Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)

Seizethecarp vanity commentary on Dr. Ron J. Polland youtube dated 08/07/11 ^ | August 1, 2012 | Seizethecarp (vanity)

[Seizethecarp]

"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland

The “Mal-Val” youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named “Val” into an image of Obama, he insinuates that “Val” is Obama’s mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.

In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, “Val,” in Polarik’s Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obama’s mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.

Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?

Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.

For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as “researchers” has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obama’s mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!

Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.

For years the “researchers” had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barry’s mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the “researchers” claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the “researchers” appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been “protecting.” They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.

The “researchers” claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldn’t revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?

In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barry’s mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the “researchers” have totally failed to refute.

Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obama’s mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.

[Brown Deer]

I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.

I doubt that anyone with that sort of evidence would be sharing it with you. What makes you think that they would?

[Brown Deer]

Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived?

Where do you think they were?

[Brown Deer]

In what country could the baby have been delivered?

What country do you think he was born in?

[Bubba_Leroy]

In another distraction meant to keep American voters away from the real issues, Fox News channel announced today that the GOP is in possession of a birth certificate proving beyond doubt that Barack Obama's real birthplace is, in fact, planet Lappa IV, located in the Alpha Quadrant and inhabited by a splinter group of the Ferengi species, who have developed a highly collectivist culture based on the principles of socialist acquisition and redistribution of wealth.

According to conservative commentators, the Democrat presidential hopeful's home planet is governed by the Central Planning Committee made primarily of the State Board of Expropriators and Liquidators, who offer prayers and sacrificial offerings to a Blessed Taxperson in hopes of entering the Divine Pork Barrel upon death, and fear an afterlife spent in a Subsidized Housing For the Common Good they legislated and financed with public money.

This explains Barack Obama campaign's earlier secrecy over his birth site, especially if we consider the outdated constitutional requirement that presidents must be "natural-born" U.S. citizens.

Obama's Birth Certificate Proves He's Not From Earth

[Brown Deer]

They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!

Could you please provide the readers with copies of the voluminous evidence?

I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.

Could you please provide the readers a comprehensive analysis of those same documents?

[Seizethecarp]

“I hear you also believe that an indentured servant named John Punch who broke his contract and was sentenced to slavery is an ancestor of Barry because his name rhymes with Bunch.”

I have characterized that as a “claim,” as I usually do regarding assertions made by other experts.

Given that I regard the evidence that Stanley Ann is Barry's mom to be overwhelming, absent a Conspiracy Theory (CT) level of document manipulation, I would assign a “more probable than not” level of confidence that Barry would have the same level of African genes consistent with other members of the Bunch family who had their DNA tested and were found to be positive for African genes.

“and btw, don't you also believe that Communist Frank Marshall Davis who was 55 years old when 0bama was born, is his real father?”

I have not taken a position one way or the other between the most likely sperm donor candidates FMD and BHO Sr. On the record they were extremely active outside their respective marriages, real or alleged.

If the nudie pics are genuine (awaiting facial recognition study) FMD had the means, motive and opportunity to be Barry's father, but by Christmas 1960 when the pics appear to have been taken, he may have been too late!

[Hardraade]

As crazy as ever, I see. We’ve had this conversation before, Bambi.

[Seizethecarp]

When I speculate, I try to use a conditional tense to make that clear.

I try to avoid declarative statements of fact for which I have no evidence, as many of the “researchers” have done, such as:

1. Stanley Ann is not the mother
2. Stanley Ann was never in Hawaii until 1963
3. David Obama, Barry's half-brother, never existed
4. The original Barack H. Obama is the man now known as Roman Obama of Equatorial Guinea
5. Stanley Ann was Barry's nanny, not his mother
6. Roman Obama is the “dark boy” in the family picture with BHO Sr., Ruth Ndesandjo and Mark
7. Three-year-old Barry was substituted for Roman Obama in Stanley Ann's care in HI and sent to Kenya.

Stuff like that I avoid saying.

[Hardraade]

Just to remind you (and everyone else):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2562565/posts?q=1&;page=1

[Brown Deer]

Stuff like that I avoid saying.

You mean like this?

We know for a fact that BHO Sr. was a sexual predator...

and this?

KGB. Had a lot invested in Frank Davis and also in BHO Sr. who was a raving communist speaking at KGB-front union events while in HI and likely being groomed to be a Marxist mole in the anticipated independent Kenya. An alleged marriage and assumed paternity by BHO Sr of FMD's baby would protect both FMD and BHO Sr. from being fingered as father of an illegitimate black baby.

[Brown Deer]

No need to remind me that you are a retread troll.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2562565/replies?c=57

[little jeremiah]

No, the absolute proof is a bit of flooring stored in a garage for 50 years.

Case closed!

[Brown Deer]

I try to avoid declarative statements of fact for which I have no evidence, as many of the “researchers” have done...

and you actually have evidence showing that many of the “researchers” have made all of those declarative statements of fact in this declarative statement of fact that you have made?

[little jeremiah]

You’ve gone around the bend.

Why not stop before it’s too late and the men with the extra long sleeved jacket show up.

[Brown Deer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshPiEUGyZ8

[little jeremiah]

That’s it.

[Seizethecarp]

“I doubt that anyone with that sort of evidence would be sharing it with you. What makes you think that they would?”

Given the reluctance of the Mal-Val “researchers” to disclose their claimed evidence that Valerie Sarruf and Malcolm X are that parents of Barack Obama, I have opened this thread to see if they or others would finally come forward, especially now that the secret mother's identity in their claimed narrative has slipped out.

[Seizethecarp]

“Where do you think they were?”

As I said, I do not find the Mal-Val narrative to be credible in the least, so I do not believe Malcolm and Valerie conceived Barack anywhere. However if you happen to have evidence that would help remove Obama from office, such as evidence that he was born outside the US to a non-citizen mother, wouldn't now be a good time to make the evidence public?

[Brown Deer]

However if you happen to have evidence that would help remove Obama from office...

What makes you believe that I would have some evidence?

[Seizethecarp]

“Could you please provide the readers with copies of the voluminous evidence?”

In opening this thread I have invited presentation and discussion of evidence that either Valerie Sarruf IS Barry's mom or evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT his mom. For you, I will restate the highlights of the voluminous evidence that Stanley Ann IS Barry's mom.

The U of HI, U of WA, FOIA INS docs, HI vital record index, divorce records all conclusively affirm that Stanley Ann was in Hawaii in parts of 1960, 1961 and 1962 and was associated with BHO Sr and possible FMD at that time. Most significantly, the FOIA INS docs affirm Stanley Ann as the mother of her baby named Barack Hussein Obama as early as August 1961.

Note that the INS FOIA docs destroy the "Dreams" narrative and the reputation of BHO Sr. showing him to have been suspected of getting not only 17-year-old Stanley Ann pregnant, but later a fellow Kenyan student who, though the account is partially redacted, was most likely sent to the UK for an abortion and returned to Kenya.

The FOIA INS docs reveal BHO Sr. having little concern for baby Barry and having actively discussed turning him over to the Salvation Army as of April 1961.

A marriage date of Feb. 2, 1961 is in the INS FOIA docs corroborating the date in the 1964 divorce decree and also corroborated by the existence of an HI marriage vital record for Stanley Ann and BHO Sr. Even though this marriage is most likely a legal nullity due to bigamy, in HI BHO Sr. is shown to have acknowledge himself to be the legal father of Barry, if all of these documents are genuine.

So whether or not BHO Sr. was the biological sperm donor or not he is, on the record, the legal father of Barry and she is the legal mother, affirmed by the 1964 HI divorce decree, (and finally, the Lolo divorce decree after Barry was 18 indicating she had custody when he turned 18).