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Research - Vattel & the meaning of the Constitutional term "Natural Born Citizen"
http://www.loc.gov/index.html ^ | 5/12/2010 | many

Posted on 05/12/2010 12:36:53 PM PDT by rxsid

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To: rxsid; patlin; Red Steel; edge919; Spaulding

V. As a fourth source of evidence, I mentioned the moral sense, or that faculty of the mind, by which we have the original conceptions that there is a right and a wrong in conduct; and that some particular actions are right, and others wrong.

Without this last power of applying our conceptions to particular actions, and of determining concerning their moral qualities, our general and abstract notions of moral good and evil would be of no service to us in directing the conduct and affairs of human life.

The moral sense is a distinct and original power of the human mind. By this power, and by this power solely, we receive information and evidence of the first principles of right and wrong, of merit and demerit.

He, who would know the colour of any particular object, must consult his eye : in vain will he consult every other faculty upon the point.

In the same manner, he, who would learn the moral qualities of any particular action, must consult his moral sense : no other faculty of the mind can give him the necessary information.

The evidence given by our moral sense, like that given by our external senses, is the evidence of nature ; and, in both cases, we have the same grounds for relying on that evidence.

The truths given in evidence by the external senses are the first principles from which we reason concerning matter, and from which all our knowledge of the material world is drawn.

In the same manner, the truths given in evidence by our moral faculty are the first principles, from which we reason concerning moral subjects, and from which all our knowledge of morality is deduced.

The powers, which Nature has kindly bestowed upon us, are the only channels, through which the evidence of truth and knowledge can flow in upon our minds.

Virtuous demeanour is the duty, and should be the aim, of every man : the knowledge and evidence of moral truth is, therefore, placed within the reach of all.

Of right and wrong there are many different degrees; and there are also many different kinds. By the moral faculty we distinguish those kinds and degrees. By the same faculty we compare the different kinds together, and discover numerous moral relations between them.

Our knowledge of moral philosophy, of natural jurisprudence, of the law of nations, must ultimately depend, for its first principles, on the evidence and information of the moral sense.

This power furnishes to us the first principles of our most important knowledge. In dignity, it is far superiour to every other power of the human mind.

http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&id=82ZGAAAAYAAJ&output=text&pg=PA81


341 posted on 03/25/2011 5:28:55 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1
pg 13-14

But the Colonies in North America, except those planted within the present Century, were founded by Englishmen; who, becoming

* Strahan in his Preface to Domat.

[-14 1

private Adventurers, established themselves, without any Expense to the Nation, in this uncultivated and almost uninhabited Country; for that their Case is plainly distinguishable from that of the Roman, or any other Colonies of the ancient World.

As then we can receive no Light from the Laws of the Kingdom, or from ancient History, to direct us in our Inquiry, we must have Recourse to the Law of Nature, and those Rights of Mankind which flow from
it
.

Enter Grotious, Pufendorf, Sidney, Locke & finally Vattel

342 posted on 03/25/2011 5:43:06 PM PDT by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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To: patlin; rxsid; Red Steel; edge919; Spaulding
Photobucket
343 posted on 03/25/2011 5:49:37 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1
I read Wilson's works 2 years ago. His & Story's works was at the top of my list in understanding our Constitution & America law. Wilson's works are especially rife with the influences the law & Nature had in America's founding from the 1st colony established, which led to the revolution. His in depth study of the history of natural law and the law of nations is insurmountable.
344 posted on 03/25/2011 5:55:33 PM PDT by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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To: Mr Rogers

fail


345 posted on 03/25/2011 6:06:18 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: patlin; Red Steel; rxsid
Photobucket
346 posted on 03/25/2011 6:37:26 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: rxsid

Don’t forget the way back machine. Some interesting things turn up there.


347 posted on 03/25/2011 6:38:07 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: patlin; bushpilot1; rxsid

You all amaze me.

Thank you for what you are doing!


348 posted on 03/25/2011 6:52:13 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: patlin; rxsid; edge919; Red Steel; Spaulding; Danae

That law, which God has made for man in his present state; that law, which is communicated to us by reason and conscience, the divine monitors within us, and by the sacred oracles, the divine monitors without us.

This law has undergone several subdivisions, and has been known by distinct appellations, according to the different ways in which it has been promulgated, and the different objects which it respects.

As promulgated by reason and the moral sense, it has been called natural; as promulgated by the holy scriptures, it has been called revealed law.

As addressed to men, it has been denominated the law of nature ; as addressed to political societies, it has been denominated the law of nations.

But it should always be remembered, that this law, natural or revealed, made for men or for nations, flows from the same divine source:

it is the law of God.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-Yo0AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA104&dq=law+of+nations++divine++james+wilson&output=text


349 posted on 03/25/2011 7:03:37 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1

Do I hear an AMEN!?


350 posted on 03/25/2011 7:07:35 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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Laws and regulations of the College of William and Mary, in Virginia (1837)
351 posted on 04/05/2011 4:01:27 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: bushpilot1; Spaulding; Red Steel; devattel; patlin
Notes re publication of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 - Written by James Madison in 1830

"Letters & writings constitutional - law of nations"...

Continued...


352 posted on 04/11/2011 12:26:27 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid; Red Steel; STARWISE; Spaulding; patlin

The complete Franklin letter to Dumas:

To Charles-Guillaume-Frédéric Dumas

Reprinted from The Port Folio, II (1802), 236-7; extracts: American Philosophical Society; Archives du Ministère des affaires étrangères, Paris; Algemeen Rijksarchief, the Hague.

Philadelphia December 9, 1775.

Dear sir,

I received your several favours, of May 18, June 30, and July 8, by Messrs. Vaillant and Pochard; whom, if I could serve upon your recommendation, it would give me great pleasure.

Their total want of English is at present an obstruction to their getting any employment among us; but I hope they will soon obtain some knowledge of it.

This is a good country for artificers or farmers, but gentlemen, of mere science in les belles lettres, cannot so easily subsist here, there being little demand for their assistance among an industrious people, who, as yet, have not much leisure for studies of that kind.

I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel.

It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations.

Accordingly, that copy which I kept, (after depositing one in our own public library here, and sending the other to the college of Massachusetts Bay, as you directed has been continually in the hands of the members of our congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a high and just esteem for their author.

Your manuscript Idee sur le gouvernment et la royauté, is also well relished, and may, in time, have its effect.

I thank you, likewise, for the other smaller pieces, which accompanied Vattel.

Le court exposé de ce qui s’est passe entre la cour Br. et les colonies, &c. being a very concise and clear statement of facts, will be reprinted here, for the use of our new friends in Canada.

The translations of the proceedings of our congress are very acceptable. I send you herewith what of them has been farther published here, together with a few newspapers, containing accounts of some of the successes providence has favoured us with.

We are threatened from England with a very powerful force, to come next year against us. We are making all the provision in our power here to oppose that force, and we hope we shall be able to defend ourselves.

But as the events of war are always uncertain, possibly, after another campaign, we may find it necessary to ask aid of some foreign power. It gives us great pleasure to learn from you, that toute l’Europe nous soubaite le plus heureux succes pour le maintien de nos libertes.

But we wish to know whether any one of them, from principles of humanity, is disposed magnanimously to step in for the relief of an oppressed people, or whether if, as it seems likely to happen, we should be obliged to break off all connection with Britain, and declare ourselves an independent people, there is any state or power in Europe, who would be willing to enter into an alliance with us for the benefit of our commerce, which amounted, before the war, to near seven millions sterling per annum, and must continually increase, as our people increase most rapidly.

Confiding, my dear friend, in your good will to us and our cause, and in your sagacity and abilities for business, the committee of congress, appointed for the purpose of establishing and conducting a correspondence with our friends in Europe, of which committee I have the honour to be a member, have directed me to request of you, that as you are situated at the Hague, where ambassadors from all the courts reside, you would make use of the opportunity that situation affords you, of discovering, if possible, the disposition of the several courts with respect to such assistance or alliance, if we should apply for the one, or propose the other.

As it may possibly be necessary, in particular instances, that you should, for this purpose, confer directly with some great ministers, and show them this letter as your credential, we only recommend it to your discretion, that you proceed therein with such caution, as to keep the same from the knowledge of the English ambassador, and prevent any public appearance, at present, of your being employed in any such business, as thereby, we imagine, many inconveniences may be avoided, and your means of rendering us service, increased.

That you may be better able to answer some questions, which will probably be put to you, concerning our present situation, we inform you...

that the whole continent is very firmly united ...

the party for the measures of the British ministry being very small, and much dispersed...that we have had on foot, the last campaign, an army of near twenty-five thousand men, wherewith we have been able, not only to block up the king’s army in Boston, but to spare considerable detachments for the invasion of Canada, where we have met with great success,

as the printed papers sent herewith will inform you, and have now reason to expect that whole province may be soon in our possession...that we purpose greatly to increase our force for the ensuing year;

and thereby we hope, with the assistance of well disciplined militia, to be able to defend our coast, notwithstanding its great extent...that we have already a small squadron of armed vessels, to protect our coasting trade, who have had some success in taking several of the enemy’s cruisers,

and some of their transport vessels, and store ships.

This little naval force we are about to augment, and expect it may be more considerable, in the next summer.

We have hitherto applied to no foreign power.

We are using the utmost industry in endeavouring to make salt-petre, and with daily increasing success.

Our artificers are also every where busy in fabricating small arms, casting cannon, &c.

Yet both arms and ammunition are much wanted. Any merchants, who would venture to send ships, laden with those articles, might make great profit; such is the demand in every colony, and such generous prices are and will be given;

of which, and of the manner of conducting such a voyage, the bearer, Mr. Story, can more fully inform you.

And whoever brings in those articles, is allowed to carry off the value in provisions, to our West Indies, where they will probably fetch a very high price, the general exportation from North America being stopped.

This you will see more particularly in a printed resolution of the congress.

We are in great want of good engineers, and wish you could engage and send us two able ones, in time for the next campaign, one acquainted with field service, sieges, &c. and the other with fortifying of sea-ports.

They will, if well recommended, be made very welcome, and have honourable appointments, besides the expenses of their voyage hither, in which Mr. Story can also advise them.

As what we now request of you, besides taking up your time, may put you to some expense, we send you, for the present, enclosed, a bill for one hundred pounds sterling, to defray such expenses, and desire you to be assured that your services will be considered, and honourably rewarded by the congress.

We desire, also, that you would take the trouble of receiving from Arthur Lee esquire, agent for the congress in England, such letters as may be sent by him to your care, and of forwarding them to us with your dispatches.

When you have occasion to write to him to inform him of any thing, which it may be of importance that our friends there should be acquainted with, please to send your letters to him, under cover, directed to Mr. Alderman Lee, merchant, on Tower Hill, London:

and do not send it by post, but by some trusty skipper, or other prudent person, who will deliver it with his own hand. And when you send to us, if you have not a direct safe opportunity, we recommend sending by way of St. Eustatia, to the care of Messrs. Robert and Cornelius Stevenson, merchants there, who will forward your dispatches to me.

With sincere and great esteem and respect, I am, Sir, your most obedient, humble servant.

B. Franklin.

Mons. Dumas.
Philadelphia Dec. 12. 1775.

We the underwritten, appointed by the american congress a committee of foreign correspondence having perused the above Letter, Written at our Request, do approve and confirm the same.

(Signed) John Dickinson
John Jay


353 posted on 04/11/2011 5:12:15 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1
Idee sur le gouvernment et la royauté : Idea On The government & Kingship
354 posted on 04/11/2011 5:26:54 PM PDT by patlin (Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican: "I didn't leave the Democrat Party, they left me")
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To: patlin

http://www.franklinpapers.org/franklin/framedVolumes.jsp


355 posted on 04/11/2011 6:09:06 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1; STARWISE; rxsid; Red Steel; edge919; Spaulding; Danae; Fred Nerks; wintertime; ...
Golden Square Dec 25 1777 David Hartley to B Franklin

"Perhaps a friend might suggest a proposition to lay a foundation in Good will even previous to preliminaries, viz. that whenever or whatever terms are finally settled it shall be understood that the two Countries shall always be mutually naturalized, that every person born in either Country shall be considered as a natural born Subject throughout Great Britain and America as before the troubles."

Prior to the revolution, those born in America were "naturalized" natural born subjects? Who knew...

Vattel: § 214. Naturalization.(58)

... Finally, there are states, as, for instance, England, where the single circumstance of being born in the country naturalizes the children of a foreigner.

This leaves but one conclusion which I have stated repeatedly, the colonies were independent from England and thus the laws of the colonies were wholly separate from those of England. The people were citizens of the colonies, while also being recognized by the Sovereign King as his subjects. This is also why the laws differed so much from colony to colony prior to the revolution & state to state afterwords. The King considered the American citizens as denizen subjects who had no right to representation in Parliament, just the same as those born on foreign soil were naturalized in England proper did not.

356 posted on 04/11/2011 6:58:39 PM PDT by patlin (Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican: "I didn't leave the Democrat Party, they left me")
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To: patlin

Good find, and good point patlin!


357 posted on 04/12/2011 10:56:24 AM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: bushpilot1

Thanks for posting the Franklin papers. I haven’t read those in a while.


358 posted on 04/12/2011 11:31:54 AM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: bushpilot1; Spaulding; Red Steel; devattel; patlin; BP2; El Gato; hoosiermama; null and void; ...
A view of Vattel, and his works, from across the pond:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/752680

359 posted on 04/18/2011 11:40:12 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid

Yes. I already posted this copy form Australia months ago. The cover is correct. The content is not. I have a copy of this and have verified the content to be an exact match to the Luke White edition.

I am not sure why the content was switched, but if you grab a copy of the Luke White edition you will see they are identical, which is not correct for the New York publication. My assumption is the library lost the scans of the book and inserted the information from the LW edition.


360 posted on 04/29/2011 8:43:13 PM PDT by devattel
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