Posted on 06/15/2005 8:33:35 AM PDT by george wythe
Terri Schiavo did not suffer any trauma before her 1990 collapse and her brain was about half of normal size when she died, according to results released Wednesday of an autopsy conducted on the severely brain-damaged woman.
Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.
He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.
(Excerpt) Read more at tuscaloosanews.com ...
If she hadn't suffered a heart attack as hubby said, then WHAT caused the initial problem. HUMMMMM.
good question. Who is the pathologist?
nick
So? You could say the same of Howard Dean. That doesn't mean it'd be right to starve him to death.
I have less confidence in this report than I do in the Michael Jackson jury's ruling.
At least the trial was conducted in the open, and more than one person examined the evidence.
I believe it was the diet pills she was taking at the time.
Any medical persons explain how it is her brain shrank to half the size...and if she had been given therapy earlier could that have been avoided?
I believe at one point he said that she hadn't had a heart attack. I forget the details, but I think that has been debunked.
Since there was no independent review of medical records, no independent witness at the autopsy, no independent medical examination, is it any wonder that the autopsy findings support having removed the feeding tube? Let's be realistic, here. Did anyone really expect anything else? We hoped, but was there any real expectation of anything else?
The medical examiner, Jon Thogmartin, said Wednesday that no trauma was noted on any of the numerous exams in the days after, weeks after or months after the collapse. No evidence of strangulation was found and her heart was normal. She died of "marked dehydration," she did not starve to death, Thogmartin said. He said she suffered no neglect or abuse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack.Thogmartin said it is possible that caffeine contributed to her collapse because she drank up to one gram of caffeine daily, which was because of the amount of tea she consumed. He said that an eating disorder may not have caused her collapse.
The examiner said that Schiavo got severe osteoporosis after her collapse. He said her bones became "palpably soft" after the collapse.
Thogmartin said her brain was "profoundly atrophied" -- and that the damage was "irreversable." He also said, "The vision centers of her brain were dead" -- meaning she was blind. He said no amount of therapy could have reversed her condition.
Yes it does.
Pull the plug on Howie.
SO9
Huh?
OK, so apart from being dehydrated to death... she wasn't abused or neglected.
"Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
Every Republican judge who does not agree with the Schindlers' side of the story is a member of the conspiracy.
Every Republican office holder who does not agree with the Schindlers' side of the story is a member of the conspiracy.
Every medical professional who does not agree with the Schindler's side of the story is a member of the conspiracy.
And most Democrats are part of the conspiracy.
Even Jeb Bush might have been a member of the conspiracy; otherwise, why did he refuse to use his executive power to "save" Terri?
Since the Pathologist was a State Employee, ie. he worked for Jeb Bush, not for the Judge or the local authorities or the husband, it seems obvious that it is biased to make her look far more viable than she actually was.
SO9
He said she suffered no neglect or abuse.
Obviously he means there is NOTHING wrong with not feeding or giving a drink to a human being.
I agree, If they wanted to put this controversy to rest, they should have welcomed independent oversight.
Whatever their findings are it's still no excuse to dehydrate a dependent adult to death.
You know what he meant. He didn't find any traces of *illegal* neglect or abuse, things not consistent with a standard removal of a feeding tube.
Stands to reason that death by dehydration would result in significant shrinkage.
I don't need irony to be a sledge hammer in order to be struck by it.
Dan
Did I say that? Seems like you're over reacting to my statement. Hmmm, rereading my comments, I don't see conspiracy in it anywhere.
So according to you, we should starve every blind person to death how doesn't have "quality of live" in your learned opinion?
The ME said that he would like to clarify the often confused terms, heart attack and cardiac arrest.
If by heart attack is meant myocardial infarction, then Terri Schiavo did not suffer a heart attack.
Instead, Terri's heart stopped. A cardiac arrest would be a better description, since it simply means that the heart stopped.
I wonder if the good doc performed a full body scan of Terri. There were multiple trauma sites on the 1992 scan. How can he tell she couldn't swallow? Nurses testified that Terri could swallow, but was never allowed to be tested. What a bunch of crap. This guy may be a state employee, but he lives in Pinellas Co., and that is where his true masters live. None of what he found justified killing this woman. There are kids in public school right now who are just as bad off, and no one is trying to kill them....yet....
Judging from the title, I think they may have autopsied Nacy Pelosi by mistake.
Additionally, any trace of drugs given at a certain point would have been metabolized and not detectable.
Conveniently enough, there is no way to verify these findings because she was cremated so quickly after the autopsy. And no one else but her "loving" husband had ever heard her mention cremation. Odd, considering she was a very devout Catholic. (sorry, was THAT a conspiracy theory there?)
The human body is mostly water. Weighing a brain after severe dehydration and compairing the results to a normal brain is ridiculous.
Does it really matter?
pre-determined "autopsy" ping
Actually the ME did not and can not answer the primary questions at hand but I knew that a long time ago. Those questions are what caused a healthy young girls heart to stop and was she minimally conscious.
My vote: no confidence.
"........sure plays a mean pin ball...."
True enough. Any drugs administered years ago would no longer be present in the body.
Doesn't change his findings - no evidence of abuse. That doesn't prove there wasn't any (try and prove a negative), only that there's no *evidence* of abuse.
I fail to see how this autopsy justifies Euthanasia.
I don't know - I haven't read the report and this excerpt doesn't say.
The ME is not part of the Schindlers' team or the Schiavo team. He is independent with respect to those camps. He did his job in a professional manner, and several tests were conducted on Terri's remains by professionals outside his office.
Why are you impugning his integrity without any proof that the gentleman and his staff are biased?
The husband and the doctors NEVER said it was heart attack. Get the facts. Heart attacks are caused by arterial blockages leading to the heart. What Schiavo had was a heart arrythmia caused by her Bulimia that caused her heart to either stop beating or to beat randomly in such a way that oxygenated blood wasnt being pumped to her brain. Her condition was caused by screwed up body chemistry. What Schiavo has usually leads to sudden death when an individual drops unconscious and their heart no longer beats. She was one of the "lucky" ones who was rescesitated, however, not before she lost most brain functions.
"Yes it does.
Pull the plug on Howie."
No way! He's FAR more detrimental to the Dems as a living person.
Wow, pointing out that there wasn't independent review is impugning his integrity? Rather a low bar you're setting there, isn't it? Questioning the results would really send you over the edge ...
The parts of her brain that were oxygen deprived when her heart stopped beating died. Over time the dead tissue rots away and is replaced by spinal fluid. You cant rehabilitate those parts of the brain that are dead any more than you can rehabilat an arm or leg that is dead because it didnt get oxygenated blood. Dead is dead except for the Resurrection.
Ok conspiracy idiots, the report is in, now SHUT UP!!!
Can you spell "coverup"? Of course, earlier xrays of broken bones indicate "no trauma" in Florida.
I presume you are being sarcastic but its best not to do that here. Too many of the "brain numbed" will believe you are being serious.
That said, the autopsy is interesting, but how does the ME separate out the damage done by being starved/dehydrated to death from damage present prior to same? I don't think there is a foolproof way to do that.
Dream on. They're just getting started.
THE STATE OF FLORIDA AGAIN IS AN EMBARRASMENT
And how much of that shrinkage was due to dehydration? I thought the "expert opinion" was that she only had 20% of her brain.
A person can function with half their brain. Maybe not as well as before, but they can function. However they need to have therapy and training, which Terri was supposed to get with the settlement money, but never did.
Of course, you're right. Let's get back to examining the Downing Street Memo, shall we?
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