Evolution fine but no apology to Darwin: Vatican

Reuters ^ | September 16, 2008 | Philip Pullella

[grey_whiskers]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican said on Tuesday the theory of evolution was compatible with the Bible but planned no posthumous apology to Charles Darwin for the cold reception it gave him 150 years ago.

Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, the Vatican's culture minister, was speaking at the announcement of a Rome conference of scientists, theologians and philosophers to be held next March marking the 150th anniversary of the publication of Darwin's "The Origin of Species".

Christian churches were long hostile to Darwin because his theory conflicted with the literal biblical account of creation.

[grey_whiskers]

Donning asbestos suit.

Admin_Moderator, note that I saved you the trouble and put this thread in Smoky Backroom *first*.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

(Spreading chum in the water, returning to surface)

Like, *PING*, folks.

Cheers!

[wideawake]

The "Vatican" didn't say.

Gianfranco Ravasi did.

This is like writing that "The Bush administration said" something about military preparedness when in reality, the secretary of Housing and Urban Development made some comments during a speech about military housing.

[Caramelgal]

Pope Pius XII described evolution as a valid scientific approach to the development of humans in 1950 and Pope John Paul reiterated that in 1996. But Ravasi said the Vatican had no intention of apologizing for earlier negative views.

"Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session," he said, adding that Darwin's theories were "never condemned by the Catholic Church nor was his book ever banned".

[Blogger]

This proves the Pope is not infallible. Evolution and the Bible are NOT compatible. Period.

[dead]

The Catholic Church has long had no opinion either way on evolution, considering it science and outside the realm of religion.

[grey_whiskers]

Do you know what ex cathedra means?

Plese, hone up on your theology before making broad brush statements.

Cheers!

[wideawake]

Pope Pius XII described evolution as a valid scientific approach to the development of humans in 1950

False.

Pope John Paul reiterated that in 1996.

John Paul said something similar to that not in his capacity as pastor but as a conference participant. His comments were not Church doctrine.

Darwin's theories were "never condemned by the Catholic Church nor was his book ever banned".

Darwin was not a Roman Catholic, and therefore the Catholic Church would not have censured him in the first place. This is Ravasi speaking to an ignorant press that has no idea how the Church works.

[Vaquero]

The Vatican said on Tuesday the theory of evolution was compatible with the Bible .

this is why I am glad to be a Catholic... the lord does work in mysterious ways.

[normy]

I think every Christian denomination needs to strip their theology or doctrines and traditions down to this simple message.

Jesus died on the cross according to the scriptures, he was buried and went to hell for your sins, and he was raised again the third day according to the scriptures. Believe that and you can have divine health, wealth, and righteousness by faith. Seek the kingdom of God and these things will be added unto you. Humble your will, intellect and emotions by fasting. Read the Psalms daily out loud. Read Isaiah 52 last 3 verses and 53 as much as you can and just humble yourself and acknowledge that you know nothing and ask God for understanding. Oh and pray the Lords Prayer.

[wideawake]

The Church has asserted the doctrine of Monogenism, which a significant number - perhaps a majority - of evolutionary biologists disagree with.

[grey_whiskers]

Try the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed for starters.

Cheers!

[Blogger]

Don’t lecture me. Yes, I do know what “ex cathedra” means. The popes have made various statements on Evolution. The last couple have come down with the idea that it isn’t incompatible with Scripture. Ex Cathedra is a doctrine of recent origin that the Pope declared about himself in 1870 after an apparition of Mary stated it to be so. Frankly, it is a nonsensical doctrine since when the Pope speaks, regardless if he is doing it “ex cathedra” or not, people listen. Such is the case with any human being. The Bible says let your yea be yea and your nay be nay. It doesn’t give anyone, even bishops, the right to say something that could be false and then excuse it with some doctrine that was not found in the Bible and was voted on by the ones claiming the doctrine for themselves. When the bishops are speaking, as in this case (or Archbishop), they are doing so with the authority of the church behind them. And, they are wrong. Evolution is not, nor will it ever be, compatible with Scripture. You can have one or the other but not both.

[Caramelgal]

False.

John Paul said something similar to that not in his capacity as pastor but as a conference participant. His comments were not Church doctrine.

It is true that the Roman Catholic Church did not nor has it ever made it Doctrine for Catholics to believe in evolution but neither has it condemned it as a legitimate scientific field of study or forbade Catholics from studying it or accepting the science of evolution as long as Catholics did not as part of that acceptance, reject the Church’s teaching on the origins of the soul and other doctrines of faith.

Pope Pius XII's encyclical Humani Generis in 1950 stated:

"The Church does not forbid that...research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter."

The question of the origin of man's body from pre-existing and living matter is a legitimate matter of inquiry for natural science. Catholics are free to form their own opinions, but they should do so cautiously; they should not confuse fact with conjecture, and they should respect the Church's right to define matters touching on Revelation. Catholics must believe, however, that the human soul was created immediately by God. Since the soul is a spiritual substance it is not brought into being through transformation of matter, but directly by God, whence the special uniqueness of each person.

Pope John Paul II said much the same thing:

"...new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis."

John Paul II, 1996 in an October 22, 1996, address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II updated the Church's position to accept evolution of the human body:

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points....Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies -- which was neither planned nor sought -- constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

In the same address, Pope John Paul II rejected any theory of evolution that provides a materialistic explanation for the human soul:

"Theories of evolution which, because of the philosophies which inspire them, regard the spirit either as emerging from the forces of living matter, or as a simple epiphenomenon of that matter, are incompatible with the truth about man."

Darwin was not a Roman Catholic, and therefore the Catholic Church would not have censured him in the first place. This is Ravasi speaking to an ignorant press that has no idea how the Church works.

The Catholic Church does not “censure” non-Catholics but has made condemnations regarding certain books and movies over the years, even those produced by non-Catholics, and has “banned” them for being unacceptable for Catholics.

[Varda]

This is a British paper which of course makes things up. The Vatican never had a negative reaction to Darwin.

[Stayfree]

The Catholic Church has long had no opinion either way on CRACKPOT IDEAS SUCH AS evolution, considering it science and outside the realm of religion.

[Varda]

Monogenism is exactly what the evolutionary biologists believe. Our species has a single source. The Church opposes polygenism which is the idea that the races have different sources (an Adam/Eve for each race). I don’t think any scientist has defended that idea since the 19th century.

[Raymann]

So the alternative is a strict biblical interpretation? That the earth and man were created in 7 days only a few thousand years ago?

If you want to compare that with evolution over what makes more sense then I’m sorry but evolution wins every time.

[Coyoteman]

So the alternative is a strict biblical interpretation? That the earth and man were created in 7 days only a few thousand years ago?

If you want to compare that with evolution over what makes more sense then I’m sorry but evolution wins every time.

And then there's that "global flood" nonsense. Such tall tales, disproved 100+ different ways, inspire little confidence.

[dmz]

Evolution and the Bible are NOT compatible. Period.

Thanks for clearing that up for us, blogger. I guess we should consider this the definitive word on the subject because you said so.

But, first, let me try something.

Evolution and the Bible ARE compatible. Period.

See how easy that was?