Posted on 12/02/2008 3:35:56 PM PST by Polarik
From the US National Archives and Records Administration website explaining the State laws on how Electors may vote:
The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Although some State laws provide that so-called "faithless electors" may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector, the Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution, and no elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged.
There are 48 States that have a winner-takes-all rule for the Electoral College. In these States, whichever candidate receives a majority of the vote, or a plurality of the popular vote (less than 50 percent but more than any other candidate) takes all of the State's electoral votes. In Virginia, one of the "winner-takes-all" states, their State Statute does not enforce its pledges to cast their votes but only is advisory in saying that its electors "Shall be expected" to vote, meaning that Virginia Electors can conscientiously not vote for the winner in their state. Only two States, Nebraska and Maine, do not follow the winner-takes-all rule. In those States, there could be a split of electoral votes among candidates through the State's system for proportional allocation of votes. For example, Maine has four electoral votes and two Congressional districts. It awards one electoral vote per Congressional district and two by the state-wide, "at-large" vote. Here are the current and relevant Laws that will apply to the Electoral College when they meet on December 15: Source: Congressional Research Service
ELECTORS NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED TO VOTE FOR OBAMA
ARIZONA
10
Electoral
Votes
ARKANSAS
6
Electoral
Votes
DELAWARE
3
Electoral
Votes
GEORGIA
15
Electoral
Votes
IDAHO
4
Electoral
Votes
ILLINOIS
21
Electoral
Votes
INDIANA
11
Electoral
Votes
IOWA
7
Electoral
Votes
KANSAS
6
Electoral
Votes
KENTUCKY
8
Electoral
Votes
LOUISIANA
9
Electoral
Votes
MINNESOTA
10
Electoral
Votes
MISSOURI
11
Electoral
Votes
NEW HAMPSHIRE
4
Electoral
Votes
NEW JERSEY
15
Electoral
Votes
NEW YORK
31
Electoral
Votes
NORTH DAKOTA
3
Electoral
Votes
PENNSYLVANIA
21
Electoral
Votes
RHODE ISLAND
4
Electoral
Votes
SOUTH DAKOTA
3
Electoral
Votes
TENNESSEE
11
Electoral
Votes
TEXAS
34
Electoral
Votes
UTAH
5
Electoral
Votes
WEST VIRGINIA
5
Electoral
Votes
TOTAL
257
Electoral
Votes
ELECTORS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO VOTE FOR OBAMA
ALABAMA
9
Electoral
Votes
ALASKA
3
Electoral
Votes
CALIFORNIA
55
Electoral
Votes
COLORADO
9
Electoral
Votes
CONNECTICUT
7
Electoral
Votes
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
3
Electoral
Votes
FLORIDA
27
Electoral
Votes
HAWAII
4
Electoral
Votes
MAINE
4
Electoral
Votes
MARYLAND
10
Electoral
Votes
MASSACHUSETTS
12
Electoral
Votes
MICHIGAN
17
Electoral
Votes
MISSISSIPPI
6
Electoral
Votes
MONTANA
3
Electoral
Votes
NEBRASKA
5
Electoral
Votes
NEVADA
5
Electoral
Votes
NEW MEXICO
5
Electoral
Votes
NORTH CAROLINA
15
Electoral
Votes
OHIO
20
Electoral
Votes
OKLAHOMA
7
Electoral
Votes
OREGON
7
Electoral
Votes
SOUTH CAROLINA
8
Electoral
Votes
VERMONT
3
Electoral
Votes
VIRGINIA*
13
Electoral
Votes
WASHINGTON
11
Electoral
Votes
WISCONSIN
10
Electoral
Votes
WYOMING
3
Electoral
Votes
TOTAL
281
Electoral
Votes
As remote as it seems, if the Electors who are not legally bound to vote for Obama in these four states, New York New Jersey, Illinois, and Pensylvania, along with one of these three states, Indiana, Minnesota, or Iowa, or with both of these states, Delaware and New Hampshire, change their vote to McCain, then McCain becomes POTUS.
If 97 out of the 127 Electors who are not legally bound to vote for Obama, change their vote to McCain, then McCain becomes POTUS.
If 96 out of all the 365 Electors decide NOT to vote for Obama, whether Obama is ruled ineligible, or they have an epiphany, have an attack of conscience, or hedge their bets that no Elector has ever been punished for changing their vote, change their vote to McCain, then McCain becomes POTUS.
It is not impossible!
should that be legally not elgally?
This is the same stuff we were talking about regarding Bush vs Gore. Some were afraid electors would vote for Gore even though they were “bound” to vote for Bush.
Not a one of them broke ranks.
Get real.
Yes, like ileligible.
This is "Al Gore 2000" stuff.
Except that Gore was Consitutionally qualified
That's what happens when you spend two hours talking to Lamphere
Indeed.
He’s not even the President[Elect].
If we can build a groundswell, some electors might actually consider not voting or voting for someone else.
Challenge them with the thought that if Obama isn't legal, everything he signs will not be valid. He has a good chance of being impeached. He embarasses the Democrat party. What is he hiding?
It will be amazing to see this in play when Obama is found ineligible to hold office by the Supreme Court. I have stated that I believe this is Hillary’s thermo-nuclear gambit, that she is counting on the electoral college to select her when Change Boy is stripped of his hypnotic super-powers by virtue of being an Indonesian Kenyan (or vice versa, who cares) fraud.
BUT—THAT WOULD BE ILELGAL!
Since these electors were ones supporting the candidate why in the world would they jump ship and not vote for him?... Wishful thinking won’t change reality.
This would be the time for the electors to tell Obama simply that they cannot cast their votes for him unless he fully identifies himself to their satisfaction.
But that would require character and a sense of justice of the electors, and that may be asking too much of them.
I think this elector system is a nice little legal fiction in this date and age. I wish it weren’t so, but despite the statements to the contrary on this forum, none of us voted for electors on the ballot. We don’t even know or care who they are.
The response that quickly came to mind as I read this was a cartoon I saw many years ago called “The Last Great Act of Defiance”. It was a huge hawk swooping down with claws outstretched toward a little mouse facing it and giving the hawk the finger.
Any elector who would dare dis “that one” would be facing a fate worse than the mouse.
“..I believe this is Hillary’s thermo-nuclear gambit..”
I’ll take Hillary over Obama. At least I know that she is no foreigner and is no muslim. And perhaps, deep inside of her there is a latent feeling of love for this country — something I don’t find in Obama’s behavior.
This is quite clever (if I read my Hillaries correctly). She could not beat Obama mano-a-mano with Democrats, and she could not beat McCain, and McCain couldn't beat Obama. So, through deductive intrigue, she's back to McCain vs. her after the press has demolished McCain.
Electors are almost always committed party activists and office holders or big supporters of the candidate. If they weren’t considered reliable, they wouldn’t have been put on the slate.
I doubt few if any will renege on their pledges to vote for Obama.
This is what they said before the Democratic convention, too, and Obama got way MORE electors than he was supposed to. Even states Hillary had solidly won were block-voting for Obama, which made her “magnanimous” decision to urge all the remaining states to vote for Obama seem more like a CYA.
I imagine the same will happen again.
One note: Hillary only needs to have one Elector in the country switch over for her: as long as she makes the “top 3” list, the House can consider her along with McCain if there is a dis-qualification before the joint session in January.
My bet is that the DNC winks and allows one or two “protest” votes for Hillary to make sure they still have a horse in the race against McCain (and by corollary, if she does get 1 or 2 votes on 15 Dec., you can be sure there is a real problem).
If a disqualification happens after the joint session, Biden gets promoted to President-Elect, so the DNC only needs Hillary on the top 3 list if there is a blow-up before or during the joint session.
I know it seems impossible, but it's just a possible scenario if the Court rules him ineligible -- which is also unlikely.
I mainly posted this because last night, Lan Lamphere insisted that ALL Electors were legally bound to vote for whomever won their state.
This post is all wrong. There are legally required to vote Obama in States that are McCain States (Alaska). You also have States not required to vote Obama, that should read not required to vote McCain (Idaho).
Doesn't matter, they are real people, and they cast real votes, which really decide who becomes President and Vice President.
Besides, in some states their names are on the ballot. I'm pretty sure it was that way in the first few Presidential elections I voted in, back in the dark ages, when we used quill pens to circle the names of those we were voting for, or written in names as required.
Actually my first Presidential election, in '72, I used the old mechanical "lever and counter" machine. In '76 it was the paper ballot, circle the names deal. I've also used a punch card, with out the punching device, although they did thoughtfully include a paper clip for that purpose with my military absentee ballot. I've used two different sorts of mark-sense/color the circle type ballots, including this year. I've also used electronic voting machines in '00 and '04.
In many cases they are supporters of the Party, not necessarily any particular candidate of that party. In California they are obliged by law to vote for the candidate of the party, rather than the individual.
question? Once it is proven that Obama is ineligible....would it make sense to assume that all his decisions, choices, etc. would be null and void due to fraud. Including his VP pic? Would this not make Biden ineligible for VP?
And it "doesn't matter", because these real people vote the way we expect them too, and then collect their money! Robots would be less costly. A BASIC computer program could do the job as well. I volunteer to write it. Today, it is silly fiction (which isn't the same as supporting the kooky idea of popular vote elections for POTUS.) It isn't even as exciting as deciding whether to carry an umbrella when a TV weatherman predicts a 75% chance of rain.
Biden is not one of the choices an Elector can choose
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