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NASA Publicly Reveals LENR Research
Cold Fusion News ^ | Jan 12 2012 | admin

Posted on 01/12/2012 8:58:28 PM PST by Kevmo

NASA Publicly Reveals LENR Research

January 12, 2012

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration or NASA has announced that it is working to develop a low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) or cold fusion power source. The agency has posted a video online that features a senior research scientist discussing LENR and explaining how it works.

The scientist is Dr. Joseph Zawodny a Senior Research Scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Virginia near Washington DC.

Joseph Zawodny courtesy NASA

“It has demonstrated ability to produce excess amounts of energy cleanly without hazardous ionizing radiation without producing nasty waste,” Zawodny told the camera. In the video Zawodny stated that NASA’s method for enhancement of surface Plasmon Polaritons to initiate and sustain LENR releases energy by adding neutrons. When enough neutrons are added they sponteaneously decay into something of the same mass but another element.

 

In the video an announcer describes the system as:

NASA’s method for Enhancement of Surface Plasmon Polaritrons to Initiate and Sustain LENR in Metal Hydride Solutions a clean nuclear energy for your power operated technology.”

 

This sounds a lot like Andrea Rossi’s e-cat LENR device. The video shows images from the US Navy SPAWAR  which was reportedly working on LENR devices of its own. A recent internet rumor has stated that SPAWAR has shut down its cold fusion research. No Mention is made of SPAWAR the Navy’s research arm in the video.

 

Zawodny did not mention Rossi or e-cat but he described a home use of the process that sounds a lot like Rossi’s. He mentioned that it could be used for heating, cool, water heating and electricity production in the home.

 

“The easiest implementation of this would be for the home. You would have a unit that would replace your water heater you would have some sort of cycle to derive electricity from that,” Zawodny said. “It would be a dual use thing it would produce heat, the waste heat would be used for environmental control and warm water.”

 

Interestingly enough Dr. Dennis M. Bushnell another senior scientist at Langely who is also involved in LENR research is not mentioned or shown in the video.

Nor or are any high level NASA officials shown. Scientists are shown working at computers but no LENR devices are shown. Instead stock footage of planes, trains and trucks is shown and fossil fuels are mentioned.

Facilities and Personnel at NASA's Langley Research Center

This is a very interesting development especially when there is widespread public interest in LENR and public pressure to investigate it. Combined with reports that the US Department of Energy could be changing its mind on the topic this is really good news. LENR skeptics won’t be able to dismiss Zawodny as a “cold fusion crank.”

 

There are some interesting implications from this, NASA could be getting ready to ask Congress for funding for LENR research. Or the Agency could be getting ready to patent a process. If that happens it could affect both Andrea Rossi and the Greek company Defaklion that claim to have working LENR heating devices. Rossi is selling such a device right now. Both he and Defkalion are planning to bring out home heating units using LENR this year.

 

One interesting development could be that NASA is planning to commercialize LENR. That could lead to a legal battle with Rossi and the companies he has licensed. There have been some unconfirmed rumors that NASA has purchased one of Rossi’s e-cat cold fusion devices. Other rumors indicate that the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency at the Pentagon or DARPA was the customer.

 

I also have to wonder if NASA has a working LENR device of some sort. If it does that could be a real game changer. We would also have to wonder why NASA hasn’t revealed the device to the public or the press. Perhaps they’re waiting for tests or a patent.

Concept drawing of a 5KW E-cat for home use Courtesy Ecat.com

Another possibility is that President Obama is keeping the device under wraps and planning to publicly unveil it during the Presidential campaign this fall. That would certainly get him a few votes. This is highly probably because it would justify his green energy technology agenda which has received a lot of criticism in recent months.

 

Either way it looks like the LENR deniers are going to have to change their tunes and eat their words. It also looks like this revolutionary energy source has high level support in Washington.

Related search:

Post by jennifer in Breakthrough, E-Cat, Energy, Experiments, Investment, LENR, News, Products, Rossi



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Politics; Science
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
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1 posted on 01/12/2012 8:58:39 PM PST by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

http://coldfusion3.com/blog/nasa-publicly-reveals-lenr-research

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://ecatnow.com/2012/01/12/video-nasa-admits-lenr-can-power-the-world/

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

——————————————————————————————— http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144


2 posted on 01/12/2012 9:00:54 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo

Smells like...credibility!

I’m waiting for that home CHP unit so we can all go off the grid.


3 posted on 01/12/2012 9:06:00 PM PST by bigbob
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To: bigbob
I’m waiting for that home CHP unit so we can all go off the grid.

Ask yourself, would Obama remove militant islam's sole source of income?

4 posted on 01/12/2012 9:09:33 PM PST by null and void (Day 1086 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: Kevmo
This sounds a lot like Andrea Rossi’s e-cat LENR device.

Yet another blog post "copy and pasted" as an excuse to mention ex-con Rossi.

5 posted on 01/12/2012 9:38:57 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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6 posted on 01/12/2012 9:43:40 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
This is not the first time NASA has dabbled in scams.
7 posted on 01/12/2012 9:44:25 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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8 posted on 01/12/2012 9:45:06 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Moonman62

“This is not the first time NASA has dabbled in scams.”

What the hell is wrong with you???


9 posted on 01/12/2012 9:50:43 PM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: bigbob

Smells like the article is wrong from the get-go when it says that Langley Research Center is outside of Washington. I guess a six hour drive to Hampton Roads/Norfolk counts as outside of Washington. When a basic fact like that was wrong, I cannot trust anything else that the author says.


10 posted on 01/12/2012 10:03:48 PM PST by Explorer89 (And now, let the wild rumpus start!!)
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To: babygene
Well....

As long as you promise to keep it to yourself.

I'm Distraught!

How can NASA discuss LENR without mentioning LENR's biggest superstar, Andrea Rossi?

11 posted on 01/12/2012 10:18:12 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Kevmo
I wonder if NASA has in some way stole it from Rossi. I hope not. I sure hope that Obama doesn't get any credit for it as he likely try to take it all. Hope he doesn't get one vote because of this. I imagine it was in the works long before he came around. If NASA has the right to it does that mean that we will have to buy it from the government? Will it make a profit and bring down our deficit in that way as well as be a huge shot in the arm for our economy because of cheap energy?
12 posted on 01/13/2012 12:00:17 AM PST by Bellflower
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To: bigbob

This will not be for the commoner


13 posted on 01/13/2012 3:12:45 AM PST by ronnie raygun (V)
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To: Bellflower
I wonder if NASA has in some way stole it from Rossi.
NASA looked at Rossi's E-Cat. It didn't work on the two days they were there to observe it, and Rossi threw them out when they asked questions about how it worked. LINK
14 posted on 01/13/2012 3:27:23 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
"NASA looked at Rossi's E-Cat. It didn't work on the two days they were there to observe it, and Rossi threw them out when they asked questions about how it worked."

It's interesting that some of the people "panning" Rossi most strongly just happen to fortuitously be coming out with their own patents and research announcements. To wit...Ahern, NASA.....

Think about that, conspiracy-boy.

15 posted on 01/13/2012 3:46:10 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo

This guy is a climate scientist


16 posted on 01/13/2012 4:07:13 AM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: Kevmo
This sounds a lot like Andrea Rossi’s e-cat LENR device.

No, it sounds NOTHING like Rossi's device. NASA says it adds neutrons while Rossi adds hydrogen, that is protons. Neutrons don't have the Coulomb barrier to deal with. You just need a neutron source (and therein lies the rub)...

17 posted on 01/13/2012 4:51:11 AM PST by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Johnny B.
From your link:
In the timeline shown in Nelson’s slides, Nelson omitted the Sept. 5 and 6, 2011 Rossi device tests performed in Bologna for engineers representing Quantum Energy Technologies. NASA representatives were present both days.

One of the eye-witnesses, a former NASA staff member, saw problems from the moment they arrived there.

“Rossi changed the game totally.” the witness said. “From the test plan, the device, everything. There was nothing there that we had agreed on. He had a 30 liter reservoir in there and he wouldn’t even let us see what was in the box or weigh the box.”

The Sept. 5 demonstration was inconclusive; Rossi’s device sprang a leak. The Sept. 6 demonstration was inconclusive; there was no outflow of steam or water.

On the second day, when the former NASA staff member asked Rossi if his device had an internal reservoir, Rossi became enraged. Quantum’s engineers left but NASA engineers offered to come back in a few days to give Rossi time to fix the flow. Rossi declined their offer. He said he was “too busy.”


18 posted on 01/13/2012 4:51:26 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
It's interesting that some of the people "panning" Rossi most strongly just happen to fortuitously be coming out with their own patents and research announcements.
Not as interesting as the fact the Rossi's gadget won't work when qualified outside observers are there to examine it.

Not as interesting as Rossi becoming "enraged" when they dared to ask meaningful questions about his gadget.

19 posted on 01/13/2012 5:05:04 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Moonman62
As I said in the other thread:

Here we have NASA pursuing the same line of research, validating the same theoretical basis for it (eg Widom/Larson, from a year and a half ago), talking about Ni/H reactions, and making similar claims about the potential and applications as Rossi.

NASA from the youtube: "It has the DEMONSTRATED ability to produce excess amounts of energy, cleanly, without hazardous ionizing radiation."

You can't have it both ways. NASA can't be making independent claims validating Rossi's approach if Rossi was a complete fraud. NASA is now confirming that there is something there.

NASA would not be putting their reputations on the line if they were not confident they could produce a device like Rossi's

20 posted on 01/13/2012 5:47:56 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: Explorer89
Check out the youtube direct from NASA.
21 posted on 01/13/2012 5:49:30 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: Moltke
NASA says it adds neutrons while Rossi adds hydrogen, that is protons.

Which is exactly what Rossi's device does. See Widom/Larson theory. The middle step is forcing an electron capture, turning the hydrogen proton into a low-energy neutron.

22 posted on 01/13/2012 5:53:10 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: Explorer89
...when it says that Langley Research Center is outside of Washington. I guess a six hour drive to Hampton Roads/Norfolk counts as outside of Washington.

"Langley Research Center (LaRC) is located approximately 150 air miles south of Washington, D.C. in Hampton, Virginia" Source: http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Langley_Research_Center#Location_and_Land_Area

Uh...175 miles or so is a 6 hour drive for you?? You must be driving a Volt, pal!

23 posted on 01/13/2012 6:35:09 AM PST by citizen (Conservatives, we must choose: Do you want to beat Romney more than Obama? IMHO, we can't do both.)
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To: PapaBear3625
NASA can't be making independent claims validating Rossi's approach if Rossi was a complete fraud.

Maybe Rossi is just a 99.9% fraud.

NASA is now confirming that there is something there.

How so? Is it just words from one of their nutbag employees or can they back it up?

24 posted on 01/13/2012 7:04:26 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: PapaBear3625
Widom-Larsen theory isn't all that great.

Critiques.

25 posted on 01/13/2012 7:13:11 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Kevmo
How do they create an element that is the same mass as the original one but is a different element by adding neutrons; is that possible? I saw this video yesterday. He is giving a list of benefits and uses of LENR research but he doesn't drill down to anything promising except for mentioning that NASA is working on something that when you add neutrons, the element changes to another element but weighs the same like in my first sentence.

The best that can be said about it, is that NASA is doing LENR research.

I prefer NASA to spend money on this than Muslim outreach. Based on all the research I've done, I am convinced LENR OR CANR or both is real and it makes sense for someone in America to research it.

The problem with NASA is they always have to go hat in hand to get funds and the worse thing about NASA is that they report to the VP or at least, used to. I wouldn't trust Biden to fund this even if he understood its ramifications.

26 posted on 01/13/2012 8:55:21 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Johnny B.
NASA looked at Rossi's E-Cat. It didn't work on the two days they were there to observe it, and Rossi threw them out when they asked questions about how it worked.

That is NASA's story. Maybe there was a reason Rossi felt he needed to throw them out. Not stating as fact, but I do not trust the government nor government programs.

27 posted on 01/13/2012 7:08:48 PM PST by Bellflower
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To: Kevmo

Could you please use the keyword field when posting on LENR ?

I always do keyword searches on FR and expect to find LENR updates under “Energy” but you never use the keyword field.


28 posted on 01/13/2012 10:21:15 PM PST by Kellis91789 (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.)
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To: Lx
How do they create an element that is the same mass as the original one but is a different element by adding neutrons; is that possible?

Table Of Nuclides

The element doesn't change, only its' atomic mass. The number of protons determines what the element is. The number of neutrons determines how the element behaves. Some elements have many different isotopes (different numbers of neutrons), and can behave very differently. Some naturally occurring, some produced/manufactured by nuclear processes, some merely theoretical.

The best example if course is U-235, a very stable isotope of Uranium. Add a neutron and get U-236, a very unstable isotope of Uranium which has a very short half-life and decays (fissions) extremely quickly.
29 posted on 01/13/2012 10:53:32 PM PST by rottndog (This FReeper nuclear powered...)
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To: Bellflower
That is NASA's story. Maybe there was a reason Rossi felt he needed to throw them out. Not stating as fact, but I do not trust the government nor government programs.
The trouble is, in order to believe Rossi, you have to disbelieve a long list of people who by any objective standard are more trustworthy.
30 posted on 01/14/2012 1:51:22 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kellis91789

The keywords I use are

cmns; coldfusion; ecat; lenr;

There are only 4 keywords allowed when posting an article.


31 posted on 01/14/2012 3:19:30 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Moltke

That is NASA’s way of distancing themselves from Rossi.

They’re going in hard for the Widom-Larson Theory, which seems to be derived from the need for political correctness more than explaining observations. By invoking the weak nuclear force, the theory claims that what is not taking place is cold fusion, even though you start with 2 atoms and you end up with 1 fused atom (at relatively cold temperatures). It’s roundabout cold fusion.


32 posted on 01/14/2012 3:25:12 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Bellflower

NASA saw Rossi’s device and claimed that it didn’t run long enough to rule out non-nuclear sources. The problem is that their requirements for how long it runs in self-sustain mode are completely arbitrary. Basically, no chemical reaction can run in that mode for more than a few minutes, and Rossi’s runs for 6 hours. NASA chose 8 hours as the cutoff point.


33 posted on 01/14/2012 3:28:25 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kellis91789

Oh, and also... you could just join a ping list like mine.


34 posted on 01/14/2012 3:52:40 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
Basically, no chemical reaction can run in that mode for more than a few minutes,
That is the most ridiculous thing you've ever said on the subject, and you've said plenty of ridiculous things.

Your statement that "no chemical reaction can run in that mode for more than a few minutes" is not only wrong, it's ridiculous. His later gadget has a hidden volume of 30 liters, and he spent hours pumping heat into the gadget prior to the "start" of the dog & pony show. It would be trivial to fake his results under those conditions.

Also, since it's supposed to be a nuclear reactor, he ought to be able to run it for months at a time. For his October 6th test, he promised that he would let it run at least 12 hours. But then, after only 4 hours, he shut it down.

There is no actual evidence that the E-Cat can run more than 4 hours, in spite of all of Rossi's extravagant claims.

35 posted on 01/14/2012 5:55:12 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
"Not as interesting as the fact the Rossi's gadget won't work when qualified outside observers are there to examine it."

My, you have a selective memory, don't you. There have been DOZENS of "qualified outside observers" examining the E-cat, yet you choose to believe only those who pan Rossi.

Of course, this is no different from the rest of your factoids.

"Not as interesting as Rossi becoming "enraged" when they dared to ask meaningful questions about his gadget."

"Meaningful questions" as in seeking information on things that are trade secrets, perhaps. Indicating that the viewers were actually competitors rather than customers. I think I'd get PO'd at that, too.

36 posted on 01/14/2012 6:05:08 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: rottndog

Right at the beginning of the video he says, “You keep adding neutrons until you end to the point where they spontaneously decay and then you end up with something of the same mass but a different element”. As far as I know, it’s the number of Protons that determine the element so how is that possible?


37 posted on 01/14/2012 7:15:53 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Johnny B.

His later gadget has a hidden volume of 30 liters, ***That’s baloney.

and he spent hours pumping heat into the gadget prior to the “start” of the dog & pony show.
***If he did that each time, it would be evidence of the fraud, so post the evidence.

It would be trivial to fake his results under those conditions.
***It probably would be trivial. Unfortunately, those are not the conditions he has operated under.


38 posted on 01/14/2012 8:00:40 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Johnny B.
The guys on Vortex-L discuss this fact that self-sustain mode only needs a few minutes to surpass chemical capability at times. Here's an example. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51317.html Re: [Vo]:The September E-Cat Jed Rothwell Thu, 15 Sep 2011 07:51:45 -0700 Horace Heffner wrote: > More importantly, the claim that all the water was being converted to > steam, the repeated, defended, and heralded basis for thinking something > practical has been created, the basis for the "calorimetry" of the public > demos, is now shown to be without basis in fact. The hose was taken off. > Water pulsed out of the outlet right at the exit of the E-cat in large > quantity. It obviously did not condense there. That is true. However, in the Krivit test and other previous tests, the flow rate was lower, so I do not think you can compare them. Also if they had put a probe into this stream of steam and water and withdrawn it, it would have come out wet, whereas in previous tests it was dry. In general I agree that a non-steady state mixture of water and steam is difficult to measure. I wish that Lewan had sparged the steam and water. Before this test, I sent messages to Lewan, Rossi and others urging them to do this, but they did not. They had a perfect opportunity to do this, with that large plastic trashcan. It will easily hold enough water to condense all of the steam. By the way, flow rate was almost exactly 3 g per second. Input power will be enough to vaporize 0.7 g assuming no heat radiated from the device. That is extremely unrealistic. So the fact that about half the water was vaporized does indicate there was excess heat. More to the point, during the 35 min. heat after death event, the temperature did not decline much. This is proof that there was anomalous heat. Stored heat can only produce a temperature that declines rapidly at first and then gradually. After the power went off the temperature did not decline rapidly. Therefore the input power of 2.5 kW was only a fraction of the total power. If the total power was around 5 kW where 2.5 kW was half, the temperature would've fallen a lot faster and sooner. Lewan estimates the water volume of the cell at 22 to 30 L. If there had been no anomalous heat the temperature would have fallen sharply within minutes. You can boil a pot of 22 L of hot water and observe this easily. Turn off the heat, and it stops boiling instantly. It starts to cool a few degrees in minutes. The temperature never rises and never stabilizes, unless you change the insulation (or the flow rate, in this case). In this case the temperature will certainly fall quickly because during the 35 min. 6 kg of cold water was added to the cell. The heat capacity of this water far exceeds the total heat capacity of all the metal in the cell. > Now the new E-cat never reaches equilibrium. This is a far more difficult > regime in which to do accurate calorimetry, and a far better regime for self > deception. That is true, but there is no doubt it was boiling for 35 minutes with no input power. Anyone who ignores this fact is engaged in the worst kind of self-deception imaginable. > Further, the E-cat mass has been greatly increased, and the max input > power increased. The "heat after death" from mundane causes will now > obviously be much longer. This cannot sustain boiling for more than a few seconds, at this flow rate. Metal cannot store much heat, and this cell was producing excess heat the whole time, so there was no possible storage at all. With 2.5 kW input only, it would have transitioned from boiling about one third of the water to boiling none of it, and that would have taken a few seconds at most. - Jed
39 posted on 01/14/2012 8:23:59 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Johnny B.

Another example. There are probably several more.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg51346.html

Re: [Vo]:The September E-Cat
Jed Rothwell
Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:00:03 -0700

Horace Heffner wrote:

As I showed numerically, it was not reasonable that no water was ejected in the prior demonstration tests unless the tests were run at precisely the right input power (from electric plus LENR) at all times to just boil all the water yet not raise the steam temperature. Not likely!

Quite likely. Any cook knows how to keep a pot from boiling over.

This would have been far superior to doing nothing. Better to insulate the barrel.

That is not necessary. Just use a lot of water and keep the test limited to around 5 min. As long as the overall water temperature does not go much above ambient you don’t have to worry about heat losses.

Of course the thermal mass could possibly be mostly lead (at 0.14 kJ/(kg K)), but on the other hand it could be mostly Mg ((at 1.05 kJ/(kg K)). We don’t really know. Even if it is mostly lead, and driven to 200°C, it will still hold more than required to bring the 6 kg to boiling. Since the amount of steam was not actually measured not much more energy has to be supplied to provide some steam.

At least half of it was boiled. Lewan tells me the the boiling did not decrease noticeably during the heat-after-death event. Furthermore, the entire experimental run before that heat-after-death event was highly exothermic. There was no time during the run when heat might have been stored up. On the contrary the machine should have cooled down several hundred degrees. It should have been covered with frost, like a canister of butane firing a grill. (Boyle’s law is readily apparent in Atlanta outdoor grilling weather.) The heat came out as quickly as it went in. With 2.5 kW going in it would have been barely boiling, less than 0.7 g out of 3 g for the overall run. After the power went off, the metal would have quickly cooled down to stop all boiling.

I doubt it would have boiled at all with only 2.5 kW. Even with insulation the box, the pipes and other components would have radiated so much heat, only hot water would have come out. Anyway the major heat loss path was from the fluid, not through the insulation.

- Jed


40 posted on 01/14/2012 8:28:43 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Wonder Warthog; Johnny B.

Stealing once again from Jed Rothwell

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg58130.html

See p. 32. As you see this is Run II. There were several others. McKubre
remarked that he knows a highly qualified person who was present. I know
several, and I know of other independent tests. Some of them failed, like
the NASA test. Others succeeded.

As I have pointed out here before, if this machine was fake he would make
it appear to work every time, on demand, especially when he has important
visitors such as NASA. If he wanted to give it versimillitude perhaps he
would have it fail when unimportant people come, or he would have it fail
at first and then the next day start to work. That is not what has
happened. In some cases it has gone for days without saying boo. That is
characteristic of genuine cutting-edge prototype new technology, such as
the early incandescent lights, internal combustion engines, transistors,
and rockets.

- Jed


41 posted on 01/14/2012 8:38:11 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
Sorry your skills don't include making a block of text readable.

Rothwell has consistently refused to consider the reasonable "models" for Rossi's E-Cat, and only chosen to try to know down his straw-man versions.

In this example, he refuses to even consider that there might be something inside the "secret" 30-litre, 80KB box that Rossi won't let anyone examine. His argument that a pot of water stops boiling as soon as you turn off the heat ignores the fact that a pot of water with a large iron block, heated to 500C, will continue to boil for a long time after the heat is turned off.

He also likes to use the analogy of dumping a heated iron block in a barrel of water to show that it would cool down quickly. That's his straw-man version. In Rossi's actual demos, there is a very small trickle of water being fed into the E-Cat, nothing at all like a "barrelfull"

Rothwell has devoted his life to proving that cold fusion is real, so it's no wonder that he's arguing so hard for it. Without it, his life's work is a waste.

But his arguments don't stand up to scrutiny, as many of the other Vortex posters have amply demonstrated.

42 posted on 01/14/2012 8:44:02 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

But his arguments don’t stand up to scrutiny, as many of the other Vortex posters have amply demonstrated.
***Then amply demonstrate it. Go on over to Vortex and tear down his arguments. You would be the first to accomplish it.


43 posted on 01/14/2012 8:46:42 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
***Then amply demonstrate it. Go on over to Vortex and tear down his arguments. You would be the first to accomplish it.
Nonsense! Several Vortex posters have done a perfectly adequate job of shooting down Rothwell's strawman arguments.

In particular, Joshua Cude was very patient about explaining why Rothwell's arugments were so badly flawed.

44 posted on 01/14/2012 8:56:18 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

Joshua Cude is just a pasquinade.

Thanks for showing your true colors. You’re anti-LENR, not necessarily just anti-Rossi.

Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself


45 posted on 01/14/2012 9:00:21 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
Joshua Cude is just a pasquinade.

Thanks for showing your true colors. You’re anti-LENR, not necessarily just anti-Rossi.

Why am I not surprised that you would resort to name calling rather than rational debate. I have no idea of Joshua Cude's opinions on LENR, but his arguments about Rossi's gadget are sound. Feel free to provide counter arguments if you can. But resorting to name calling just demonstrates that you can't make a reasoned argument.

By the way, the only thing I'm "anti" is fraud. The moment Rossi actually demonstrates that he is anything other than a fraud, I'll be happy to acknowledge it.

But he hasn't even come close to demonstrating such a thing so far.

46 posted on 01/14/2012 9:08:52 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
By the way, I see that Rossi has blown off Dick Smith's offer of $200,000 to charity if Rossi would allow his engineer to test an E-Cat. LINK

Yet another example for Rossi avoiding any opportunity to prove his device actually works.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to name an actual customer.

47 posted on 01/14/2012 9:13:04 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

I read the stuff on Vortex-L all the time.

There’s a reason why the first 3 hits on a search for ‘joshua cude’ on Vortex indicates threads started just to point out how dishonest he is.

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

Re: [Vo]:Joshua Cude does not believe in the scientific method

Re: [Vo]:Joshua Cude at it

He’s an obvious troll, and your backing him is a sign that you can’t generate or identify well-reasoned arguments.


48 posted on 01/14/2012 9:15:34 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Johnny B.

If Rossi had not sold his 1MW unit, for ~$2M and the whole thing was a facade, he would need cash and would jump at the chance for some cash.

By the way, I’m still waiting for you to name an actual customer.
***All of us know that Rossi claims the customer is choosing to remain anonymous. By constantly pulling this requirement out of your hat, it shows that you aren’t here to discuss, you’re here to harrass.

I think I’m about done with you on this thread, and if you continue to harrass I’ll be putting you on my permanent ‘ignore’ list.


49 posted on 01/14/2012 9:20:33 AM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Moltke
No, it sounds NOTHING like Rossi's device. NASA says it adds neutrons while Rossi adds hydrogen, that is protons. Neutrons don't have the Coulomb barrier to deal with. You just need a neutron source (and therein lies the rub)...

Neutron sources are easy. One I saw was a typical vacuum tube but it's cathode was coated with, I believe, deuterium, and once heated up, spewed neutrons. I believe they had the same type neutron source for both of the bombs dropped on Japan.

50 posted on 01/14/2012 10:28:17 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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