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Kosovo: Lost to Serbia and to the West
Brussels Journal ^ | 10/27/08 | John Laughland

Posted on 10/27/2008 7:01:01 PM PDT by Bokababe

....If organised crime is a way of life in Kosovo, so is the systematic destruction of churches: more than 150 churches and monasteries have been blown up on the UN’s watch in the last nine years, as Albanians seek not only to expel all Serbs from the province but also to eradicate any physical record of their ever having been their in the first place. Kosovo, one should never forget, is the original heartland of medieval Serbia, the Serbs having migrated North to Belgrade and the Pannonian plane beyond as a result of the Turkish invasions. Images of an angry mob pulling down crosses and stamping on them, such as were filmed on 17 March 2004, have not been seen since the early years of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia; just under a century later they are now, once again, part of Europe’s present....

(Excerpt) Read more at brusselsjournal.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: albanians; kosovo; nato; serbia
Great job of destruction, started by Clinton and completed by Bush!
1 posted on 10/27/2008 7:01:02 PM PDT by Bokababe
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

2 posted on 10/27/2008 7:02:34 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
It's long overdue for the US to lead NATO out of Serbia, Kosovo and Bosnia.

There's really nothing there that crosses paths with any of our interests.

3 posted on 10/27/2008 7:03:36 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Bokababe

Kosovo was probably the single worst thing Clinton did while he was in office.

And then Bush signed on. I will never understand that.


4 posted on 10/27/2008 7:06:48 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

The Clinton war against Kosovo did America far more lasting harm than any other war it ever fought. That may sound exaggerated but there was an opportunity for a new harmonious relationship with Russia and it was sabotaged. Kosovo was not only part of Serbia for 600 years, it is the emotional cradle of the nation, their Alamo occurred there. Russia was their protector but Yeltsin let them down. The war would have been okay, but not to strip Kosovo away from Serbia. Bush came along and compounded the error by recognizing the country. As a result Russia feels it now has carte blanche to do it what it likes to protect its minorities in former Soviet states. When Sarkosy wanted to resolve Georgia with Medvedev, Medvedev just kept repeating Kosovo, Kosovo, Kosovo.


5 posted on 10/27/2008 8:24:53 PM PDT by idov
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To: idov
"Bush came along and compounded the error by recognizing the country. As a result Russia feels it now has carte blanche to do it what it likes to protect its minorities in former Soviet states. When Sarkosy wanted to resolve Georgia with Medvedev, Medvedev just kept repeating Kosovo, Kosovo, Kosovo."

That's the thing about narcissism -- narcissists push and push until they find your "red line" -- and then they keep pushing beyond it to see if they can emotionally destroy you. They don't understand that once past your "red line", you become their enemy -- not because they hate you or want to destroy you -- but you have forced them, against their will, into a choice between survival and death.

How the hell did we ever get in this situation, not just with Russia, but with the rest of the world? This is not who we are! This is not who America is!!!

6 posted on 10/27/2008 10:15:03 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: All
This was actually a better quote from the article

".Ever since the United Nations took over Kosovo in 1999, indeed, the province’s endemic corruption has exploded, as I was able to confirm by talking to two American policemen who work for the international administration there. “Every level of society is corrupt,” one of them said. “Every single aspect of the society is criminal.” This is largely because the Kosovo Liberation Army, the US-backed Contra-style guerrilla force which runs the province and which controls the government, the army and the police, is also notorious for its role as a powerful organization running drugs, guns and sex slaves to Western Europe"...

7 posted on 10/27/2008 10:32:01 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
This is the new world order. No justice. This is all collaeral damage and part of the package for building an empire.

Laws only apply to the subjugated. No different under the Turks and Sharia law.

8 posted on 10/28/2008 5:13:19 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: Bokababe; SQUID; FormerLib; Kolokotronis; eleni121; The_Reader_David

Some of the older churches destroyed by the criminal savages in Kosovo had both Western and Byzantine architectual elements. They thus showed the unity of Eastern and Western Christianity, and specifically the unity of the West with Serbian Orthodox civilization.

It seems that the globalist powers that be do not want us to know about that unity. They especially do not want us to know that the West was once Orthodox!


9 posted on 10/28/2008 7:43:52 AM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: idov

We have friends who live in Georgia, a neighbor who comes from there, and my son spent several years there, learning Georgian.

When Putov says that NATO stripping away Kosovo from Serbia justifies his invasion of Georgia, the only reply that I can make is that two wrongs don’t make a right.

Very sad.

At least Putin is acting in his own self interest (or so he thinks), by expanding the new Russian Empire, frightening his neighbors into submission (he hopes) and seizing the oil pipeline to western Europe to give him further leverage over them. Whereas handing Kosovo over to Muslim terrorists was in EVERY WAY against our national interests.

The only thing I can guess that clinton got out of it was a share of the drug money from the Albanian smugglers, who doubled their imports into the EU. What Bush got out of it I simply can’t imagine. Europe and the U.S. were both losers, as well as Russia.


10 posted on 10/28/2008 9:56:53 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: muawiyah

There’s really nothing there that crosses paths with any of our interests.


Wrong. Dangerous opinion.

The Balkan Christian people are in the front lines of Ialamofascist agresssion and have been for hundreds of years.

But we have stood with our enemies there - the WRONG SIDE!


11 posted on 10/28/2008 10:17:58 AM PDT by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! +)
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To: eleni121

Look, the Serbs can take care of themselves. All we are doing is giving support to the Croats and their Islamofascist allies. Best we pull out.


12 posted on 10/28/2008 10:46:57 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Honorary Serb
In 1204 AD, Roman Catholic crusaders of the Fourth Crusade attacked and sacked Constantinople and the Mother Church Hagia Sophia (blt 360 AD). This left behind a legacy of bitterness among Eastern Christians which continues to this day. The Muslims have also left their lasting imprint on the Christian Church as a reminder of how temporary Christianity can become. This is the wish of many others as well. Not just Muslims.

This is sad. So much history is erased. So much of someone else's history that is. Other Christians don't see it as their problem.

Mankind is still to this day dealing with hatred, greed, jealousy and all of the vices that corrupt the human heart and soul. The nature of mankind is such that oneness can never happen. Someone always wants to take more because his soul is restless. Yet people fail to realize that the one who has given all for Christ is the wealthiest of all of them.

I just hope that Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox can together recognize that a threat to one is also a threat to the other. They have more in common than not. Pope Benedict XVI aurally sees what has happened in Bosnia and Kosovo. He sees how hungry Islam has gotten for Christian blood. He knows but stays measured in his response.

13 posted on 10/28/2008 11:21:45 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: muawiyah

Oh I get it...You are right. We should get the hell out.

And never go in again. We tend to support the bad guys every time.


14 posted on 10/28/2008 8:48:45 PM PDT by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! +)
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To: eleni121

In this case we had no business “going in”. It was a European problem to be resolved by Europeans ~ definitely below the horizon of things we need to be concerned with.


15 posted on 10/28/2008 8:51:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SQUID
"In 1204 AD, Roman Catholic crusaders of the Fourth Crusade attacked and sacked Constantinople and the Mother Church Hagia Sophia (blt 360 AD). This left behind a legacy of bitterness among Eastern Christians which continues to this day. The Muslims have also left their lasting imprint on the Christian Church as a reminder of how temporary Christianity can become.

Actually, Squid, 1204 was just the FIRST betrayal of the Christian East by the West, there have been many betrayals since then. And each time, Eastern Christians have naively gone into it with faith that their Western brothers will stand by them and each time, they have gotten sold out.

Today's Christians in Kosovo and the Christians in Iraq, are just two of the most recent examples of this kind of betrayal. The WWII genocide of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies are another one. The genocide and ethnic cleansing of Greeks from Asia Minor and from Cyprus, with the acceptance (enforcement) of Western Powers. One could go on and on.

Point is that this isn't just "an 800 year old grudge". Eastern Christians have been the traditional buffer between the West and Islam, and that was a role that they accepted as their fate. But what they could not and cannot accept is the idea that they are being used as nothing more than "pawns" and "bargaining chips" to the West, to be routinely sacrificed for Western economic interests while we in the West still proclaim we are "doing God's Work" -- the hypocrisy of that mindset is just too much to bear without bitterness.

16 posted on 10/29/2008 8:50:38 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: muawiyah
"It was a European problem to be resolved by Europeans ~ definitely below the horizon of things we need to be concerned with."

You know I have heard that repeated at least 100 times, and no one ever says, "We should have let the people of the Balkans settle it themselves, and outsiders (America and the rest of Europe) should have stayed out of it." Why does no one ever say that?

There was a reason that this region was called "The Bloody Balkans". Most people think that it is because those who live there are "exceptional violent", but I think it is because Western Powers are always trying to "manage them" and get frustrated when Balkaners don't follow their "plans" to the letter. They fight back.

I am of the mindset that says, if I claim the right to live free, then who am I to deny that right to others? If I claim the right to self-determination, then how can I deny it to others? If I claim the right to self-management, then how can I deny it to others? If they are willing to fight and die for those ideals, who am I to stop them?

The people of the Balkans are not children and if I don't want to live under the thumb of some "Big Brother" then why should I feel the right to foist that on someone else?

Left to their own devices, without the US and Europeans involved, I believe that the break-up of Yugoslavia would have been far less bloody and would have been settled by now, permanently (or as "permanent" as any political settlement ever is). But instead, we have created phony countries (Bosnia, Kosovo) that will fall apart and descend into war the second we loosen our iron grip on the area. We didn't "stop a war", we just set up the conditions for a coming war. No one will thank us. They will just hate our guts and blame us for it.

We screwed the pooch on this and will be living with the consequences of that for a long time. Our involvement in the Balkans was not only not in America's interests, it was specifically AGAINST America's interests.

17 posted on 10/29/2008 9:20:49 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
Bosnia or a reasonable facsimile thereof has been around since the Middle Ages.

I know in some quarters (the secret Bourbon councils I attend) that's not considered all that long, but realistically it doesn't cut it to say Bosnia is a "phony" country.

18 posted on 10/29/2008 11:03:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"Bosnia or a reasonable facsimile thereof has been around since the Middle Ages."

Yes, but as "a shared territory", never as a stand-alone country -- or at least as a stand-alone country that had Muslims in it.

Bosnia Hercegovina had always existed as a sort of DMZ between Serbia and Croatia, with members of both ethnicities, Serb & Croat, living there -- and the power shifting back and forth as political circumstances changed. When the Turks came, they empowered those Serbs, Croats (and Bogomils, a Christian sect) who converted to Islam, hence the Bosnian Muslims, now called "Bosniaks". When the Turks left they handed Bosnia over to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, as a territory, not as a country, which sowed the seeds of the events that led to WWI.

Today, most people don't realize that Muslims are still not a majority in Bosnia, they are a minority. Serbs and Croats, collectively, still outnumber Muslims but yet, the West still empowers Muslims to more power than their numbers warrant. And even the Croats, who are allies in "the Muslim-Croat Federation" portion of Bosnia want their own entity (not centralization) and are complaining that Croats have been ethnically cleansed from Sarajevo. (In fact virtually ALL non-Muslims, Serbs & Croats alike, have been driven from the capital.)

There is no "natural cohesiveness" to the peoples of Bosnia. What commonality and cohesiveness that did exist, died when Yugoslavia died.

Bosnia, as "a country" was created by and is being held together by "the international community" -- and even the internationals realize that the only ones who have a real life or death stake in Bosnia, as a country, are the Muslims. Bosnian Croats will always be politically and culturally pulled toward Croatia, and Bosnian Serbs will always be politically and culturally pulled toward Serbia. But the Bosnian Muslims have no where else to be or to go, so this is why the internationals are backing them -- to prop up their artificial creation.

19 posted on 10/29/2008 11:50:32 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
Only in Yugoslavia do they consider Croats and Serbians to be different ethnicities. For the rest of us they're simply members of different Christian churches (who happen to use different alphabets) ~ kind of like Southern Baptists and United Methodists ~ and there they even have different songbooks (but the Baptists get all the good songs making things kind of unfair eh).

Gotta' be more, much more, to make them different ethnicities.

My goodness, they even look alike!

The Bosniaks don't even make the grade ~ they eat pork! Most of 'em who've ever emigrated to the US end up as Methodist church members (which I've always found absolutely astounding).

20 posted on 10/29/2008 11:56:37 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
"Gotta' be more, much more, to make them different ethnicities. My goodness, they even look alike!"

The Serbs and Croats are pretty much of the same bloodlines, as many converted based on where they wound up living. There are many Serbs, Croats and Muslims with the same last name. My maiden name is a very common Croat last name, even though my ancestors were Serbs.

But Serbs and Croats have very different historical references so their narratives are different.

Most Croats were protected from Islam by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, of which Croatia was a part. In the 18th century, the Austrian Empress Maria Therese even brought Serbs into Croatia to guard the border, with the promises of free land and that Serbs could keep their religion and way of life, as long as they kept the Turks out of the Austrian Empire (which is how so many Serbs originally came to live in Croatia)

On the other hand, Serbs struggled under the Turkish yoke and were pretty much on their own against aggressive Islam. And as a result, Serbs got shoved all over the map of Yugoslavia, and beyond.

My own family originated in Hercegovina, but when the Turks started killing off all the Christian nobility (anyone who could lead), they made a quick exit down to Montenegro where they have been for the last 400 years.

The vast majority of Muslims in Bosnia in the 1990's were not militant Muslims, but Alija Izetbegovic and his political leadership (including Haris Siladzic who is still in power) were. The importation of mujahadin from the Middle East to Bosnia during and after the war, radicalized some of the Bosnian Muslim populace.

But most of the Bosnian Muslims who come here to the US (with some exceptions) are not crazy. They just want a new life here -- something "normal" and to fit in. I buy some Euro foods from a store owned by a Bosnian Muslim couple here in Sacramento and they are the just sweetest people.

21 posted on 10/29/2008 12:55:36 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
"My goodness, they even look alike!"

Just to let you know, we don't all "look alike". But it's more that we share groups of similar "types".

If no one had said that "Goran Visnjic (Luka Kovac on ER) is a Croat", I would have sworn that he was a Serb. But Goran Visnjic looks nothing like Karl Malden who is a Serb.

Many years ago, when the TV show "Magnum PI" first came on, I and every Serb I knew swore that Tom Selleck was a Serb. He had to be. He had that real specific look of one of the types and Selleck sounds like a name that could have been Americanized. But all the biographies on Tom Selleck described him as being of "Scottish and Irish descent" and we all looked at each other and said, "It can't be. I don't care if his daddy was the milkman, he's got to have Serb in him." Then, I never heard another word about it for the next twenty years. A couple of days ago, I ran across another bio on Tom Selleck -- yep, his father was Serbian!

22 posted on 10/29/2008 1:39:45 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe; SQUID; lightman

There were also the power plays by Frankish popes and their allies (notably Charlemagne and William the Conquerer) that led to the formation of a separate “Roman Catholic Church” in the first place, the suppression of the Orthodox West, and the split with the East in 1054. 1204 was the final exclamation point to that split.

The Lutheran Reformation (Reformation Day is Oct. 31) was an attempt to overcome the abuses of the Frankish popes, and arguably to move back toward Orthodoxy. The second generation of Lutheran reformers did try to make contact with the Patriarch of Constantinople. However, in the absence of contact with Orthodox communities, and with the Turk and the “Holy Roman Empire” in the way, that did not and could not go far enough.

The suppression of the Orthodox West led to the conflicts between the West and the Orthodox East.


23 posted on 10/29/2008 2:08:37 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: Bokababe

There are a lot of “war briefings” in the media now about the desperate situation that the next President faces in Afghanistan.

According to the briefings, the key to the resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda is the opium trade.

However, none of these briefings notes that the other end of the financial pipeline for the Afghan opium trade is “independent Kosovo”. Stop sales of drugs from Kosovo, and you dry up the funding for killers of Americans in Afghanistan.

Of course, NONE of the pundits who produce these briefings wants to face the facts that the Kosovo incursion is the mistake that we keep on paying for in the blood of our brave young soldiers!!!!


24 posted on 10/29/2008 2:17:15 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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