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For Any Residual Paulbots Who Think It Would Be Cute to Vote Libertarian Today...
Reaganite Republican ^ | 06 November 2012 | Reaganite Republican

Posted on 11/06/2012 7:23:25 AM PST by Reaganite Republican

The only effect you're going to have -if any- is to hand 
the election to Obama on a platter- unforgivable


Randy Barnett @ Wall Street Journal (highlights mine):

As a young libertarian, I was very enthusiastic about the formation of the Libertarian Party. I proudly cast my vote for Roger MacBride for president. I attended the 1975 national convention in New York that nominated him. 

But, while I am as libertarian today as I was then, I have come to believe that the Libertarian Party was a mistake.

The reason is simple. Unlike a parliamentary system in which governments are formed by coalitions of large and small parties, our electoral system is a first-past-the-post, winner-take-all one in which a winning presidential candidate just needs to get more than 50% of the vote. This means each contending "major" party is itself a coalition that needs to assemble enough diverse voting groups within it to get to 51%. Hence the need to appeal to the so-called moderates and independents rather than the more "extreme" elements within. 

To the extent that a third party is successful, it will drain votes from the coalition party to which it is closest and help elect the coalition party that is further removed from its interests. The Libertarian Party's effort will, if effective, attract more libertarian voters away from the candidate who is marginally less hostile to liberty, and help hand the election to the candidate who is more hostile to liberty...

Some have defended the LP by saying it is an expressive outlet for political libertarians, as distinct from more intellectual or policy types. Here too the LP has been counterproductive. 

By drawing libertarian politicos from both major parties, the LP makes these parties less libertarian at the margin than they would otherwise be...




Some of you have excuses for staying home, but unless you’ve been crippled by some burdensome medical condition, there is no excuse for not going to the polls and pulling the lever for Romney.

Randy Barrett explains in a WSJ column why 
voting Libertarian this year is counterproductive.


If you don’t know where your polling place is, what the hours are, or what the ballot looks like, this helpful link will get you what you need....

________________________________________________________________________________
WSJ   The Other McCain  About.com   Accordion Guy 



TOPICS: Government; History; Humor; Politics
KEYWORDS: 2012; election; elections; libertarian; paulbots; romney2012; vote; voteromney

1 posted on 11/06/2012 7:23:31 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
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To: AdvisorB; sten; ken5050

*** PING ***


2 posted on 11/06/2012 7:24:21 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
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To: Reaganite Republican

Ron Paul. The *hetero* David Duke.


3 posted on 11/06/2012 7:29:48 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (I will fear no muslim))
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To: Reaganite Republican

I agree with you about Ron Paul. But calling those voters names is not likely to convince them. Be nice.


4 posted on 11/06/2012 7:30:10 AM PST by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Reaganite Republican

Shh...don’t let this get around, but the dirty little secret about our political system is this: the flaw in the system is not the number of parties - it’s human nature.

That won’t change, no matter how many or how few parties we have.


5 posted on 11/06/2012 7:32:07 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("GONE: The Four Year Wave That Rocked The Bubble" due out Nov 8th)
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To: Hardraade

This thread is certainly likely to win over their votes.


6 posted on 11/06/2012 7:34:42 AM PST by mcjordansc
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To: Reaganite Republican

Many of us are in states that are not in play.

I voted for Tom Hoefling this morning in Illinois.

I hope Romney defeats Obama.
Then I look forward to defeating Romney in 2016.

In the meantime, I would be pleasantly surprised if Romney truly changed after a whole lifetime of being Romney. Even if he lives down to expectations, I will be grateful that the aggressiveness of the attack on great American institutions and religious freedom will be attenuated.


7 posted on 11/06/2012 7:36:15 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: Reaganite Republican

Most committed paultards will either write in Ron Paul or vote for Obama. Very few are really Republicans and most never had any intention of voting for the eventual GOP nominee.

Paulbots were simply trying to take over the GOP, even though the vast majority of conservatives completely oppose about 50% of their agenda.

Never trust a paultard. These people have nearly reached cult status. I am not convinced paulbots will even stop supporting Ron Paul after he has passed away.


8 posted on 11/06/2012 7:36:37 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: Reaganite Republican

It should scare anyone whats going on in our schools and this election may be one of our last chances to have a say.

I never knew it was this bad.

Today my co-worker(democrat) said her son in elementary school had their Mock-Election yesterday. The vote: 90% Obama / 10% Romney . She said her son came home and said he doesn’t like Romney. She didn’t know how her son even knew who he was, but was happy that at least the school is teaching him something. Utter shame.

Make your vote count.


9 posted on 11/06/2012 7:37:10 AM PST by SuperGater
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To: Reaganite Republican

May the heros of Benghazi be proud of how we vote today.

They gave their lives for us, now we need to give our votes for them.

Vote as if the lives of our Military Men and Women depended on it.

[Pass it on.]


10 posted on 11/06/2012 7:37:37 AM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Reaganite Republican

Trust me - someone who is dead set on voting for a third party will not be swayed by anything as tawdry as facts or reason. They have their sacred “principles,” don’t you know?

Only once they see for themselves will they waker up.

Trust me. Been there, done that, not interested in going back.


11 posted on 11/06/2012 7:40:20 AM PST by Yashcheritsiy (It's time to make Obama a minor footnote in the pages of history)
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To: SuperGater

Oh, I remember my teachers indoctrinating us re. how great Jimmy Carter was going to be, I was twelve at the time.

I came home saying something about how Carter seemed ‘cool’ and my parents about spit out their dinner on the table lol


12 posted on 11/06/2012 7:41:56 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
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To: Reaganite Republican

but what about my weeed man?


13 posted on 11/06/2012 7:43:32 AM PST by MNDude (OWS Movement RIP)
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To: mcjordansc

Nothing is likely to win over their votes. Crazy is crazy.

Which reminds me, I have to peek into Stormfront and watch the gnashing of teeth and their Paul-plots.


14 posted on 11/06/2012 7:47:06 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (I will fear no muslim))
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To: Reaganite Republican
Randy Barnett errs in thinking that with our particular system you need to go after the independents and moderates.

The opposite is true ~ you need to go after THOSE WITHIN who I believe he tagged as "more extreme elements" . The reason is if they don't show up you don't win because you cannot make up for their absence with nearly non-existent independents or, yeccchhh, moderates!

You can play coalition building during the primary/caucus/convention stage of political play, but by the time you have one of the two major coalition group nominations, that's all over. From that point on out the real game is TURNOUT and Suppression of the other coalition's votes ~ mostly by telling them how absolutely intolerable and evil their own candidate is, or will become.

The earliest proponents of this point of view were Barry Goldwater and Lyndon Baines Johnson. Goldwater messed with his coalition backers, and LBJ used turnout management to beat him like a cheap rug!

Richard Nixon figured it out and got elected two times after that ~ he had been a believer in the bell shaped normal curve with moderates in the middle but he abandoned that with 'Law and Order' ~ and then after him you had Ronald Reagan devise a powerful Republican coalition party and he swept to victory twice.

His successor, George Bush, screwed up by imagining there were moderates, et al ~ so he really lost bad, and so did Bob Dole who shared that view. Finally George "W" Bush came along and he didn't share his father's belief, and he won two times.

Obama's backers are into the game of building registrations while the candidates duke it out in primaries with lots of press coverage AND making sure they have all the major candidates facing off in primaries ~ that way no large constituent coalition groups get POd and turn against the party.

They follow it up with major get out the vote activities ~ plus a modicum of cheating!

The method works well unless your candidate really screws up the economy, so Obama is already DOWN 10 million early voting ballots!

Herbert Hoover taught everybody what it means when you founder around in a long term recession. Guess Democrats never bother looking at what went on with the Republicans!

BTW, there's a lead paragraph in Randy's piece that is so close to one I've developed and used many times over the last 9 years I'd suggest that he LIFTED IT from right here at Free Republic. Glad to see my stuff is in use, but I think Randy owes it to us to 'splain why he thinks everything beyond the first past the post coalition party section should be dropped in favor of the old fashioned, never did work right anyway, nonsense about moderates and independents.

Just rather leaves the whole thought hanging.

15 posted on 11/06/2012 7:50:33 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Reaganite Republican

I am a life-long Republican and I voted for Ron Paul in the primary. I also voted for Romney in the general election but those of you calling Paul supporters “Paulbots” aren’t helping Romney one bit. Sure there are some who will never be convinced but that isn’t all of us. I have worked hard to persuade fellow Paul supporters to join the team and have convinced many but this kind of divisive rhetoric including the derogatory word “Paulbot” is counter-productive and hurts Mitt Romney.


16 posted on 11/06/2012 7:51:08 AM PST by daniel885
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To: Yashcheritsiy
you meant 'wanker', right?

Thought so ~ just a few hours to go and it's back to normal. Actually, 8 hours and 12 minutes ~

17 posted on 11/06/2012 7:52:28 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Reaganite Republican
By drawing libertarian politicos from both major parties, the LP makes these parties less libertarian at the margin than they would otherwise be...
Hogwash.

If political parties can count on your vote, even though they don't support any of the policies you do, there is no incentive for them to change anything.
18 posted on 11/06/2012 7:54:10 AM PST by Mr. Know It All
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To: Longbow1969

About 95% of real Conservatives reject the Paulista dialogue totally.


19 posted on 11/06/2012 7:56:10 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Reaganite Republican

First - for the record - I am a Paul sympathizer who just voted for Romney.

Second - your insulting attitude towards those of us who have Libertarian sympathies, especially with regard to our impossible fiscal situation, is more likely to repel voters than attract them.

Finally - it wasn’t that long ago on this site wherein Romney supporters were labled “Mittbots” and sometimes even had their accounts banned.


20 posted on 11/06/2012 8:00:42 AM PST by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: Reaganite Republican

I voted for RP in the primary - today Romney Ryan

FUBO!

anyone claiming to be a libertarian yet knowingly aiding obama needs a beating.


21 posted on 11/06/2012 8:01:50 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Reaganite Republican

Oh, I remember my teachers indoctrinating us re. how great Jimmy Carter was going to be, I was twelve at the time.

lol. We had a mock election in school that year. I was in sixth grade so I was 12 as well (born in 1969). Anyway, I was all ready to vote for Reagan, but the pretty girl voted for Carter so I changed my vote....didn’t have a clue about either one of them or even what Republican or Democrat was, but I sure as hell knew what a beautiful girl was and if Carter was good for him, he was good for me....stupid youth things.


22 posted on 11/06/2012 8:04:54 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: Reaganite Republican

As I understand the democratic process, my vote is MY vote. Not yours. Not the party’s.


23 posted on 11/06/2012 8:12:51 AM PST by Claud
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To: muawiyah
The opposite is true ~ you need to go after THOSE WITHIN who I believe he tagged as "more extreme elements" . The reason is if they don't show up you don't win because you cannot make up for their absence with nearly non-existent independents or, yeccchhh, moderates!

So then, would you agree with the statement: “In striving to make the party appeal to everyone, the party can only succeed in appealing to no-one; by standing for nothing it only attracts those who will fall for anything.”

24 posted on 11/06/2012 8:14:16 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Reaganite Republican

I personally know a few people who support Ron Paul. One of my frequent golf buddy voted for him in 2008. This year he voted Green party. Other few I know are fervent libertarians.

This is only anecdotal...but the common thread I observe is they are not very successful financially. Other than they seem to be good people, especially my golfing pal.


25 posted on 11/06/2012 8:15:19 AM PST by entropy12 (The radical socialist from Chicago and Acorn lawyer must be defeated! VOTE him out!!)
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To: Reaganite Republican

I am a Libertarian but in this election, there is no way I would stay at home or vote Libertarian. There is way too much on the line to do that. Obama must be defeated at all costs.


26 posted on 11/06/2012 8:17:51 AM PST by TejanoJim
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To: jtal
Second - your insulting attitude towards those of us who have Libertarian sympathies, especially with regard to our impossible fiscal situation, is more likely to repel voters than attract them.

Seriously! This is a tough election that demands tough choices...and you are so right about this board being flagrantly anti-Romney a few months ago.

I'm not blaming anyone for voting whichever way they do, and I pray God I will celebrate Obama's leaving office with all of you tonight.

But the problems that most of us see with a Romney election won't go away. They are MUCH more preferable to the disaster of 4 more years of Obama, but they are still there and they *are still a threat to the existence of this Republic*.

27 posted on 11/06/2012 8:23:44 AM PST by Claud
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To: OneWingedShark
The party must first appeal to virtually all its coalition partners in some serious way before engaging in the general election. That means the candidates must be acceptable ~ if a candidate is not acceptable to one or more of your larger identifiable coalition partners, you will lose.

You do not need to appeal to anyone outside your coalition partners ~ the reason is that among politically motivated folks, who can be expected to vote, they are NOT going to switch and vote for the other guy.

Your best source of new voters is among the 90 million adults who don't vote. Your worst source of new voters is among the other major coalition party's members.

The italicized statement you posted would not be a way to win elections because, as it turns out, when you stand for nothing, appeal to no one, and imagine you can win anything, you will be amazed every time you try it! We won't be amazed however.

28 posted on 11/06/2012 8:25:53 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Claud
But the problems that most of us see with a Romney election won't go away. They are MUCH more preferable to the disaster of 4 more years of Obama, but they are still there and they *are still a threat to the existence of this Republic*.

One thing at a time, let's get Obama out first, then we'll cross that bridge with Romney.

29 posted on 11/06/2012 8:26:11 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

I understand that and I agree with you 100%. Get Obama out first.


30 posted on 11/06/2012 8:27:48 AM PST by Claud
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To: Yashcheritsiy

Why, yes, conforming to the (R) plantation has not done so well in the past, but, by golly, it’ll work THIS time.

But, just to make the rest of the (R) group happy, let’s cast aside our principles and (still, holding our noses) vote for ABO. At least we get OUR NE liberal guy in office.

Why, on the 1st day, w/ Boehner and McConnell, they’ll repeal all extra-Constitutional laws/Depts and start to follow the Constitution as they’ve swore to do (before).

Why not berate the Libertarians on this board, it’s not like the (R)’s NEED them anyway, right?! So, who cares WHOM they vote for?

Different plantation, but same slave owners. I’ll eat crow when I see a dept. shut down, laws rescinded and/or a budget surplus, but I’m not holding my breath.


31 posted on 11/06/2012 8:28:19 AM PST by i_robot73
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To: Claud; Reaganite Republican
Did he just say the Romney supporters were labeled "Mittbots"?

I don't recall labeling them that ~ it's pretty obvious what they are ~ as with the Paulbots, Bushbots, Obamabots ~ there are the Mittbots.

These petty battles over nomenclature will be won eventually ~ but I think this one is a pretty good one. It allows us to easily differentiate between True Conservatives and Mittbots, and GOP-e ~ after all the GOP-e aren't even real Republicans ~ and to a degree that is a situation that should be of serious concern to all of us.

At 7 PM EST, all the Mittbots in my book come back to life as MITTBOTS ~ the Obamabots turn into LOSERS.

Anyone got a problem with that?

32 posted on 11/06/2012 8:31:49 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: dfwgator

7 PM EST today ~ the bridge is crossed and the battle re-engaged!


33 posted on 11/06/2012 8:33:27 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
About 95% of real Conservatives reject the Paulista dialogue totally.

Did you make that statistic up just now, or did you pull it from some warm dark orifice where it has been festering?

If "Conservatives" reject limiting the Federal Government to it's Constitutionally authorized functions, then I guess I ain't one.

34 posted on 11/06/2012 8:34:14 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Reaganite Republican

I still think Ron Paul would have been the best bet for America’s future. His principles are more in line with our constitution and our founding fathers than any candidate in recent history.......even Reagan.

However, I hold my nose and support Romney; Obama’s go to go!!!!


35 posted on 11/06/2012 8:41:13 AM PST by ThinkingBuddha
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To: Smokin' Joe

you can’t sit there and cherry pick Libertarian beliefs ~ and say, ‘so there’. you guys have so much incompatible baggage, that one little item just doesn’t get you over the 5 % compatibility level.


36 posted on 11/06/2012 8:41:52 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Right. Imagine a coalition that would elect Romney....now a different fight like about homosexuality or abortion or slashing the budget. You may have to lose some folks in the original coalition and pick others up.


37 posted on 11/06/2012 8:44:45 AM PST by Claud
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To: Reaganite Republican

The DNC worked hard for Virgil and still no joy.


38 posted on 11/06/2012 8:56:30 AM PST by NoLibZone (If the black experience is about being hated, I know more about it than Whoppi does I'm a Republican)
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To: Reaganite Republican

any 3rd party presidnet will have to buy twice as many votes.

Top down will never work.


39 posted on 11/06/2012 8:58:05 AM PST by NoLibZone (If the black experience is about being hated, I know more about it than Whoppi does I'm a Republican)
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To: Claud
With Romney and that crowd in power we probably can't hold the Republican coalition together if any of those major issues are raised.

Romney will need to go along with the greater part of the party on those questions, or he'll suddenly find himself the head of a quite small party.

I think the first efforts have to be to go after the appointees he comes up with. Any of them unwilling to slash their agency's budget should be opposed. That's where you get control of the budget ~ right there in the agencies where the people work who 'do budget' every year.

Given his inclination to always appoint Democrats to the judiciary, we'll need to stop him in the Judiciary committee, which means we need to hop on that problem immediately ~ presuming the Republicans win control of the Senate, the seniormost Republican, Orin Hatch, is going to have to PROVE his Social Conservative inclinations ~ we don't want any of that 'I don't want to push my personal beliefs on the barbarians around me' nonsense. Hatch has to come across regarding Committee Chairmanships or we lose the judiciary to another long period of fascist pig domination!

40 posted on 11/06/2012 8:58:05 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Reaganite Republican

RP. endorsed Paul Ryan....so anyone who was subscribed to R.P. votes for Ryan now...Its honoring Mr. Paul....


41 posted on 11/06/2012 9:07:55 AM PST by Therapsid (Communism has killed 50-60 Million people in only 50 yrs.)
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To: i_robot73

Great post, especially the last line.


42 posted on 11/06/2012 9:52:01 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Claud

“As I understand the democratic process, my vote is MY vote. Not yours. Not the party’s.”

When people say voting for a 3rd party candidate is voting for Obama, they are assuming your vote BELONGS to the GOP to begin with. It’s flawed logic. Kudos to you!

I voted Virgil Goode this morning.


43 posted on 11/06/2012 10:13:36 AM PST by libdestroyer
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To: Claud

Kudos, head on.


44 posted on 11/06/2012 4:15:20 PM PST by i_robot73
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To: OneWingedShark

Thanks. I just get tired of the (R) plantation slaves trying to keep the rest of us, to borrow a phrase from ‘ol Joe, in chains that they’ve forged for the party


45 posted on 11/06/2012 4:19:11 PM PST by i_robot73
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To: OneWingedShark

Thanks. I just get tired of the (R) plantation slaves trying to keep the rest of us, to borrow a phrase from ‘ol Joe, in chains that they’ve forged for the party


46 posted on 11/06/2012 4:19:14 PM PST by i_robot73
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To: OneWingedShark

Thanks. I just get tired of the (R) plantation slaves trying to keep the rest of us, to borrow a phrase from ‘ol Joe, in chains that they’ve forged for the party


47 posted on 11/06/2012 4:19:18 PM PST by i_robot73
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