(vanity)Any news on the incident report for the helo crash that killed the SEALS? ( and why not?)

one man's opinion...

[ken5050]

I've been doing a search every few days, and haven't seen anything. It's important because according to the reports we do have, much of the wreckage was recovered. The initial reports suggested that the copter was brought down by an RPG fired by the Taliban, and then, a few days later, we identified, and successfully targeted and killed those Taliban responsible. The accident investigation report is very important. I am no expert, but I do know that it is fairly easy to determine from the wreckage if the explosion occured OUTSIDE the aircraft, or INSIDE the helicopter.

[ken5050]

Given that there were 7 Afghanistan Special Forces troops on board, this is vital. An explosion INSIDE the copter would suggest that it was brought down by a terrorist act...one of the Afghanis had an explosive device.

This has happened before. A few months pror, 7 CIA agents were killed when a suicide bomber..one of their "trusted" Afghani troops..blew himself up inside their compound.

Also, recall that most of the SEALS that were lost were membersd of the same SEAL team that killed Osama bin Ladin. Given that the Obama administration had divulged far too much OPERATIONAL information about the raid, it made it far easier for the Taliban to thus target these SEALS.

Just want to know why we haven't heard anything about this, and if any Freepers have any info?

[ken5050]

List ping, if you please...

[Roccus]

Just want to know why we haven't heard anything about this...

[Roccus]

Just want to know why we haven't heard anything about this...

Dead men tell no tales.

(don't know what happened to my #3)

[TexMom7]

I did the best search I know how (and I am pretty good at it) and could not find any results of the investigation yet.

[Dr. Ursus]

I believe the CIA agents were killed by a Jordanian doctor,who was a double agent? He wasn’t searched to show
that they trusted him.

[ken5050]

Thanks..most anyone I know is better at net searching than I...(G)

It's surprising..in so many ways...as I wrote..we have the wreckage..and it's easy to tell if the explosion was inside or outside..by comaprison..look at TWA 800..months later, from miniscule pieces from the bottom of the ocean, they could prove that it was the center fuel tank that exploded, and even what caused it...

I'm not a Tin-foil hat kinda guy..but we shoudl ahve had some preliminary report by now. Any thoguhts what to do next?

[famousdayandyear]

I have no information; when I first read the news, I immediately assumed they were set up and taken out by the afghan aboard. I don’t expect we will hear any more about the explosion—if there is a report, it will not be believable. JMHO

[ken5050]

And I can't believe that what you suggest could come to pass. That would be such a monstrous cover-up..and the SPECOPS command would have to be on board with it..you couldn't contain it...

I hope I'm wrong..I hope it was a lucky RPG from a Taliban..but then you'd think they'd rush to get the news out..I'm really flummoxed on this..

If it was a suicide Taliban..99% of Americans would demand an immediate pull out..all I can think is that the know what happened, but they're sitting on it until they figure out the exit strategy..if the Taliban knoiws that we're gonna quit..then our troops still in country would be at greater risk...

and I still don't buy that somehow, we magically managed to find the guys and kill them..

[Francis McClobber]

The preliminary report is the helicopter got shot down by an RPG.

Mishap investigations in the military usually take a while and they do not publish findings, if at all, until the investigation is complete and has been vetted.

[ken5050]

I understand, and concur, with your comments. Please see my #9..I think we crossed..

My point..and again, I have NO expertise whatsoever..is that is should be fairly easy to tell..and release a preliminary finding...

[agere_contra]

look at TWA 800..months later, from miniscule pieces from the bottom of the ocean, they could prove that it was the center fuel tank that exploded, and even what caused it...

Oh yes. The center fuel tank. That was it.

[massgopguy]

There’s no time for stoties like this on the evening news. Don’t you know there’s a dog that says “I love you”?

[famousdayandyear]

There have been many incidents of afghan betrayals I have read about—there are probably lots more that don’t get reported. I also hate the possibility of a coverup. But the reality is what it is. As Rush says, “I live in Literalville.”

[ExpatGator]

An RPG would also most probably blow up inside the helo, as it is designed to do so. However, materials left behind from the explosion would be easily identified as either an IED or an RPG.

[ken5050]

Are you suggesting that the RPG would penetrate the helo, then explode, as opposed to detonating outside the craft..I guess that could also be a scenario..

[PilotDave]

When accident reports get political they get very suspicious. For example, the F-15E that went down in Libya. Mechanical? Low level in a war zone? Yeah sure.

[mbynack]

RPGs are designed to penetrate before exploding, so an explosion inside the chopper wouldn’t indicate anything. It’s also likely that the chopper was completely destroyed after the bodies were recovered to prevent the enemy from discovering some of the technology.

[ken5050]

Thanks...I get that..howver, it would seem that there could be an equal chance of an explosion outside as inside...which would be readily determined by seeing which way the metal deformed..

[mbynack]

Thanks...I get that..howver, it would seem that there could be an equal chance of an explosion outside as inside...which would be readily determined by seeing which way the metal deformed..

It still wouldn't prove anything if you knew. An RPG has two fuses - one is a timer and the other is an impact fuse. It will detonate after striking a solid object or when the timer fuse runs out. It might detonate near the Helo if the timer ran out or it could detonate after it penetrates the hull if it's triggered by the impact fuse.

The crash took place on top of an enemy-held mountain, so there won't be an extensive forensic exam of the wreckage. They'll probably go by the information the flight crew provided by radio before the crash and the black boxes.

[ken5050]

Many thanks for the info, and the perspective.....if you happen to come across anything..kindly ping me

[mbynack]

No problem, Ken. The thing to remember is that we probably won't get any information released from the government. Any after-actions reports would discuss enemy tactics that were effective and friendly tactics that failed and what they can do to fix it. That's the kind of information that they don't want circulating where the enemy might find them.

I saw some of these reports from Desert Storm when I was on active duty and they were all classified as Secret. Most won't be made public during my lifetime.

[magslinger]

SONOBUOY PING!

Click on pic for past Navair pings.

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation.
This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

[ExpatGator]

Well, technically they do explode externally, however the explosion is a shaped charge that shoots a molten metal slug into the craft that does the damage. Lots of damage.
If some terr was aboard with an IED, would he not detonate it at flight altitude to ensure no chance of auto-rotating/crash landing?
I am not stating that I know what happened. However, I am applying Occam’s Razor based on some basic knowledge of the subjects.

[Rappini]

I hope you don’t believe that it was the fuel tanks that took down TWA 800.

[mad_as_he$$]

OK let's put this to bed now. I am close to many SpecOps guys. I did business with the community for years and have family members that were/are in SpecOps. Yes Devgru was point on the OBL mission. Understand that that unit has approximately 120-150 members. The 20 or so that were killed in the helo crash did not participate in the OBL mission (I have this on the word of people I trust). In fact the ones that took out OBL are most likely still stateside and will most likely never go back to Afcrapistan.

As far as the Chinook crash there is no good way to have known that SEALs would be the rapid response team to the Rangers getting into some serious $hit. It could have been any of three SpecOps units - even more Rangers.

The bigger question is if the Guard pilots were utilizing the latest and best extraction techniques as determined by the Army based upon the mission(s) of the 160th.

As we used to say in VN - Charlie got lucky today.

[ken5050]

Thanks for the input. If it is, as you say..just the way the wind blew..I can happily accept that. The only reason I’d raised the point is that I expected that we’d have heard some preliminary finding by now...and the mere fact that there was NOTHING to me was somewhat starnge..suspicious....Again..thanks