Utah mall gunman was Srebenica survivor

cnn.com ^ | 12/15/07 | cnn

[Serb29]

CERSKA, Bosnia (Reuters) -- The 18-year-old gunman who shot five people to death in a Salt Lake City, Utah, shopping mall was a survivor of the siege that ended in the Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslims in Bosnia's 1992-95 war, a cousin said on Wednesday. Sulejman Talovic, who was killed by police after Monday's shooting spree in which he also wounded four people, fled his village with his family during the Bosnia war to Srebrenica, a U.N.-protected enclave, Redzo Talovic said." "They spent two years in the town, during which Bosnian Serb forces besieged the enclave and Talovic's grandfather was killed by shellfire, Redzo Talovic said. When the Bosnian Serbs overran the town in 1995, taking away and massacring some 8,000 Muslim men and boys, Talovic and his mother were evacuated by the United Nations and later reunited with his father, Redzo Talovic said. "They were a good, quiet family, and I remember that he was a nice kid when he was 4 or 5, maybe a little bit playful," he said, standing in front of the burned-out shell of the Talovic family home in the village of Talovici, eastern Bosnia.

[Izzy Dunne]

Notice how they imply, but don't really say, he's a Muslim.

[MeanWestTexan]

Parable of the Scorpian and the Frog.

"Why did you sting me? We'll both die now" asks the frog as both he and the scorpian sink into the river.

"Because I'm a scorpian," replies the scorpian.

[MinstrelBoy]

Boo hoo!

[txflake]

Do we know if he shaved himself before he left?

[Tarpon]

His uncle is a Muslim cleric. I wonder what nonsense he filled his head with?

[GovernmentShrinker]

It would probably be beneficial -- for the benefit of the many freepers who are currently crying "MSM conspiracy" every time they see an article about this incident that doesn't mention that the kid was Muslim -- that the Serbs who massacred the Bosnian Muslims were "Christians". Funny how the MSM is protecting the sensibilities of American Christians by not associating their religion with these massacres.

[MissEdie]

Ain't it the truth, I have sympathy for the victims of this animal, not him.

[AIM-54]

Ah, the old 'perpetrator is a victim' schlock from CNN again.

disgusting.

Hey CNN, How about some in-depth bios on his murder victims?

[albie]

This is what we all should have expected from the MSM. Victims be damned. This "poor" guy blah, blah, blah. It makes my skin crawl to read reports like this. This is not a "free speech" issue with the ying yang that wrote this tripe! It's anti-American and (as much as I hate seeing this word over and over) treasonist! If this were a Mormon or a Baptist that shot up a mall the headlines would read "MURDERER IS A CHRISTIAN"!

[GovernmentShrinker]

Notice how they don't even bother to imply, much less really say, that the Serbs who massacred Bosnian Muslims were Christians.

[RegulatorCountry]

"the Serbs who massacred the Bosnian Muslims were "Christians". Funny how the MSM is protecting the sensibilities of American Christians by not associating their religion with these massacres."

Croats and Bosnian Muslims were at war with each other in Bosnia. Serbs and Albanian Muslims were at war with each other in Kosovo. You're confusing the two. And, you're also swallowing a fair amount of propaganda, as far as any reports about "massacres." People were killed, yes. War is like that. I don't believe any mass graves were ever found, though, to justify use of the word massacre.

[DBrow]

If the story is supposed to make me feel sympathy for the kid and the series of evil choices he made, it didn't work.

If his being a survivor in any way explains his actions, we must quickly find the other survivors and start watching them, or deport them.

[Logophile]

Utah mall gunman was Srebenica survivor

Now he is a dead murderer.

[xcamel]

So what, frankly.. they already setting up for PTSD defense?

[Snoopers-868th]

O.K. now I know the truth. The fault lays with his early environment and this is really the greedy Americans' fault. He can be excused and we must quit profiling these poor Muslims and their religion of peace.

[Mr.Smorch]

We tried to help the Bosniaks, and this is the thanks we got in return, from one survivor. If there had been one less survivor, five innocent Americans would be alive today. I don't think you have to be a card-carrying member of the political feverswamps to believe that this was, more than likely, an attack by a committed jihadi against the infidels.

I'm also wondering when the dinosaur media gets around to blaming this on our great President. How one poor innocent muslim was driven to the extremems by W's Iraq policy.

[ANGGAPO]

A Muslim terrorist no doubt. Will there be more?

[ANGGAPO]

A Muslim terrorist no doubt. Will there be more?

[pipecorp]

If the un hadn't screwed up and saved this muslim, 5 Americans would still be alive today.

[zavvone]

"They were a good, quiet family, and I remember that he was a nice kid when he was 4 or 5, maybe a little bit playful," he said, standing in front of the burned-out shell of the Talovic family home in the village of Talovici, eastern Bosni"

You mean they have already interviewed someone from the town this POS used to live in over 10 years ago...but not a peep about the innocent victims that were "murdered" by this animal!!

CNN - business as usual!!

[kittymyrib]

"Notice how they don't even bother to imply, much less really say, that the Serbs who massacred Bosnian Muslims were Christians."

Christians have every right to defend their homes and families from being taken over by pagan squatters who have no business in their country. I hope you don't think that millions of Christians will just sit idly by if that time ever comes in the USA. There will be blood flowing in every street as Christians defend this land from those who would take it over. You can depend on that.

[zimdog]

your post makes you sound like you're defending "ethnic cleansing"

just so you know ...

[El Laton Caliente]

"Bosnian Serbs overran the town in 1995, taking away and massacring some 8,000 Muslim men and boys"
____________________________________________________
Wasn't this later discredited?

[zimdog]

Croats and Bosnian Muslims were at war with each other in Bosnia. Serbs and Albanian Muslims were at war with each other in Kosovo. You're confusing the two.

Perhaps you should check again.

[Serb29]

I don't believe his being a survivor explains anything whatsoever. He lived here for five years before this happened. Although living through something like that must've been terrible, and probably does leave some permanent scars, it still wouldn't explain this. Do veterans of war go on killing rampages when they return? Absolutely not. But it did probably leave him susceptible to militant Muslim influences in his life. Do all Bosnian-war refugees go on killing sprees? Of all these mall incidences have any had "Bosnian from Srebenica" tied to them? Nope....but they are all Muslim. I've mentioned in a couple posts the Muslim wacko from Rockford a few months back. They seem to like malls....a lot. And the fact that they both went to malls ties a link and leads me to think the first inspired the other.

http://wcco.com/topstories/topstories_story_342121846.html

These are some updates on that particular story since then:

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2593
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/local_story_009220544.html

...next scheduled court date is 2/23, where trial date will be announced.

...curious to see how he tries to prove he's not guilty...I'll keep everyone posted. Meanwhile, a tip to all...shop online.

[Serb29]

"your post makes you sound like you're defending ethnic cleansing"

Really? How do you figure? Serbs have not ethnically cleansed anyone...EVER. In Bosnia there was a hidden agenda...learn about Alija Izetbegovic:

http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/ihralija1.htm

In Kosovo...well, Serbia has the unfortunate luck of being the first country in the way of Europe for Muslims. What is the only Muslim country (so far) in Europe? Albania. And what is the country first in line if you were to march from Albania into the heart of Europe? Serbia. To add to that we had the "bad guy" target on us already, so propaganda was easy as pie.

http://cyberjournal.org/cj/show_archives/?id=391&batch=16&lists=newslog

Who cleansed what?

http://www.sense-agency.com/en/stream.php?sta=3&pid=8781&kat=3

[eleni121]

Actually the ethnic cleansing has been happening against the Christian Serbs---by the muslims.

Just so you know.

[eleni121]

You are very confused about basic facts.

Just so you know.

[eleni121]

You are right...It was discredited.

Here is quite excellent overview of this act of terror as juxtaposed by what happened in Bosnia.

http://www.aina.org/news/20070215143317.htm

[zimdog]

The article in question mentions the extra-judicial killing of 2500 people.

I have seen enough of massacre-denying in previous Balkan threads to know where this is going. Perhaps you actually believe no that murders were committed or perhaps you don't care that the "wrong" people were killed. I don't want to keep company with people who fall into either of those camps. Good day.

[Serb29]

I'm sorry, but war involves death. Many people were killed, and I do feel terrible about that. The only war I approve of is one to defend your family and country. If you'd like my opinion on the Yugoslav civil war, it's this:

I wish it never happened. We are now all economically struggling nations searching desperately for some kind of an identity. Now it's all segmented....Bosnian Serbs, Serb-Croats, etc... We still live in each others' lands so what was the problem? We did much better as a whole, and I still consider Bosnians and Croats to be my brothers and sisters (even though the majority of them don't feel the same about me). I was born a Christian Yugoslav, not a Serbian. Our govt. back then was a mess (and still is) and hidden agendas played into it, but I believe had we stuck together instead of pointing fingers at each other, we would have eventually solved our differences and wouldn't be in this current mess. I'm only 28, and still trying to educate myself on politics (and when I'm 60, probably still will)...I know there's more to it, there always is. But sometimes simplifying matters makes things clearer, and I feel this is one of those times. We were brothers, and should have stayed that way.

[oilfieldtrash]

I knew at the end of the day Serbs would be the blame for this psychotic nut's actions.

[eleni121]

The masacre deniers are those who neglect the thousands of Serbs killed brutally by Muslims and Croats in the civil war.

One of those deniers is you...

[GovernmentShrinker]

I am not confused. The mass murder of Bosnian Muslims at Srebrenica was carried out by Bosnian Serbs who are overwhelmingly Orthodox Christians.

[Serb29]

But there's tons of evidence since the war that argues that. Serbs didn't wake up one day and decide to go on a killing spree. Yugoslavia was unified, and something separated it. That something wasn't just Milosevic. He reacted to something. As for people being mistreated, that's total BS. They continue to live in each other's regions peacefully to this day. It wasn't for a better life, because that most certainly doesn't happen from taking one fairly strong country and breaking it up into little pieces. Christians don't kill for their religion, not unless defending it. I fear you made your decision long ago, and any info that surfaced from that time on was automatically jargon to you.

[ozzymandus]

Oh, I get it. Christianity is to blame, right? Do you live in Bizzaroworld?

[Serb29]

I heard from many initially that he was a Serb, due to the last name. Then I was relieved to hear he wasn't. And what do they end up describing him as? Not just a Bosnian, not a possible radical Muslim...a Srebenica survivor. So what happened...for 5 years he strategized his revenge on being a victim of war? Please. If anything, seeing what he saw, the last thing he would want is more bloodshed in his life, let alone bloodshed done by his own hand. At this rate, Serbia will one day cease to exist. Then who will we blame?

[philetus]

Notice how they don't even bother to imply, much less really say, that the Serbs who massacred Bosnian Muslims were Christians."

Saying you're a Christian and being one are two different things.

[lqclamar]

In Kosovo...well, Serbia has the unfortunate luck of being the first country in the way of Europe for Muslims. What is the only Muslim country (so far) in Europe? Albania. And what is the country first in line if you were to march from Albania into the heart of Europe? Serbia. To add to that we had the "bad guy" target on us already, so propaganda was easy as pie.

Bingo. Even more telling is to look back across the history of the Balkans and see what side the mahometans were on. Practically every single time a conquering army marched through there they sided with the invaders against the Serbs. You wouldn't know it today since the media covers it up and constantly sympathizes with the jihadis, but here's the flag that the Balkan muslims flew during World War II:

In fact there are probably muslim Waffen-SS men in the Balkans who are alive today, having never been brought to justice after the war.

[WLR]

How about:

Muslim Terrorist attacks American Christians murdering them at Mall.

Liberals explain attacker only seeking redress of grievances and only targeting suspected Christians.

All is ok...


W

[lqclamar]

Not just during the Civil War - the muslims have been brutally murdering Christians in the Balkans for 600 years. This is the patch they were wearing when they did it in the 1940's:

[zimdog]

These are wise words from someone so young.

However, it is troubling that you can espouse such an enlightened philosophy for post-Communist Yugoslavia and still make blunt statements like: "Serbs have not ethnically cleansed anyone...EVER."

But again, you're young. And history, of all disciplines, takes time to understand.

Best,

Zimdog

[zimdog]

The masacre deniers are those who neglect the thousands of Serbs killed brutally by Muslims and Croats in the civil war.

One of those deniers is you...

No. In English, "massacre denier" refers to someone who denies that a massacre or massacres took place. That is not me. However, you seem to be suggesting that the killing of 2500 people in Srebrenica was not a massacre.

Good day.

[GovernmentShrinker]

You missed my point. The MSM often omits religious labelling when describing horrible crimes committed by an individual or group. It's not just when the criminals are Muslim or non-Christian, as many people here were claiming after reading a few MSM articles which didn't mention that the Utah shooter was a Muslim. Christianity was not to blame for the Srebrenica massacre, and it's unlikely (and certainly unconfirmed) that Islam was a significant factor in the Utah mall shooting. In many cases, the MSM isn't being "PC" by omitting religious labelling, but rather is avoiding the implication that a particular religion's beliefs are to blame, when there's no evidence to support that.

[zimdog]

You wouldn't know it today since the media covers it up and constantly sympathizes with the jihadis, but here's the flag that the Balkan muslims flew during World War II:

As your other posts have indicated, the image is not a "flag that the Balkan muslims flew during World War II." It is the insignia of the 13th Waffen-SS Division. There is clearly a difference between 21,000 Nazi soldiers and a region's entire population.

[GovernmentShrinker]

My comment wasn't meant to assess the relative guilt of the various groups involved in the war in Bosnia/Serbia/Croatia. I have no preconceived notions about whether or not the events at Srebrenica were justifiable based on previous actions of the victim group -- it's not a subject that I'm knowledgeable about or particularly interested in.

I was only noting that MSM aren't routinely selective in omitting religious affiliations of people who commit violent acts. When there is no evident connection between the religious beliefs and the acts, they often choose to omit the religious affiliation, to avoid the implication that a certain religion's beliefs are responsible. There have been several threads running on FR full of people claiming that MSM articles which omitted the fact that the Utah shooter was a Muslim, are proof that the MSM is selectively biased towards Muslims. This CNN article, which omits the religion from the description of the Christian people who killed thousands of Bosnian Mulsims, is an example.

[lqclamar]

It is the insignia of the 13th Waffen-SS Division.

...which was recruited by al-Husseini and Himmler as an all-muslim Balkan Nazi division. It's clear what side the muslims took in WWII. To them it was just another opportunity to shoot Serbs and participate in the extermination of the Jews.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

All I will say on this is, God don't like ugly, folks.