we had between sanity, and the insanity that has infected the Democrat Party, but for all the reasons prophesied he wasn’t the one to carry the day for us. IOW we knew up front, knew he wasn’t about to make the grade for many of the electorate, but the GOPe ran him anyway.
I recall the slogan that “Romney bought, and paid for the nomination”, with promises, and contributions to campaigns for others. He wanted to be the President that his dad could not be. It was a personal thing with Romney.
You go right ahead and blame the voters all you want. They don’t care that you do. They are blaming you, and your GOPe for not giving them someone to vote for.
As far as who could have won? You first.
My Gop-E?..I am not even a registered Republican because they are not conservative enough for me. I vote in the primaries because it is allowed here. I wasn’t offered a better choice than Romney so I voted for him, but I can’t think of anyone who I believe would have done better. But I don’t need to because I am not blaming Romney for his loss. I am blaming the voters who are building a new Collective States of Amerika where the USA once stood. I am also saying this sad scenario will be repeated four years from now because all the same pissers and moaners are doing the same pissing and moaning they did four years ago. It didn’t help then and it won’t help now. You want a better, more conservative, more effective GOP? Quit all the introspection and reach out to educate the uninformed. Quit complaining to the choir and go create some new converts. These circular firing squads are really getting old. There are a lot of Freepers who worked harder to defeat Romney than they did to defeat Obama. Now they want to pound their chests and say “See I was right.” while America circles the drain under four more years of Captain TY-D-BOL.
Do you not know of the power of the party elites to “rig” the system?
That is more tin foil hat conspiracy theory than it
Any Freeper who does know that the GOP-e despises Conservatives should be ashamed.
I am confident you said the same things four years ago.
I am just as confident you will be saying the same
things four years from now. Either help create a new
Conservative Party or get busy changing the GOP. Griping
the same old gripes hasn’t helped in the past and won’t
help in the future. I am only one person but I am working
to change minds and educate voters one by one. If I am
only able to convert 10 people in the next four years
that is 100 times better than discouraging 10 Republican
voters from going to the polls with my carping, sniping,
pessimistic, it’s all a conspiracy, attitude. Imagine if
a million people each changed 10 minds for the good
instead of demoralizing 10. Now ask yourself how many
people you motivate in a positive way.
What has happened..is that the vote corruption gradually implemented by the Communists over decades in cities to create the “modern inner-city” has been allowed to morph into the Federal elections process.
The vigorous one-on-one combat “figuratively” speaking ...to clean it up that mess is beyond the physical capacity, and perhaps cognitive comprehension, of the average suburbanite Republican voter, and may be beyond the spiritual capacity of the the more evangelically inclined.
what they fail to appreciates..is that it is a far preferable mess to deal with now than the inevitable violence coming that neglect and failure to deal with leads to.
“....But I cant think of anyone who I believe would have done better. But I dont need to because I am not blaming Romney for his loss....”
So you are saying the promise of money, candy, and cupcakes made by Romney to the GOPe for their influence, and the obliging GOPe providing that influence for Romney, and no other candidate, actually fighting the other candidates by placing obstacles in their paths, and allowing no support at all for any of them in the primary had nothing to do with Romney’s ascension to be the nominee, and you simply went along with the game, and now that your guy lost it’s the voters fault, because they are a headstrong lot Hell bent on turning this country into a Collective States of Amerika. That’s how your post read to me.
The GOPe, and their guy Romney didn’t persuade those voters of Amerika. The other side did. The voters didn’t do it themselves. Who failed!? The GOPe, and Romney failed. End of discussion IMO. They failed, and deserve the credit for it.
We the Conservatives did what we could by talking to, keeping informed as many as we could as individuals that Romney wasn’t the best, but better than Obama. We did our best, but Romney, and the GOPe failed to back us up.
We mostly agree.
The point I wanted to make is that “RINO” has become the default insult and in-your-face tool — it is intellectually lazy.
Let’s improve our language skills, debate and sharpen our arguments.
There is so much coarseness bleeding into our society. There were times that FU (fill in the blank) could be found daily, multiple times on FR.
Joining the rabble does not invite people to take a look and listen to what we have to say or to believe we are well intended people.
It was very welcome.
That is more tin foil hat conspiracy theory than it is truth.
you are so naive. It is obvious that it is rigged against Conservatives. Do you know realize that that all the early primaries are in Blue areas? The GOP would never approve of having primaries start in the South, or other Red areas.
It's not rigged?? that's laughable.
You are a great tool for the GOP-e. Thanks for the laugh though.
Way to go guys. Just keep up the good work. It has worked so well for you the last two times. Can’t wait for your positive comments and encouraging words in 2016. Keep on demoralizing yourself and everyone within earshot with half baked theories and excuses, and the next guy will probably get 3 million votes fewer than Romney got.
...And that's your problem you've been convince they can't win. Well, you're wrong! They can win if we just back them STRONGLY! We believe in their ideas, but we chose to listen to others just like you who think those names are laughable!
Your thinking is the problem!
Win? Hell they couldn’t even beat Romney.
You don't get it...no wonder republicans lost!
You sound just like an arrogant, over educated GOP-e puke. Either that, or you are a DU troll who is happy the Marxist won. In either case, you are a naive fool.
It has worked so well for you the last two times. Cant wait for your positive comments and encouraging words in 2016.
It worked for you?? You definitely sound like a troll... have a nice day!
“We mostly agree.”
“The point I wanted to make is that RINO has become the default insult and in-your-face tool it is intellectually lazy.
Lets improve our language skills, debate and sharpen our arguments.”
Look lady if we are to fight that means fight, not kissFace, and huggy with the enemy. RINO is not only an insult as you say, but is also a description of a class of people we don’t want leading our political party, therefore we must, and we will use every weapon, insult, dig, whatever as weapons to win. The enemy, the Democrats don’t hesitate to toss insults, and worse at us. Fight back. We aren’t going to get anywhere being Mr. Nice Guys/gals.
It’s time, past time as you, and others will soon find out to start kickin’ Leftist behinds. This is our country as well as theirs, and for them to make up rules, and regulations primarily for them to feed off of us (so they say) isn’t playing nice at all.
You make it sound like we need new hankies with more starch in them to smack them on their cheeks. That isn’t fighting for what we believe in.
The rule book is the Constitution, not a book listing Obama Executive Orders.
You guys amaze me. The Republican Party is not full of Conservatives...What?...No!....Really? Republicans are Republicans and Conservatives are Conservatives. Sometimes they overlap but not always-not even usually. This has been going on for years and you are still suprised and disappointed? Every election you moan about the candidates being not conservative enough but expect them to be more conservative next time. People this is not the Conservative Party. It is the Republican Party. The so called GOP elite are not rigging anything. They don’t have to because the majority of registered Republicans think just like them. It is pointless to hope and wish for conservative candidates from people who are only moderately conservative. The Tea Party movement is a valiant effort to move the party to the right, but even they are having only limited success. You have to pick from three choices: 1. Start today working to move your local GOP to the right. Work to educate voters and party hacks about conservatism. 2. Work to create a Conservative Party. Yes a third party. If every pissed off Republican would join forces and field candidates in local and state elections,and work hard to get them elected they would be a force to be reckoned with in 2016. 3. Shut up, sit down, and hope for the best.
Do not, however, expect the Republican Party to become conservative in four years. It didn’t happen in 88, 92,96, 2000, 2004, 2008, or 2012, and it won’t happen in 2016 either. Somehow though I have a suspicion you will still be moaning about the same old things in 2016. If you haven’t figured it out by now you probably never will. Either way, I tried. Good luck to you.
Right, but the problem is the repub party is run by the LOSER GOPe, not the conservative faction, which wins! I say it's fine if the republican party is all inclusive, but let the conservatives be in power. It will never happen because conservatives don't consider politics or gov't god.
I have up til this last election said we must fight to wrest power in the party instead of leave. Well, I'm done now! The republican party and all the loser rino coddlers can go FT! rino/moderates are losers whether they get elected or not, and they've shown absolutely NO PROOF nationally they can get elected!
and they’ve shown absolutely NO PROOF nationally they can get elected!
Exactly. If we had a COnservative Party candidate to vote for at least we would be counted. As it is millions stay home and the “experts” scratch their heads and wonder why. We don’t have a voice in the GOP so it is time to form our own party. Voting for the CP candidate and losing would be better than voting for a moderate we don’t really believe in and losing anyway.
Maybe because I was so PO at the stupid party I didn't realize we were agreeing with each other. I suspect this happens more than any of us would care to admit.
It's going to be a hard road, but the republican party needs to examine themselves before they EVER will win again...too late, they've lost me and I was one one their most ardent supporters. It's definitely is a THREE STRIKES AND YOU'RE OUT, thing.
We pinned our hopes on the GOP, but they never pinned their hopes on us.
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