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Presence of firearm in Martin case woefully unaddressed (Heads full of mush alert)
The Lamron of SUNY Geneseo ^ | April 26, 2012 | Jessica Maslyn

Posted on 04/27/2012 10:12:27 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Since the Feb. 26 shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, racial backlash concerning the incident has consumed the media. Many suggest that Martin’s death stems from an inherent suspicion in this country of young black males. Others disagree with this assessment, citing that Zimmerman is Hispanic and therefore a minority himself.

While I do not deny the significant role race played in Martin’s death, a key element of the case has seemingly gone unnoticed – 28-year-old George Zimmerman, Martin’s shooter, was unnecessarily armed with a 9 mm pistol.

Regardless of Martin’s race and Zimmerman’s intentions, why was a 9 mm handgun in play? Is this a necessary weapon to carry when on neighborhood watch? Zimmerman apparently thought so, but I beg to differ.

The instant a gun is introduced in any sort of altercation – violent or otherwise – the parties involved are invited to act with increased aggression, citing self-defense as their reasoning. Zimmerman’s defense, based on the Stand Your Ground law in Florida, follows this pattern.

According to the law, an individual without a weapon may react violently even if a gun isn’t directly pointed at them. A mere glimpse at a hidden gun can leave one party feeling defenseless and as though the threat on their life has been raised.

Further, personally owned guns are notoriously turned against the very individual who owns them. According to a study done by Director of RAND Health Arthur Kellermann, a member of a household where a gun is present is almost three times as likely to be a victim of homicide compared to gun-free households. The question of malicious intent thus becomes futile because both parties are apparently operating under the pretenses of self-defense. In short, the presence of such a weapon elevates a dispute past the point of no return.

It is for these reasons that a gun has no place in a neighborhood watch program. Intent aside, my feeling of safety would greatly decline if I knew that an armed neighbor was patrolling the streets of my neighborhood.

Zimmerman’s use of a gun as a means of protection becomes all the more trivial with the knowledge that he was in close vicinity to his vehicle. Was this vehicle a too-passive form of defense in the event of conflict? Zimmerman apparently thought so, but again I disagree.

It’s also safe to say that the added precaution of a fellow volunteer would have been more effective than the defense provided by a weapon. Zimmerman clearly felt that his volunteer position put him at enough risk to warrant carrying a gun. So how could he possibly be in a secure-enough position to be on duty alone?

The contradicting accounts of what actually happened on the night that Trayvon Martin was shot have left this case muddled and unclear. Police reports and witnesses from the Florida neighborhood, Martin’s girlfriend and Zimmerman’s father all cling to varying portrayals of the same story. What remains as the trigger of these events, however, is the faulty decision George Zimmerman made to carry a gun that February night.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
Are you obtuse or ignorant? A) Mr. Zimmerman wasn't on neighborhood watch, he was on his way to the store when he spotted 6ft 3in Trayvon Martin scoping out apartments in the rain. (B) Mr. Zimmerman had a concealed weapons carry permit from the state of Florida (C) he says he was attacked by Trayvon Martin, knocked to the ground and had his head beaten repeated ly against the pavement and (D) he was asked by his neighbors to start the neighborhood watch. Plus, it turns out that Mr. Zimmerman has more black ancestry than your supposed "first black president."
1 posted on 04/27/2012 10:12:36 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Martin’s shooter, was unnecessarily armed with a 9 mm pistol.


If he had not been ‘unnecessarily’ armed, he would most likely be in a coma, or worse.


2 posted on 04/27/2012 10:15:55 AM PDT by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Mr. Zimmerman has more black ancestry than your supposed "first black president."

Well, no.

Obama is at least 50% black.

Zimmerman probably is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry.

3 posted on 04/27/2012 10:19:44 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I agree. Why was a 9mm there? I carry .357 mag at least. Better stopping power.


4 posted on 04/27/2012 10:21:17 AM PDT by jrg
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

>>Zimmerman apparently thought so, but I beg to differ.<<

The free exercise of a right specifically granted by the Bill Of Rights is not somthing to which you are allowed to “differ.”


5 posted on 04/27/2012 10:22:02 AM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Sherman Logan

You need to keep track. Mr. Obama is about 45% Arab, 5-7% black and 50% white. Mr. Zimmerman has a black great-grandfather. Guess you didn’t see too many of the birth certificate threads?


6 posted on 04/27/2012 10:25:23 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Further, personally owned guns are notoriously turned against the very individual who owns them.
Ah ah! Mystery solved!

Zimmerman was trying to shoot HIMSELF and Martin stepped in to take the bullet for him!

Wow! What would we do without our liberal anti-gun friends?

What would we do without their big giant brains to solve these thorny issues?

7 posted on 04/27/2012 10:25:38 AM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: Sherman Logan

I beg to differ is at a maximum 50% black more than likely less that that depending on how many Arabs there are on his father’s family tree.


8 posted on 04/27/2012 10:26:13 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: jrg
I agree. Why was a 9mm there? I carry .357 mag at least. Better stopping power.
LOL!
9 posted on 04/27/2012 10:26:23 AM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’ll tell you what, Jessica.

Why don’t you let me punch you in the face hard enough to break your nose. Then let me slam your empty head into the sidewalk repeatedly with obvious intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

Then you and I can discuss whether or not a gun would be a handy tool to have in that situation.

It’s writings like this that have convinced me that the voting age should be raised to 25 at least.


10 posted on 04/27/2012 10:28:08 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Someone posted (on fb) a pic of someone holding a sign that read "It's called a neighborhood 'watch'....you don't bring a gun to a 'watch'".

I think that was one of the stupidest things I've seen posted, and I've seen some pretty stupid things posted.

11 posted on 04/27/2012 10:28:53 AM PDT by reformed_dem
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To: freedumb2003
a right specifically granted by the Bill Of Rights

I prefer the word 'protected' instead of 'granted'. God granted our rights. The BOR is supposed to protect them from government encroachment. Not that it has worked that way....

/johnny

12 posted on 04/27/2012 10:29:54 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If Zimmerman didn’t have a gun he would be the one dead now and I doubt that Martin would be the one arrested.

When the idiot writer stated this I quit reading:
urther, personally owned guns are notoriously turned against the very individual who owns them. According to a study done by Director of RAND Health Arthur Kellermann, a member of a household where a gun is present is almost three times as likely to be a victim of homicide compared to gun-free households.

It is from a study done by Kellerman and after his work was researched it was found that he based his findings on false research. Even he had to agree his findings were false after admitting his research was based on incorrect data.

Anyone using Kellerman as their basis is doing so out of ignorance to the fact that the findings were proven false. Therefor the writer is an uninformed idiot using lies to prove their point.

Enough said.


13 posted on 04/27/2012 10:30:55 AM PDT by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"According to a study done by Director of RAND Health Arthur Kellermann, a member of a household where a gun is present is almost three times as likely to be a victim of homicide compared to gun-free households."

Wonder how these statistics, if true, are skewed by the presence of guns in drug dens and the homes of thugs? Lots of killin' going on there that has nothing to do with a law abiding citizen keeping a gun in the home for protection.

14 posted on 04/27/2012 10:31:34 AM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (Don't wish doom on your enemies ... plan it.)
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To: Lurker
Or adopt Robert Heinlien's suggestion in Starship Troopers that only veterans get the franchise. There would've never been a "president Obama" if that were that case.
15 posted on 04/27/2012 10:32:19 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: samtheman

To quote Archie Bunker “would it make you feel any better if they wuz pushed outta windahs”?


16 posted on 04/27/2012 10:34:29 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Heinlein had a lot to say about “warm body” democracies, none of it positive. He was exactly right.


17 posted on 04/27/2012 10:35:16 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Sherman Logan

“Zimmerman probably is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry.”

It is reported that Zimmerman’s mother is of Peruvian ancestry, which, by the way, is neither Spanish not “Hispanic,” the definition of which I do not know.
I’ve not read anything about the racial components of “Zimmerman,” and all of the foregoing is irrelevant because young Miller was not killed because of his race.


18 posted on 04/27/2012 10:35:34 AM PDT by Elsiejay
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To: JRandomFreeper

>>I prefer the word ‘protected’ instead of ‘granted’. God granted our rights. The BOR is supposed to protect them from government encroachment. Not that it has worked that way....<<

An excellent point. I am giving a speech on our dwindling liberties and I will note your distinction.


19 posted on 04/27/2012 10:35:42 AM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Presence of firearm in Martin case woefully unaddressed
Yeah, that's right, Jessica.

No anti-gun lefties have even thought about criticizing gun ownership in this case.

They all were waiting for your Big Giant Brain to think up this idea!

They owe you a big thanks!

20 posted on 04/27/2012 10:38:45 AM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: freedumb2003
I always key in on rights 'granted' by the Constutition. It's a pet peeve. ;)

God granted rights to persons. Persons granted POWERS to governments. Governments don't have rights. People do.

Good luck with your speech. And thank you for that service for freedom.

/johnny

21 posted on 04/27/2012 10:40:31 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

One of the many good articles written debunking Kellerman’s findings. http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html

Just do a search in yahoo or google asking “Kellerman study debunked” and you’ll see many more.

This “study” was written with his end result already known and the research was done to prove his findings not the other way around. This is the kind of crap that Michael Moore does with his crockumentaries.


22 posted on 04/27/2012 10:43:03 AM PDT by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Arab isn’t a race - alleged Babydaddy BHO1 was a negro with muslim/arabic ethnicity thrown in.


23 posted on 04/27/2012 10:44:26 AM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
While I do not deny the significant role race played in Martin’s death, a key element of the case has seemingly gone unnoticed – 28-year-old George Zimmerman, Martin’s shooter, was unnecessarily armed with a 9 mm pistol.

I smell some "unnecessary" free speech.

24 posted on 04/27/2012 10:47:10 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t know what kind of friggin fool wrote this tripe, but the fact is that if Zimmerman had not had a gun , he would be the one that 6 carried to the grave.


25 posted on 04/27/2012 10:47:17 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Sioux-san
Technically, Arabs are Semitic whites, which means Mr. Obama is mostly white and about 5-7% black. Sounds like Mr. Zimmerman has him beat.
26 posted on 04/27/2012 10:47:24 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: Sherman Logan
“Zimmerman probably is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry.”

I was reading a story by Robert Howard (Conan creator) and he had the term “Octoroon” in it, upon looking it up, it means basically 1/8 Black.

There is also Quadroon (1/4) and Mulatto (1/2 as in Obama).

Amazing that this used to be tracked and common terms, and me as a “racist” conservative did not know the term (I knew Mulatto).

27 posted on 04/27/2012 10:47:39 AM PDT by where's_the_Outrage?
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
According to the law, an individual without a weapon may react violently even if a gun isn’t directly pointed at them.
What law is that?
28 posted on 04/27/2012 10:50:17 AM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: Lurker

Amen to that! I read that Zimmerman initially bought his little Keltech because of problems with a pitbull that was running around the neighborhood and threatening him and his wife when they were out on walks. The police recommended that he not use pepperspray but rather buy a gun that would work on taking down the crazy dog if necessary. Voila!


29 posted on 04/27/2012 10:50:20 AM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: freedumb2003; JRandomFreeper

I’d go one step further and use the phrase “Constitutionally guaranteed” interchangeably with “protected”.

Your right not to be tortured by your Government is “Constitonally guaranteed/protected”. It’ll keep you from using one word too often. It will also plant the idea that the Constitution applies to them personally.

Just a thought.


30 posted on 04/27/2012 10:55:21 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Liberals live in a dream world. There are no “bad” people. No one ever needs punished. If everyone just loved one another we wouldn’t need anything. But, oh boy, take away their apple products and so help them, they will uprise.


31 posted on 04/27/2012 11:06:55 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

ALL VALID POINTS THAT THE LEFT CARES TO IGNORE....


32 posted on 04/27/2012 11:15:13 AM PDT by tatsinfla
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Dum dum doesn’t know what the second amendment is. She probably does not know what a constitution is. If something makes dum dum emote, it should be banned.


33 posted on 04/27/2012 11:20:51 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: tatsinfla

MY AMEX CARD (close to GZ’s Kel-tec 9mm)

Kel-tec .380 w/hollow points. Made in FL, guaranteed for life.

Don’t even know it’s in your pocket. I wouldn’t carry a big thing. So this is better than nothing!


34 posted on 04/27/2012 11:20:51 AM PDT by bicyclerepair ( REPLACE D-W-S ! http://www.karenforcongress.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

That is the best argument I have heard on disarming police persons.


35 posted on 04/27/2012 11:30:51 AM PDT by OldEagle
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To: Sioux-san
Exactly....he was advised by the police to get a gun to protect his wife and himself. His next door neighbor's house had also been broken into (while she was at home) by two thugs (who just happened to be black). So he did have legitimate concerns. It's a good thing he did have a gun.
36 posted on 04/27/2012 11:40:39 AM PDT by Red RN ("Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid." John Wayne)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I posted this on the referenced web site:

“Regardless of Martin’s race and Zimmerman’s intentions, why was a 9 mm handgun in play? Is this a necessary weapon to carry when on neighborhood watch? Zimmerman apparently thought so, but I beg to differ. “

Beg to differ all you want. Mr. Zimmerman was simply exercising his PERSONAL 2nd Amendment right to carry a personal firearm. End of story. Still, it’s a good thing Mr Zimmerman was armed when Mr. Martin snuck up on Mr. Zimmerman while Mr. Zimmerman was attempting to enter his vehicle, and then proceeded to knock Mr. Zimmerman to the pavement and bash Mr. Zimmerman’s head into said pavement until Mr. Zimmerman was forced to shoot Mr. Martin in self-defense in order to stop Mr. Martin from beating Mr. Zimmerman to death. No doubt you would have preferred for Mr. Zimmerman to be defenseless and to be beaten to death by Mr. Martin.

I suggest that everyone who reads this post go make a post there as well.


37 posted on 04/27/2012 11:55:51 AM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In this Country, blacks attack whites over... ONE THOUSAND TIMES EVERY SINGLE DAY! Hell Zimmerman should have had two guns.


38 posted on 04/27/2012 11:56:42 AM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: bicyclerepair

carry a .380 sometimes 9mm....depends on how i am feeling that day....lol...


39 posted on 04/27/2012 12:38:17 PM PDT by tatsinfla (obama, 1/2 honkey all donkey.......)
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To: Elsiejay
"It is reported that Zimmerman’s mother is of Peruvian ancestry, which, by the way, is neither Spanish not “Hispanic,” the definition of which I do not know."

It is obvious that you do not know a thing about Hispanics, the Viceroyalty of Peru created in 1542 was Spain's first and largest holding in South America spanning from Panama to the Antarctic circle in southern Chile all the way east to where the Portuguese held what would become Brazil. That vast area was held until 1824. Never forget the Spaniards conquered almost all of the new world and held it for over 300 years at one point with the exception of far eastern Brazil the Spaniards held lands from Washington state /Oregon to the Mississippi river to include New Orleans all of Meso America and all of South America except east Brazil for hundreds of years. Hispanics are an ethnicity tracing their roots to these Spanish Colonial times some one from Peru is almost certainly Hispanic in ethnicity and there is a good chance they are of racially Iberian Spaniard as well at least the upper classes in South America only marry into other European racial bloodlines. His mother is most likely Mestizos being a product of Spaniard and Amerindian mixing. Which means Zimmerman is a Zambos being of Mestizos and Black mixing. Iberian Spaniards have a system of classifying all our half, quarter and eightlings. Anything less than an 8th mixed with a Españoles europeos would be back to being Españoles criollos or a "Americas born Spaniard".

40 posted on 04/27/2012 3:05:55 PM PDT by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici")
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To: JD_UTDallas

Highly informative and interesting account of western hemispere history that I’d not ever heard or read about.
.


41 posted on 04/27/2012 4:31:19 PM PDT by Elsiejay
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

It IS heartening to read the comments, this college dipsh!t is being “taken to school” in a big way!;)


42 posted on 04/27/2012 8:32:23 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: maine yankee

Don’t forget this is from NY, and I’m sure a lot of NY’ers think the Sullivan Act covers the entire state;) In NYC, you have to prove you’re being stalked or threatened before you can be armed (unless you’ve got connections;) /s


43 posted on 04/27/2012 8:42:38 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
9 mm handgun in play? Is this a necessary weapon to carry when on neighborhood watch? Zimmerman apparently thought so, but I beg to differ.

Beg is what you would have to do for your life from a thug since you refuse to be a responsible adult and protect yourself. Good luck with that.
44 posted on 04/27/2012 11:09:19 PM PDT by D1X1E
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To: freedumb2003

As has been noted previously, your screen name is appropriate. FYI, the Constitution for the United States GRANTS NOTHING to We, the People. It is our contract with the Several States which creates, then grants certain limited authority and power to FedGov and requires all levels of government to protect our God-granted, PRE-EXISTING rights. What government grants, government can taketh away, which is the Marxist position. What God grants, only He can taketh away. Which was the Founders’ position.


45 posted on 04/28/2012 1:18:58 PM PDT by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: dcwusmc

My clumsy phasing was politely pointed out and clarified by several kind posters.

And they saw no need for insults.

If you claim to be on God’s side, you should not conduct yourself as if you a minion of Satan.


46 posted on 04/28/2012 1:28:05 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Can’t anyone say “GOOD SHOOT”?


47 posted on 04/28/2012 2:38:15 PM PDT by S.O.S121.500 (That Kenyan bastard is not my president. ENFORCE the Bill of Rights.)
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To: S.O.S121.500

I don’t know whether it has been determined that Mr.Zimmerman shot Mr.Martin purposefully.

Mr.Martin may have grabbed for the gun upon seeing it and seized it by the barrel. Mr.Zimmerman, to prevent the gun’s seizure, grabbed the gun by its grip. The shooting may have been accidental.

The police, I suspect, would have fingerprinted the gun after the shooting as per procedure. If not then there is only Mr.Zimmerman’s word against the forensic evidence of a bullet wound.


48 posted on 04/28/2012 3:29:59 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: SatinDoll
I don’t know whether it has been determined that Mr.Zimmerman shot Mr.Martin purposefully.

I agree with you.

Mr. Zimmerman never said that he pulled the gun to shoot Mr. Martin.

He said that Mr. Martin sucker punched him in mid-sentence, jumped on him while he was on the ground, and proceeded to beat on him. He said that Trayvon then tried to take his gun, and then .... boom... Trayvon keeled over backwards, dead.

From all accounts, Mr. Zimmerman was upset over Trayvon being dead, and in the struggle I doubt whether Mr. Zimmerman knows WHO pulled/pushed the trigger.

I suspect Mr. Martin pulled on the gun barrel while it was pointed his way, or he reached for the handle and trigger, putting enough pressure on Mr. Zimmerman's fingers , squeezing down the trigger.

As has recently been made public, Mr. Zimmerman got the gun to protect himself from PIT BULLS at the ADVICE OF THE POLICE, and never had any intention of using it on humans.

49 posted on 04/29/2012 7:19:18 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This whole Obama is a Arab thing was stared with Kenneth Lamb. I’m surprised that there are still some people who believe him. Ask Beckwith how reliable a source Lamb is. Lamb never provided any proof. When Beckwith asked for some back in ‘08, not once but several times, Lamb to this day never responded.


50 posted on 04/29/2012 1:11:49 PM PDT by Jacob Kell (Just because one is famous doesn't mean that they know more than everybody else.)
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