Posted on 08/12/2007 11:13:36 AM PDT by CutePuppy
Another View of Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest
USA Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.
August 11, 2007 URL:
http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/c_johnson/08112007.htm
Is the history of our great nation important to you?
Union Gen. William T. Sherman said of Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, "After all, I think Forrest as the most remarkable man our "Civil War" produced on either side." This came from a man who was once a foe of Forrest on the field of battle.
Why do some folks attack America's heritage?
Several years ago attempts were made to change the name of Forrest Park in Memphis, Tennessee. Now, there are people who try to change the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest High school in Jacksonville, Florida.
Was Gen. Forrest an early advocate for Civil Rights?
Forrest's speech during a meeting of the "Jubilee of Pole Bearers" is a story that needs to be told. Gen. Forrest was the first white man to be invited by this group which was a forerunner of today's Civil Right's group. A reporter of the Memphis Avalanche newspaper was sent to cover the event that included a Southern barbeque supper.
Miss Lou Lewis, daughter of a Pole Bearer member, was introduced to Forrest and she presented the former general a bouquet of flowers as a token of reconciliation, peace and good will. On July 5, 1875, Nathan Bedford Forrest delivered this speech:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the Southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. (Immense applause and laughter.)
"I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man, to depress none. (Applause.)
"I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office.
"I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment.
"Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."
Nathan Bedford Forrest again thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and then gave her a kiss on the cheek. Such a kiss was unheard of in the society of those days, in 1875, but it showed a token of respect and friendship between the general and the black community and did much to promote harmony among the citizens of Memphis.
Involve your family in study sessions to seek the truth about this nation's history and ask your local government officials not to change the name of streets and schools named for our American ancestors.
Calvin E. Johnson, Jr. is a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans and author of the book, "When America Stood for God, Family and Country."
...
The New Media Journal.us © 2007
Dixie Ping!
“Thought you might be interested in the subject” ping.
Apparently you need a history lesson.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest
"Forrest is also one of the war's most controversial figures. Although he was accused of war crimes at the Battle of Fort Pillow for having led Confederate soldiers in an alleged massacre of unarmed black Union troops, the accusation was later completely rejected by a 1871 United States Congressional investigation."
"After the war he was alleged to have participated in the founding of the Ku Klux Klan. Despite rumors that he was the first Grand Wizard of the Klan, the Congressional investigation of the Klan in 1871, which included several former Confederate generals, undertaken by Radical Republicans concluded that Forrest did not found the Klan, was not its leader, did not participate in its activities and worked to have it disbanded.
A goverment that fears arms in the hands of it people should also fear ROPE!
- Nathan Bedford Forrest about 1845
A timeless statement from a man that didn't mince words!
wikipedia isn’t the most reliable. Anyone can add or delete material there.
Most sites list him as one of the original organizers of the KKK and its grand wizard.
So, what about Nathan Bedford Forrest? One historian labeled him, “the clear, unfettered genius of the Civil War.” Others see him as a racist monster, responsible for the massacre of blacks at Fort Pillow on April 30, 1864. Never asking his soldiers to go where he wouldn’t himself, he had 29 horses shot out from under him. He entered the Confederate forces a private and left it a general. On the other hand, he helped start the organization known as the KKK and served as its head from 1867-1869.
http://www.blueshoenashville.com/history.html
Got any evidence to the contrary?
On August 28, 1868, in the Cincinnati Commercial, Lt General Forrest was interviewed to get his “…views in regard to the condition of your civil and political affairs in the State of Tennessee, and the South generally…” The following back and forth is between the reporter and Forrest. The reporter begins asking about the Klan.
“Why, General, we people up north have regarded the Ku-Klux as an organization which existed only in the frightened imagination of a few politicians”
“Well, sir, there is such an organization, not only in Tennessee, but all over the South, and its numbers have not been exaggerated.”
“What are its numbers, general?”
“In Tennessee there are over 40,000; in all the Southern states they number about 550,000 men.”
“What is the character of the organization; May I inquire?”
“Yes, sir. It is a protective political military organization. I am willing to show any man the constitution of the society. The members are sworn to recognize the government of the United States. It does not say anything at all about the government of Tennessee. Its objects originally were protection against Loyal Leagues and the Grand Army of the Republic; but after it became general it was found that political matters and interests could best be promoted within it, and it was then made a political organization, giving its support, of course, to the Democratic party.”
“Do you think, general, that the Ku-Klux have been of any benefit to the State?”
“No doubt of it. Since its organization, the leagues have quit killing and murdering our people. There were some foolish young men who put masks on their faces and rode over the country, frightening negroes, but orders have been issued to stop that, and it has ceased. You may say, further, that three members of the Ku-Klux have been court-martialed and shot for violations of the orders not to disturb or molest people.”
“Do you think, General, that the Ku-Klux have been of any benefit to the State?”
“No doubt of it. Since its organization, the leagues have quit killing and murdering our people. There were some foolish young men who put masks on their faces and rode over the country, frightening negroes, but orders have been issued to stop that, and it has ceased. You may say, further, that three members of the Ku-Klux have been court-martialed and shot for violations of the orders not to disturb or molest people.”
“Are you a member of the Ku-Klux, general?”
“I am not, but am in sympathy and will co-operate with them. I know that they are charged with many crimes that they are not guilty of. A case in point is the killing of Bierfield at Franklin, a few days ago. I sent a man up there especially to investigate the case, and report to me, and I have his letter here now, in which he states that they had nothing to do with it as an organization.”
“Then I suppose that there can be no doubt of a conflict if the militia interfere with the people; is that your view?”
“Yes, sir; if they attempt to carry out Governor Brownlow’s proclamation, by shooting down Ku-Klux - for he calls all Southern men Ku-Klux - if they go to hunting down and shooting these men, there will be war, and a bloodier one than we have ever witnessed. I have told these radicals here what they might expect in such an event. I have no power to burn or kill negroes. I intend to kill the radicals. I have told them this and more, there is not a radical leader in this town but is a marked man, and if a trouble should break out, none of them would be left alive. I have told them that they are trying to create a disturbance and then slip out and leave the consequences to fall upon the negroes, but they can’t do it. When the fight comes not one of them would get out of this town asaying it was “being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes, becoming injurious instead of subservient to the public peace”live. We don’t intend they shall ever get out of the country. But I want it distinctly understood that I am opposed to any war, and will only fight in self-defence.”
The Klan’s increasing reputation for violence led the more prominent citizens to drop out while criminals and the dispossessed began to fill the ranks. Local chapters proved difficult, if not impossible, to monitor and direct. In disgust in January 1869, Forrest officially disbanded the organization saying it was “being perverted from its original honorable and patriotic purposes, becoming injurious instead of subservient to the public peace” and the vast majority of local groups followed his lead. a small number of local units continued to operate but were eventually disbanded or sent into hiding by federal troops.
The reporter should have asked him if he had ever belonged to the kkk. One wonders how he could disband a group that he never belonged to. hmmmmm
NBF Dixie Ping
An interesting anecdote about the colorful general.
Regarding some of the comments, I don’t understand why we can’t accept that any historical figure (heck, any living person!) does some things that are good and some that are bad; that most people have both gifts and weaknesses, successes and failures.
there was NO massacre. period. end of story. further, the REVISIONISTS who tell that pack of LIES, know that they are lying.
frankly, that accusation was a KNOWING,PREMEDITATED pack of LIES, promulgated by a bunch of radical REVISIONIST,south-HATING, arrogant,LEFTIST, DAMNyankee, bigots out of the northeastern, "poison ivy league screwls".
furthermore,the "pack of lies" it DENIGRATES the BRAVE & LOYAL service of the Black Union soldiers, who "fought to the last breath" for their side.
next, when GEN Forrest was in the KKK (briefly) it was to be a GUERRILLA FORCE to fight the DYs, who were in the south;land after the WBTS. there was NO "racial component" to the organization at THAT time. when the General discovered that the RACISTS had taken over the group, the General VERY PUBLICALLY left it.
free dixie,sw
that's why.
free dixie,sw
the U S POW Center (at Andersonville) investigated every available/possible accusation (over a 10-year investigation) of INTENTIONAL abuse/torture/murder/other war crimes & could NOT find CREDABLE evidence of even ONE such incident.
there was MUCH sickness/hunger/disease & many deaths, but NO cases of INTENTIONAL abuse of POWs there. period.end of story.
otoh, the DYs ran DEATH CAMPS at Point Lookout, MD, Elmira, NY, Camp Douglas, IL & at some other places.
the INTENT of which was TORTURE,denial of medical care, INTENTIONAL starvation, "exposure of their natural persons to cold of winter & heat of summer, without suitable shelter" & (in all too many cases) OUTRIGHT cold-bloodied MURDER.
fwiw, a serving Prussian MAJ of The 4th King's Hussars, who visited Point Lookout, MD, was the first (known) person to use the term = Concentration Camp to describe the facility. MAJ Achs said, in his report to the commanding general, that "if the present war continues much longer, i expect NONE of those UNFORTUNATES to survive".
free dixie,sw
“Gee, the guy that Black Flagged Ft. Pillow and started the KKK was a real nice guy after all?”
He must have been or my ancestors wouldn’t have served under him. :)
I’ll repeat an opinion I’ve offered several times on this forum: Slavery would have ended within a generation without the Civil War and civil rights were set back, not advanced, by Northern interference labeled “reconstruction”.
This from an Nth generation Yankee.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Add Columbus, Ohio to your list of death camps. The cemetary still exists.
Thanks, good information.
Of General Forrest, I think we can say that he tried hard to do what he thought was right. If he sometimes failed to do so ... so do we all. If he was sometimes wrong about what was right ... so are we all.
NBF - Probably the best fighting General in American History!
fyi, 4 of the 5 members of MY family, who were UNfortunate enough to be "guests of the DAMNyankees" at PLPOWC, were MURDERED on their 1st day of "confinement" because they were "other than white persons".
free dixie,sw
free dixie HUGS,sw
inasmuch as a LARGE percentage of the MILLION Americans KILLED during the war were "persons other than white" (the DY army "freed" many slaves from being ALIVE!), this seems a REALLY high price to pay for 5-10 years of "freedom" for the remaining slaves.
otoh, the war from the dixie view was about FREEDOM;from the unionist side it was about $$$$$$$$ & keeping the south PERMANENTLY subservient to northern commercial/financial/manufacturing/railroad interests.
free dixie,sw
Thank God for Forrest bump.
I think the prime motivation for start of the Civil War was the abolition of slavery on the Northern side, not wanting to be pushed around on the Southern side.
Once the fuse was lit, neither side was capable of backing down. Yes, the Civil War did far more harm than good; the freedom (from the most benign form of slavery in human history) for some was purchased a huge price in blood and treasure. And the effect of reconstruction was to harden attitudes and incite racial animosity.
Interesting thought, which I have never encountered or considered before.
Some times require preventive actions to save many people or even mankind from death, ruin and madness (like 1930’s), some may require just the opposite - patience and pressure - to accomplish the same. It’s wise people who can see the distinction and make the right decisions.
Thanks for very interesting discussion and lots of historical facts on this thread.
I never knew Forrest had many blacks serve under him and not all were supply or quartermaster corps.
he offered pay and emancipation to his own slaves who agreed to serve under him
his reputation as a Simon Legree is utterly false.
I’ll be glad to debate Ft Pillow with any Neo-Abolitionists here too if they would like and we can do it strictly with Federal accounts
furthermore, lincoln, the TYRANT, said "in his own hand" that he would assure passage of a Constitutional Amendment to "preserve slavery where it now exists forever".
the FACT is that they SHOULD have cared, but the free persons (of ANY race) mostly did NOT!
after it seemed that the voters were about to toss lincoln out in '64 and/or GB & France were about to recognize the CSA,then & ONLY then did the needLESS war become a "crusade against slavery". otoh, the north did NOT plan to free their slaves, but rather only those in dixie. it's called HYPOCRASY!!!
free dixie,sw
Who made this statement or who's opinion is it? I suppose that whoever it was had evidence or firsthand knowledge as to what they were saying. How about a link?
The quote above is certainly NOT proof that he was a member of the KKK. And if he actually made the statement the radical reconstruction congressional investigation in 1871 could not have found as they did, with Forrest's exoneration.
"The reporter should have asked him if he had ever belonged to the kkk."
Actually he did and is in the body of your post. According to the interview he stated “I am not, but am in sympathy and will co-operate with them."
I think you are right. And slavery ended peacefully everywhere in the west except Haiti and the U.S.
"The quote above is certainly NOT proof that he was a member of the KKK. And if he actually made the statement the radical reconstruction congressional investigation in 1871 could not have found as they did, with Forrest's exoneration."
Should have read: The quote above is certainly NOT proof that he was a member of the KKK. And if Forrest actually made the quoted statement in context as to why he disbanded the KKK the radical reconstruction congressional investigation in 1871 could not have found as they did, with Forrest's exoneration, as the interview, according to you occurred in August, 1868."
not a bad post....these days..
thanks
Recall the Dred Scott decision in which Judge Tannery in his concurrence offered the ex judicio opinion that the government of the Northern states had no right to prohibit slavery and invited a challenge by a prospective Northern slave owner. This galvanized the Northern electorate into voting in the candidate of the heretofore obscure antislavery Republican party.
Dred Scott, Bleeding Kansas, Harper’s Ferry and the election of Lincoln were the long fuse that set off a most avoidable and unnecessary war.
Even with it all, perhaps, perhaps, if that hothead Edmund Ruffin had not fired the first shot on Fort Sumter on his own initiative, the War might have been avoided.
Most of the problems that are with us today, trace to some extent, to the Civil War.
They constructed the buildings from green lumber during the summer. The lumber shrank during the winter and thousands died of exposure during the severe Ohio winter.
Nice. But it would help if the guy knew how to spell barbecue.
otoh, the criminal acts of the "filth in blue uniforms" at PLPOWC, Hellmira & Camp Douglas (the 3 MAIN DEATH CAMPS)were INTENTIONAL, premeditated, war crimes.
rape, sexual assaults, torture, denial of medical attention, denial of sufficient food, denial of shelter & coldblooded MURDER were COMMONPLACE.
a letter order from a union officer at PLPOWC states that any guard shooting or bayoneting a prisoner "without cause shall be fined the sum of ONE DOLLAR"!!! (emphasis MINE)
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
furthermore, a personal letter from lincoln to a MA politician stated that after the war was over that ALL the Blacks were to be deported back to Africa BUT that "the red savages, who are creatures without souls, must be EXTERMINATED to the last one" (emphasis MINE).
lincoln was anything BUT a decent person.
free dixie,sw
bump
Still making this crap up as you go along, huh?
Because the slaves in Haiti launched a rebellion to end slavery. And the slave owners in the U.S. launched a rebellion to protect slavery.
Yes, the damnyankees perfected the art of cruelty and murder.
The only traces I can find today of the "Jubilee of Pole Bearers" are references to Forrest's speech. It may have been more of a social or fraternal organization, rather than a political group.
Forrest died of complications of diabetes in 1877. Maybe he was already ailing when he addressed the group. He'd gone bankrupt some years earlier when his railroad failed.
So perhaps Nathan Bedford Forrest was trying to get right with God. He may have felt guilty about something: "Men have come to me to ask for quarter, both black and white, and I have shielded them."
That adds something to our understanding of the man. But if Forrest helped create the conditions where White Southern politicians couldn't talk like this publicly to a Black organization for a century, that also shouldn't be ignored.
I made a note to myself to come back in a couple of months to see if anyone had taken you up on your offer.
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