CW2 Ping
Posted on 04/03/2012 7:41:49 PM PDT by Travis McGee
As I write this, it is in the evening of 3 April, 2012, and we are facing a potential Constitutional crisis of epic proportions. The President, who happens to be a Constitutional law professor, has made the assertion that it would be "unprecedented" for an unelected court (The Supremes) to strike down as unconstitutional a law passed by a majority of the elected Congress. We're all familiar with the superficial Constitutional issues, which is that courts do exactly this all the time. Because that is exactly their most important role. And, that it wouldn't matter one bit whether Congress passed the law unanimously; they could still strike it down. OK. We all have that.
What is more ominous is the potential crisis which would erupt if a President, riding the swell of righteous Constitutional indignation, or worse, ginned-up populist support, decided to enforce that law anyway (whatever it is doesn't matter). This isn't all that far-fetched, given how ludicrous the precipitating statement itself is.
OK, then what?
The Supreme Court can't enforce its judgments. Only the Executive can do that. But what if that Executive, of any administration, goes rogue and decides to simply ignore the ruling?
In the article Constitutional Quizzery, we discussed the concept that, constitutionally, the President owns your militia. So that's out.
In the article When to Shoot The Colonels, we discussed the fact that high-ranking military officials are political appointees, so the chance of them actually taking action against a sitting President is about nil.
This leaves Congress, which passed that law in the first place. Imagine that it is wildly supportive of whatever law was struck down. Beyond that, it has no enforcement power, either, so even if they impeach, then what?
What makes a sitting, impeached President step down anyway? Particularly if he doesn't want to? Or if his private security detail, provisioned from the Treasury Department, decides to take no action to remove him?
Not a damn thing, that's what. This would be, in effect, a bloodless military coup by the former Commander in Chief, and there is nothing in the Constitution to prevent it, other than gentleman's agreements to not. And, as we all know, the days of honoring agreements is long past gone in this country of double-breasted thieves. Oh, yeah, there's that Treasury thing again.
I'm not going to get into another long discussion of how the Constitution is broken. Been there, done that, doesn't matter anyway.
But I want you to consider this possibility. What if, instead of the President, the Supreme Court had authority, as the ultimate check and balance, to call out the irregular militia to enforce the striking down of laws which violate the Constitution should the President continue down the path he is currently on? Or to remove the former President if he and his team decide they don't want to leave? And to provide immunity from prosecution for these actions?
Imagine an order along the lines of "hit it local militias, take this long list of traitorous bastards out (or prevent this struck-down law from being enforced), and we'll make sure none of you get prosecuted." Because, after all, it is judges who judge.
I'm just saying.
Now, that would be the Supreme Militia.
So, what if this crisis continues to jump the tracks, and in desperation, the Supremes said just that?
By the way, to get your thumb on the pulse of the first barrier to local militia action, you might want to pose these questions to your local sheriff, who is on the other end of that constitutional pipeline:
1. Assume that the Supreme Court has struck down a federal law, but the DHS shows up in your county to enforce it anyway. What do you do? And no, you don't have time to consult with the state bigwigs, the DHS is busting down doors and hauling away your citizens, so you have to act now. 2. Assume that the Supreme Court has struck down a state law, but the state law enforcement officials show up in your county to enforce it anyway. What do you do?
I'm going to ask my sheriff exactly these questions. We'll see what he has to say, if anything. I'll let you know.
Because this wild-eyed crap isn't seeming so off the wall all of a sudden, is it?
“The President, who happens to be a Constitutional law professor”
Actually, he was an instructor, not even an Assistant Professor, and he taught some BS elective about race.
I bought that book.
Particularly enjoyed the section on “caveman economics.”
Made my son read it.
A “lecturer” to be precise... some scholar he...
I like that.
UP...!!!
A part-time guest lecturer to be even more precise. He lectured about Alinsky activism, according to those who attended his sessions.
If he strikes at the supreme court it should be the opening gun of CW II. This would nullify the Constitution of the USA. The states should pull away and form a New Confederacy—a new nation perhaps centered on Texas. With President Perry and VP Newt. Lets hope it doesn’t come to this.
” 1. Assume that the Supreme Court has struck down a federal law, but the DHS shows up in your county to enforce it anyway. What do you do? And no, you don’t have time to consult with the state bigwigs, the DHS is busting down doors and hauling away your citizens, so you have to act now. 2. Assume that the Supreme Court has struck down a state law, but the state law enforcement officials show up in your county to enforce it anyway. What do you do?”
Great question;one with no easy answer.
The job was engineered by Ayers. He basically was a TA
Most of his book is great. Some of it I am not with him on. But I can’t expect 100%. It really is a good book overall though, I bought a copy.
In particular what the store owner should have done to the old woman the first time she walked into his store the way she did.
Because this wild-eyed crap isn’t seeming so off the wall all of a sudden, is it?
Not at all. If 0bama is re-elected, Free Republic might/probably will be, banned/shut down.
We need other ways to communicate.
I never thought I’d live to see what’s happening to my country, Matt. To be honest with you I’d hoped I’d be gone when it did. But now....
It’s ok my friend
When the time comes we old guys will have to pick up the mantle of freedom one more time.
What better way to die?
“But what if that Executive, of any administration, goes rogue and decides to simply ignore the ruling?”
We’re about to live it. Chairman Obama has ignored court rulings before, why would we expect anything else, especially when it comes to one of his socialist pet projects.
I came to the conclusion tonight that we are kicking against the pricks. With the GOP being anti-conservative and pro Comrade Romney and anti-constitution, what are we doing here? Bitching and advancing nothing.
I am very close to being done with it.
Well, Sara, my dear, I’ve made the choice to pay attention and comment. Other than that I’ll believe that God is in charge and whatever happens will be His will.
“With the GOP being anti-conservative and pro Comrade Romney and anti-constitution, what are we doing here? Bitching and advancing nothing.
I am very close to being done with it.”
We’re in a complete mess. Normally, I’d give you my standard Pollyanna speech about how we should stick together, fight the good fight, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I don’t have any idea of what to say or do.
I wish I had a better answer. I really do.
People should move to a county with constitutional County Sheriffs. Or get rid of their bad Sheriff and get a good one. There is a sort of uprising of County Sheriffs going on. My County Sheriff is fighting the feds and on the board of directors of a sheriff org.
He was a “lecturer”. Pretty insignificant. The “professor” lie is rarely caught.
You made me curious. I just downloaded the book and that chapter IS hilarious; but educational.
I’m asking my state rep what actions will he support in this instance. Should be interesting; will report back.
I sure don't.
Why should my grandchildren and great-grandchildren bear the burden?
I'm in a Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" mood.
There's "you"==me ...and then there is "you"==the general population.
So the most important answer isn't what "I", myself ( Being a Marine only a few years from 80-years of age and able to remember what the Nation was like when there were at least half of our original liberties still intact), would do.
The important answer is what 95% of the general population would do.
IMHO, simply look back at recent history when three separate tyrannies slaughtered hundreds of millions of their population without their general populations doing anything except bowing their collective heads in submission.
Our Founders started with an initial estimated 5-to-10 percent of the population willing to sacrifice everything. Their bravery was rewarded in large part because of existing in a time of:
We have ventured too far into Reagan's prophecy. I weep for my children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren...
For decades, I was convinced it was really a twisted novel. Nothing remotely as dark and twisted could possibly occur in real life, in the US of A.
Now it seems prophetic.
I am sure Harry Reid, Anthony (the) Weiner and Nancy Pelosi are all in there somewhere;
As for Obama? Gotta be the main leader of the Dark Side.
By the way, it is available in PDF format in several web sites. Since banning books actually has existed for some years, now, the IP address never stays stable for too long.
At the time, I speculated that when the Legislative and the Executive colluded to ignore the Constitution, it was game over.
I clearly remember the closing words,
"What alternative is left (to armed insurrection)?"
Clearly at that point neat, rational Constitutional Amendments are not a likely option, as we are presently witnessing.
The Founding Fathers were simply incapable of including a remedy to that scenario, other than the implied repetition of the Declaration of Independence.
But there is a bright side, which can be discussed another day.
I agree with you. A lot of the book is just brilliant, and some of it I can’t accept, but it’s a must read just the same.
Without the military, which would NOT participate in turning their own country into Iraq/Afghanistan, it'd be game over for Mordor.
Learn to use a HAM radio! Call your local emergency management office and ask them when they hold licensing classes. They're usually only $20 for the book, the technician exam is incredibly easy, and you'll learn the basics of using the airwaves to communicate. The government might be able to hunt down a fixed broadcast signal with the right tools, but any man on the run with an HT (handy-talkie) is virtually impossible to silence. They can listen, but they can't shut it down (like a cell phone, for instance).
There's a LOT of talk about revolution. Moreso than I remember under Bush. I wonder if the Left was so unctuous during Bush. But then I don't wonder if they had the armament to effect anything more than a rally of stinky hippies.
On an unrelated note, does anyone find it comical that Van Jones said that blacks would still overwhelmingly vote for Obama even if he came out as gay? Oh the tragic comedy!
Fixed.
Fixed.
Continue to stock pile ammunition, even if you don't own a weapon, your cache will be important. I recommend 223 or 556 mm ammo.
We’ll see. A lot depends on the military following “orders” or their oath to defend the Constitution.
A lot also depends on the lower courts, and the state. If you are arrested for breaking a law which has been found unconstitutional, the local judge is supposed to order your release.
And in a state like Indiana, legislation passed last month allows you to legally open fire upon LEOs who illegally attempt to use force against you.
In a full constitutional meltdown scenario the current Federal Standing Army is not a factor. It will dissolve as states form militias etc. Rioting in major cities will have to be quelled too. Most of the Federales equipment is deployed overseas anyway right now. I can’t see giving orders to guys in Afghanistan to break off fly home and kill your fellow Americans. I see alot of throw down in this scenario (except for a few hard core types).
if the founder couldve ever imagined the instant comms and databases available to centralized government, would they even have bothered with the rest of the Amendments ???
my bet is that they wouldve simply codified lynching for all public servants that usurp any power...
but being gentlemen, and CHRISTians, they had to play the shades of grey game, and allow evil power-lust types a chance to repent via the ballot box...
its mans destiny to be 'ruled' by power whores until it gets bad enuff to refuse...however that will work...
Indeed. Any rioting by the usual opportunist miscreants would cause further dissension/desertion in the Mordor ranks as local LEOs stay home to protect their own. A collapse of society/services in major cities would exacerbate that chaos and erode Regime support as the dependent class of society seeks to be taken care of, not fight.
We need a more active role for citizen militia. Working in conjunction with local Sheriff's Departments, or as an extension of the Courts as defined above. Even if most of it only amounts to just helping direct traffic during severe weather/accidents/evacuations.
Yes, it'd still be chock full of "never was", non-hacking, wanna-be Rambo, Mall Ninjas. Giving the Militia a real role to play could entice former .mil guys like me to get involved and to see if we can't unf*ck their cluster for them.
The founding fathers held that We the People are responsible as the Supreme Militia. They even gave us the Second Amendment to help us ensure it.
Thanks for the input
Thanks, rarestia.
Yes, the tragic comedy.
” Obama has ignored court rulings before, why would we expect anything else, especially when it comes to one of his socialist pet projects.”
He ignores anything and everything that he doesn’t like.
Laws, orders, constitution, everything.
” I never thought I’d live to see what’s happening to my country, Matt”
NONE of us did....not this fast, anyway.
Good idea.
Learn to use a HAM radio! Call your local emergency management office and ask them when they hold licensing classes.
Good advice! I've just started. I'm using HamTestOnline to study.
If things descend into chaos, the LEOs are likely to think of their own families first, as happened in the LA Riots and Katrina. Add to that that they would not want to stomp on the friends and relatives of their neighbors.
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