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Atheist Richard Dawkins: We Are ‘Apes,‘ Evidence for Jesus’ Existence ‘Is Surprisingly Shaky’
The Blaze ^ | August 26, 2012 | Billy Hallowell

Posted on 08/27/2012 2:13:45 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Famed atheist Richard Dawkins sat down with Playboy Magazine to discuss “the simple beauty of evolution, the improbability of God and why the pope should be arrested,” among other subjects. As usual, Dawkins took a provocative approach in the interview — one that people of faith will surely find offensive. These contentious anti-religious views appear in the September issue of Playboy.

(VIDEO AT LINK)

Toward the beginning of the interview, Dawkins was asked to weigh in and explain why, in the past, he has called himself a “tooth faith” agnostic. His explanation essentially frames his overarching views on God’s existence. Here’s how the dialogue unfolded:

PLAYBOY: You’ve described yourself as a “tooth fairy” agnostic. What is that?

DAWKINS: Rather than say he’s an atheist, a friend of mine says, “I’m a tooth fairy agnostic,” meaning he can’t disprove God but thinks God is about as likely as the tooth fairy.

PLAYBOY: So you don’t completely rule out the idea of a supreme being. Critics see that as leaving an opening.

DAWKINS: You can think so, if you think there’s an opening for the tooth fairy.

While it’s unlikely that the Lord exists — at least in Dawkins’ mind — if given the opportunity to ask the creator (in the unlikely event he’s real) a question, the famed biologist said he’d ask, “Sir, why did you go to such lengths to hide yourself?”

When it comes to the individuals Dawkins associates himself with, he admitted not having any “deeply religious friends.” In addition to separating himself from those who believe in a higher power, Dawkins took a swipe at the intellectual capacity of those who embrace God.

“It’s not that I shun them,” he said of the religious. “It’s that the circles I move in tend to be educated, intelligent circles, and there aren’t any religious people among them that I know of.”

Of course, many intelligent and educated people do, indeed, embrace the existence of a higher power. However, it seems Dawkins either avoids or simply hasn’t encountered these people.

As for the Bible and Jesus Christ — central tenets of the Christian faith — the famed non-theist didn’t have many favorable accolades to share. On the sociopolitical front, he believes that the holy books associated with Christianity, Judaism and Islam will prevent peace from ever coming to fruition in the Middle East.

“There’s not much hope to the extent that the most influential protagonists both base their hostility on 2,000-year-old books that they believe give them title to the land,” he explained.

Rather than staking the claim that Jesus Christ was merely a historical figure, but that he simply wasn’t the son of God as many other atheists have done, Dawkins seems to cast doubt on his existence.

“The evidence he existed is surprisingly shaky,” he told Playboy. “The earliest books in the New Testament to be written were the Epistles, not the Gospels. It’s almost as though Saint Paul and others who wrote the Epistles weren’t that interested in whether Jesus was real.”

“Even if he’s fictional, whoever wrote his lines was ahead of his time in terms of moral philosophy,” he added.

Dawkins called the idea that “Jesus died for our sins” “barking mad.” At the center of his angst over the salvation story is the notion that God found the need to torture himself to the point of death. He called the entire story “a truly disgusting idea.”

While he holds these intense views, he did admit that he hasn’t read the entire Bible, but that he believes his knowledge of it is more profound than “most fundamentalist Christians.” Despite not having read the entire book, the evolutionary biologist said that the book of Ecclesiastes is his favorite.

Dawkins also criticized the Pope and made the case against his alleged cover-up of crimes that were committed by clergy. He also went on to address evolution and his view that human beings are essentially “apes”:

PLAYBOY: Let’s turn to evolution, which many people misunderstand, such as believing we descend from apes.

DAWKINS: We are apes. We descend from extinct animals that would have been classified as apes. We are not descended from modern chimps or bonobos or gorillas. They’ve been evolving for exactly the same length of time as we have.

PLAYBOY: So what makes us human?

DAWKINS: We are a unique ape. We have language. Other animals have systems of communication that fall far short of that. They don’t have the same ability to communicate complicated conditionals and what-ifs and talk about things that are not present. These are all unique manifestations of our evolved ape brain, which some evidence suggests came about through a rather limited number of mutations.

These, of course, are only the highlights. While Dawkins has shared many of these views before, he reiterated, clarified and intensified his stance on non-belief and theism in his Playboy dialogue.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: atheism; bible; christianity; creation; evolution; israel; jesus; judaism
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"Beyond the pale" doesn't begin to describe it.
1 posted on 08/27/2012 2:13:57 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

And it would be barking mad. Unless of course as Ronald Reagan once said, “HE is who he said HE was.”


2 posted on 08/27/2012 2:18:24 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Not much said regarding Muslims.


3 posted on 08/27/2012 2:18:32 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

ted kennedy will meet this GODless creature when he arrives in hell. “Yeah richard... the Bible was all true”.

LLS


4 posted on 08/27/2012 2:19:18 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Sarah speaking at the romney convention would be like Led Zeppelin opening for The Monkees)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

That is almost a first, as there can be debate on whether Jesus was God in incarnate, but there usually is not much debate on whether he existed or not.


5 posted on 08/27/2012 2:19:46 PM PDT by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Sounds racist to me.


6 posted on 08/27/2012 2:21:13 PM PDT by TribalPrincess2U (0bama's agenda—Divide and conquer. FREEDOM OR FREE STUFF YOU GET ONE CHOICE CHOOSE WISELY)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
if given the opportunity to ask the creator (in the unlikely event he’s real) a question, the famed biologist said he’d ask, “Sir, why did you go to such lengths to hide yourself?”

But he doesn't hide himself. It always surprises me when a "scientist" doesn't see him plain as day.

7 posted on 08/27/2012 2:21:40 PM PDT by marron
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

““It’s not that I shun them,” he said of the religious. “It’s that the circles I move in tend to be educated, intelligent circles, and there aren’t any religious people among them that I know of.”

Huh. That smart and he doesn’t know how to construct a sentence? Go figure. Unless, of course, he really does move among circles and they are inanimate. There may be such circles, but their existence is something about which I am unaware.


8 posted on 08/27/2012 2:21:54 PM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

...because there’s no evidence of a body?


9 posted on 08/27/2012 2:23:31 PM PDT by RichInOC (Jesus is coming back soon...and man, is He ticked off. (I'm trying to keep it clean.))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I stopped taking it seriously when I saw the interviewer listed as “Playboy”.

Really doubt Richard Dawkins is qualified to speak on the evidence of Jesus’s existence from either a scientific or historical standpoint.


10 posted on 08/27/2012 2:24:03 PM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Interesting that the man has such fear of God he has become insane, trying to run from the Almighty.


11 posted on 08/27/2012 2:24:40 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LibLieSlayer

“ted kennedy will meet this GODless creature when he arrives in hell. “Yeah richard... the Bible was all true”.

Ted Kennedy (D-HELL) will undoubtedly represent him.


12 posted on 08/27/2012 2:25:20 PM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Dawkins is a particularly dim self-promoter who has a jones for notoriety earned by insulting God. See ya. Wouldn’t wanna be ya.


13 posted on 08/27/2012 2:27:45 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Democrats new name = The CSA - The Communist/Satanic/Anti-American Party)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Dawkins is extremely sloppy in his argumentation - he reveals that he has not done his research.

The Israelis and Arabs fighting over Israel aren't referencing "2,000 year old books."

The Torah, even by the most liberal textual critical standard, is 2500 years and the Koran is 1300 years old.

In his letters, Paul explicitly says that if the crucifixion did not happen, then his words are meaningless.

Everything he says about religion demonstrates that he is only vaguely acquainted with the history and texts he is criticizing.

14 posted on 08/27/2012 2:28:23 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; FatherofFive
Some one once told Mother Angelica that they didn't beleive in hell, she replied, "You will when you get there."

That pretty much sums up my view on Dawkins.

15 posted on 08/27/2012 2:28:35 PM PDT by verga (Forced to remove tag line by administrator)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Mr. Dawkins could you please explain why, that if there is no God, did the universe bother to create itself?


16 posted on 08/27/2012 2:30:21 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: TribalPrincess2U

Truly amazing. It appears there may actually be a person walking the face of this Earth with an even larger ego than Barack Obama. Who da thunk it!!!


17 posted on 08/27/2012 2:31:28 PM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hey, Dick: if I’m wrong, oh well. If you’re wrong...well, I’d rather be in my position than in yours.

Jesus Reigns!


18 posted on 08/27/2012 2:33:53 PM PDT by jagusafr
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“The evidence he existed is surprisingly shaky,” he told Playboy. “The earliest books in the New Testament to be written were the Epistles, not the Gospels. It’s almost as though Saint Paul and others who wrote the Epistles weren’t that interested in whether Jesus was real.”

Doctor, Saint Paul apparently thought He was real enough to change from killing Christians to dying under the sword as one.

19 posted on 08/27/2012 2:36:45 PM PDT by RichInOC (Jesus is coming back soon...and man, is He ticked off. (I'm trying to keep it clean.))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Gotta love how this guy blasts creationists in one breathe and in the same breathe he agrees with them that the Catholic Church is an evil cult and the Pope is the enemy. If Dawkins wants to promote evolution so much, why doesn't he spend his time targeting denominations of Christianity that teach young-earth creationism, instead of constantly trashing a religious figure who AGREES with him about evolution?
20 posted on 08/27/2012 2:38:35 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As if I give a smelly Obama about Dawkin’s ideas.

He’s not exactly in a profession that’s up there with physics or math now, is he?


21 posted on 08/27/2012 2:38:37 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The evidence for Richard Dawkins is surprisingly shaky.


22 posted on 08/27/2012 2:38:56 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“Sir, why did you go to such lengths to hide yourself?”

Read the Bible. God reveals himself. Ya lost jackwagon.
23 posted on 08/27/2012 2:39:45 PM PDT by crosshairs (America: Once the land of the free. Still the home of the brave.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Major Kira: "That's the thing about faith. If you don't have it you can't understand it, and if you do - no explanation is necessary."
"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" Accession (1996)
24 posted on 08/27/2012 2:40:28 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He’ll find the truth soon enough.


25 posted on 08/27/2012 2:41:23 PM PDT by DallasDeb (usafa06mom)
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To: All

Historically there is more than sufficient records to not that a person named Jesus did exist and he did his “speaking tour” and he was crucified.

The meme of “did not exist” is an atheist propaganda point. It is like the USSR though exercises to disprove capitalism is real.


26 posted on 08/27/2012 2:42:32 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: massgopguy

Pairs of particles are constantly being created out of nothing, by “borrowing” the energy from the potential of the vacuum. When the particles (a particle and an anti-particle) recombine, they destroy each other and repay the energy debt to the vacuum.

It’s believed that space below the Planck level is a seething froth of particle creation and destruction, which we cannot see, much like you can’t see the small waves of the ocean from an airplane.

In the first moments, the universe was infinitely dense, unimaginably hot, and contained pure energy. But witnin a tiny fraction of a nanosecond, vast numbers of fundamental particles had appeared, created out of energy as the universe cooled.


27 posted on 08/27/2012 2:45:38 PM PDT by moonshot925
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Then why is he loose from the Ape House? Someone go round him up and put him back in his enclosure.


28 posted on 08/27/2012 2:47:38 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
What differentiates us from the "other apes" is that the other apes don't send money when they get a piece of junk mail from the Southern Poverty Law Center. We are the gullible apes. Homo insipiens.
29 posted on 08/27/2012 2:47:51 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Huskrrrr
Not much said regarding Muslims.

skeptic Penn Jillette(noted magician and atheist) onced said he kept off the Muslim tack as he hoped to live a long life(this was for his ‘Bull$h!t’, show he also said he kept away from scientology because the network insisted). Something to be said about sects that scares the crud outta people, but that government treats with kid gloves instead of firearms.

30 posted on 08/27/2012 2:49:33 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: longtermmemmory

This claim has been around for some time. I remember reading a newspaper column more than 30 years ago where the columnist noted the fact that there are some people who deny that Jesus Christ ever existed. His comment was “If that’s true, then the Thirty Years War wasn’t necessary.”


31 posted on 08/27/2012 2:50:49 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He’s a smug, know-it-all liberal bastard. You can tell he’s a teacher. Thinks he knows it all, thinks everyone he associates with is of superior intellect, thinks he’s more learned about Christianity than those who practice it and read the bible.

He claims to be so intelligent yet can’t understand why God would send His Son to die for us, to take our deserved punishment for sins onto Himself. This is why the logic of natural man is unable to find God on its own. Much less, save man himself.

If he honestly doesn’t ask God to save Him, he’s going to find out just how NOT “tooth fairy” God is.


32 posted on 08/27/2012 2:53:15 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: longtermmemmory

Historically there is more than sufficient records to not that a person named Jesus did exist and he did his “speaking tour” and he was crucified.

The meme of “did not exist” is an atheist propaganda point. It is like the USSR though exercises to disprove capitalism is real.

exactly...one can debate divinity of Christ, but it is pretty hard to debate his existence...it is too well documented.

I personally think Islam is a bogus death cult, but there is no doubt that a pedophile named Mohammad existed

33 posted on 08/27/2012 2:55:24 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
When I want serious discussion of spiritual issues, I always turn to Playboy.
34 posted on 08/27/2012 2:55:38 PM PDT by JennysCool (My hypocrisy goes only so far)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
There is far more literal evidence of Christ than there is of these evolutionists secret pot of hot steamy primordial slime.
35 posted on 08/27/2012 2:55:57 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Have you donated to the 'resurrection of Akin' yet?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
How can someone who makes it a point to tell us he is THIS intelligent be THIS boundlessly boring?

Er...er...forget I asked.

36 posted on 08/27/2012 2:58:12 PM PDT by stevem
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“The evidence he existed is surprisingly shaky,” he told Playboy. “The earliest books in the New Testament to be written were the Epistles, not the Gospels. It’s almost as though Saint Paul and others who wrote the Epistles weren’t that interested in whether Jesus was real.”
Cornelius Tacitus, a Roman historian and no friend of Christianity, sure was convinced that he lived.
Such indeed were the precautions of human wisdom. The next thing was to seek means of propitiating the gods, and recourse was had to the Sibylline books, by the direction of which prayers were offered to Vulcanus, Ceres, and Proserpina. Juno, too, was entreated by the matrons, first, in the Capitol, then on the nearest part of the coast, whence water was procured to sprinkle the fane and image of the goddess. And there were sacred banquets and nightly vigils celebrated by married women. But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.
Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44
Will Durant, one of the greatest historians of the 20th century, and a self-described "reluctant" atheist wrote:
All this granted, much remains. The contradictions are of minutiae, not substance; in essentials the synoptic gospels agree remarkably well and form a consistent portrait of Christ. In the enthusiasm of its discoveries the Higher Criticism has applied to the New Testament tests of authenticity so severe that by them a hundred ancient worthies - e.g. Hammurabi, David, Socrates - would fade into legend. Despite the prejudices and theological preconceptions of the evangelists, they record many incidents that mere inventors would have concealed - the competition of the apostles for high places in the Kingdom, their flight after Jesus' arrest, Peter's denial, the failure of Christ to work miracles in Galilee, the references of some auditors to his possible insanity, his early uncertainty as to his mission, his confessions of ignorance as to the future, his moments of bitterness, his despairing cry on the cross; no one reading these scenes can doubt the reality of the figure behind them. That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels. After two centuries of Higher Criticism the outlines of the life, character, and teaching of Christ, remain reasonably clear, and constitute the most fascinating feature in the history of Western man.
Will Durant, The Story of Civilization, Vol 3, Caesar and Christ, Ch 26, Sec I.
I always chuckle when I read or hear interviews with these supposed intellectuals who do not seem to read much.
37 posted on 08/27/2012 3:04:52 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: wideawake
Paul explicitly says that if the crucifixion did not happen, then his words are meaningless.
Hate to be a stickler, but Paul said in 1 Cor 15 if the resurrection did not happen then it is all meaningless. Of course, the crucifixion is implied, but he was making the explicit point about the bodily resurrection.
38 posted on 08/27/2012 3:07:43 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Atheist Richard Dawkins: We Are ‘Apes,

Speak for yourself, Ape Boy.

39 posted on 08/27/2012 3:08:05 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“The evidence he existed is surprisingly shaky,” he told Playboy. “The earliest books in the New Testament to be written were the Epistles, not the Gospels. It’s almost as though Saint Paul and others who wrote the Epistles weren’t that interested in whether Jesus was real.”

Most athiests are fairly clueless when interacting with the text of the Bible ... but what we have here is a new standard for ignorance of all things Biblical.

1 Corinthians 15:3-8
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;
8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

Paul was fairly certain Jesus existed, perhaps Dawkins should undertake actually READING the Bible before commenting on it.

It’s that the circles I move in tend to be educated, intelligent circles, and there aren’t any religious people among them that I know of ...

Dawkins called the idea that “Jesus died for our sins” “barking mad.”

1 Cor. 1:18-21
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written,

“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

In summary Mr. Dawkins ... the joke is on you. Through all of your intellectual persuits you cannot find the savior that you desperately need ... nor even the reason why you need Him.

40 posted on 08/27/2012 3:16:21 PM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The existence of Jesus Christ was attested to by numerous witnesses and the fact that twelve of them at least were willing to die horrific deaths rather than recant what they saw and heard. Later on disinterested historic authorities such as Josephus took his “existence” at face value. Who would be willing to suffer such a fate for the sake of Richard Dawkins and can anybody swear they’ve actually met the SOB? Anybody?


41 posted on 08/27/2012 3:17:23 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: Huskrrrr

>>Not much said regarding Muslims.

He said that there is little evidence that Jesus even existed as a historical figure. That means he’s calling the Koran a lie and Mo’Ham-Ed a liar. Maybe he can get himself a fatwa.

Frankly, as a Christian, I don’t care what he says. He’s heard the Gospel and studied it and he made his choice.


42 posted on 08/27/2012 3:25:40 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Sir, why did you go to such lengths to hide yourself?”

Won’t wash, Dickie. God is inside your head. He KNOWS how you have run from Him, denied Him. He KNOWS how many times He has Touched you.


43 posted on 08/27/2012 3:31:13 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: katana

it is not the eye witness accounts but the actual written records of the day. For example the romans actualy kept written records of who was crucified and when.


44 posted on 08/27/2012 3:42:18 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

“If you seek Me, you will find Me, if you search for Me with all your heart....”


45 posted on 08/27/2012 3:48:08 PM PDT by nevermorelenore
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To: jessduntno
Huh. That smart and he doesn’t know how to construct a sentence? Go figure. Unless, of course, he really does move among circles and they are inanimate. There may be such circles, but their existence is something about which I am unaware.

circle (ˈsɜːk ə l) — n

5. a group of people sharing an interest, activity, upbringing, etc; set: golf circles ; a family circle

46 posted on 08/27/2012 4:24:47 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: jessduntno
I can't even imagine the place that those two will reside. I know it did snow there once... the year that the New Orleans Saints won the Superbowl.

LLS

47 posted on 08/27/2012 4:39:50 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Sarah speaking at the romney convention would be like Led Zeppelin opening for The Monkees)
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To: exDemMom

5. a group of people sharing an interest, activity, upbringing, etc; set: golf circles ; a family circle

“There may be such circles, but their existence is something about which I am unaware.”

I am sure the circles are animate. When referring to them they should be recognized as such. I also think, if I may be so bold, that the word “of” is a preposition and intelligent people generally concede they should avoid ending sentences in prepositions, which you made no mention of. Heh heh heh.


48 posted on 08/27/2012 6:37:05 PM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: longtermmemmory
I am unaware of any such records from Judea ever being found. Just copies of the writings of Josephus (who may have had original materials to work from). It has, after all, been two thousand years, Jerusalem was laid waste in 70 AD, and original documents of any kind from that period even in Rome itself are unheard of. Do you have a source or link? It is why the Dead Sea Scrolls are so absolutely exciting and priceless.

People like Dawkins point to that and say "A ha, no evidence!". But if we used the same standard on other historic figures we could equally say "where is the evidence that Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great actually existed?" The Egyptians left their records in stone and papyrus that was buried deep and dry. The Romans and Jews on parchment and wax tablets which are all long gone. Just copies of copies of copies (as with the Gospels) exist.

49 posted on 08/27/2012 6:59:03 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

His agnosticism on the historicity of Jess Christ simply paints him as a nut and does us Christians a huge favor.


50 posted on 08/27/2012 7:03:08 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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