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Evidence Disproving Evolution
myself | 10/11/02 | gore3000

Posted on 10/11/2002 9:02:01 PM PDT by gore3000

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To: AndrewC
My "Darwininian nonsense"? How do you figure? 150 years ago Charles Darwin saw some little birdies and tried to figure out how they got that way. His theory has undergone constant revision ever since. Progress of science, rah rah rah.

Ol' Chuck might not even recognise the theory any more, but his initial insight laid the groundwork for a structure relating all life on this planet. Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species sound familiar? Without the theory of common descent, it hardly seems worth the effort.

And where exactly have I tap-danced? On the whale question? I'll state for the record: I don't have an answer for your concerns regarding whale evolution. Of course, that doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. Just that I don't know it.

You have not offered an alternative theory that I have seen. Your alternatives are either small modifications of current evolutionary theory, or a rehash of critiques of Darwin. As vehemently as you protest, there must be something revolutionary squirreled away inside your head.
601 posted on 10/15/2002 7:04:50 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: PatrickHenry
End of session placemarker.

Pleasant dreams.


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602 posted on 10/15/2002 7:05:46 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Condorman
I'll state for the record: I don't have an answer for your concerns regarding whale evolution. Of course, that doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. Just that I don't know it.

Of course there is an explanation. You just won't admit it. The answer is --- the Pakicetus is not the ancestor of the whale. But the implications of that put into jeopardy much of what has been touted as prima facie evidence of Darwinian evolution.

603 posted on 10/15/2002 7:10:54 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Of course there is an explanation. You just won't admit it. The answer is --- the Pakicetus is not the ancestor of the whale.

Could be. When dealing with prehistoric animals, new fossils and evidence may indicate minor alterations to the current theoretical lines of descent. Scientific theories are often subject to revision. Newton to Einstein to Hawking and all that.

Now, while you've been focusing on minutia, the larger question is, so what?

604 posted on 10/15/2002 7:28:42 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Condorman
Now, while you've been focusing on minutia, the larger question is, so what?

Some evidence used to support Darwinian evolution, in fact a highly regarded piece of evidence, lies in ruin. It calls into question the validity of the modelling done in the constructing the trees of relatedness using the techniques which provided the trees for the mesonychus and the pakicetus. And it shows the necessity of something akin to the double blind in the field of fossil analysis.

Your answer also demonstrates what many have been pointing out for so long. That Darwinism is nothing but a "religious" viewpoint, separate from the question of evolution.

605 posted on 10/15/2002 7:45:19 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Some evidence used to support Darwinian evolution, in fact a highly regarded piece of evidence, lies in ruin.

So they connected the dots in the wrong order. Or included a dot in a series where it didn't fit. It happens. Someone evenutally notices and fixes it. This could be your shot. Publish your results and get your discovery footnoted somewhere.

Just don't kid yourself; the evidence still exists. The fossils are still standing. If memory serves there have been a few incidents where the wrong head was attached to a skeleton. The mistakes are found and corrected. So what? None of these concerns are foreign to scientific inquiry, and none support the contention that the general theory of common descent, driven by variation and natural selection, is crumbling like a house of cards.

606 posted on 10/15/2002 8:07:48 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: AndrewC
That is because [gore3000], as you, did not/could not answer a straight forward question.

I just wanted to point out that this is the first time I can recall seeing someone from your side of the school yard publicly criticize gore3000. Call it wishful thinking, but maybe we all CAN just get along... ;^)

607 posted on 10/15/2002 8:32:02 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Condorman
So they connected the dots in the wrong order.

That is their main job and supposedly this is one of the showpieces demonstrating Darwinian evolution. Not only were the dots connected in the wrong order, the dots were not even "connected". But that is not really the problem. The problem is their inability to step back and ponder where they have gone wrong.

608 posted on 10/15/2002 9:03:32 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Condorman
Call it wishful thinking, but maybe we all CAN just get along... ;^)

Yes that is entirely possible. But understand my question was not to make anyone the topic of discussion. My question went to the analysis of data. Some people do not answer questions knowing full well that the intent is to embroil them in a defense of themselves rather than to develop the discussion on the topic at hand.

609 posted on 10/15/2002 9:13:21 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: gore3000
Nope. It shows that you are incapable of admitting when you are wrong, that you often have little or no idea of that which you expound upon and that you will act in a nasty and venemous fashion when these foibles are noted. As I pointed out before, your advent on these threads lowered the level of discourse considerably.
610 posted on 10/16/2002 2:47:11 AM PDT by Junior
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To: gore3000
The point is that paleontology is not a science, it is absolute garbage.

And you draw this conclusion because you've studied paleontology and its methods? Hell, you probably know as much about paleontology as you do about math and geometry.

611 posted on 10/16/2002 2:50:12 AM PDT by Junior
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To: AndrewC
How can a revision of the lineage of a single group of animals spell the death of evolution? Horse evolution underwent a similar revision, with the results supporting evolution. I'm certain that when whale descent finally shakes itself out the results will be similar.
612 posted on 10/16/2002 3:01:17 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Condorman
Call it wishful thinking, but maybe we all CAN just get along... ;^)

Most of the discussions between the creos and evos are typically semi-civil -- with the notable exception of g3k.

613 posted on 10/16/2002 3:10:02 AM PDT by Junior
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To: AndrewC
The problem is their inability to step back and ponder where they have gone wrong.

Believe me, there is some young, upstart paleontologist wanting to make a name for himself that is pondering this whale of a problem even as we speak.

614 posted on 10/16/2002 3:12:29 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior
Believe me, there is some young, upstart paleontologist wanting to make a name for himself that is pondering this whale of a problem even as we speak

Most likely true. But that paleontologist will need the help of "chemistry". That is what originally turned the boneheads on to the hoofed creatures instead of Darwin's bear. New DNA studies might be able to provide a time range for the whale/hippo split.

615 posted on 10/16/2002 7:09:32 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Junior; VadeRetro; longshadow; general_re; Piltdown_Woman; ThinkPlease
Another interesting link. This is an exchange of emails between an evolutionist (who also seems to be an atheist) and a creationist. Classic creationist statements. A ton of interesting links are given to the creationist. Well worth a look. HERE.
616 posted on 10/16/2002 7:19:10 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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Comment #617 Removed by Moderator

To: AndrewC
I wrote: Do you even deny that Eohippus got larger and became the horse?

You wrote: Absolutely. The eohippus was dead long before there was a horse. But I'm not talking about the horse nor the eohippus. I am talking about where the Pakicetus fits into the DNA tree. Are you willing to answer the question?

I'm not familiar with Pakicetus, and thus have no opinion on your position on same. But since you make the strong claim that evolution is impossible, any evolution disproves your "theory." You are of course familiar with eohippus.

Yes, I agree that "eohippus was dead long before there was a horse," for the trivial reason that once the animal grew to where it is called the horse it is no longer called eohippus. But the eohippus: 1) got much larger over time in a well-represented series of fossils; and 2)eventually evolved into the horse.

You obviously deny #2 above. Do you also deny #1? (That eohippus grew several-fold?) Or is it that the little eohippi were killed first by the flood?

618 posted on 10/16/2002 8:02:28 AM PDT by DWPittelli
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To: Condorman
So they connected the dots in the wrong order. Or included a dot in a series where it didn't fit. It happens. Someone evenutally notices and fixes it. [snip]

Until you have enough dots, any section of the Tree of Life is subject to revision. That doesn't change the big picture at all.

Just don't kid yourself; the evidence still exists. The fossils are still standing. If memory serves there have been a few incidents where the wrong head was attached to a skeleton. The mistakes are found and corrected. So what? None of these concerns are foreign to scientific inquiry, and none support the contention that the general theory of common descent, driven by variation and natural selection, is crumbling like a house of cards.

Well stated.

619 posted on 10/16/2002 8:13:19 AM PDT by balrog666
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To: Condorman
... the contention that the general theory of common descent, driven by variation and natural selection, is crumbling like a house of cards.

Not only is satanic evolution crumbling from the relentless assault of creationism science, but -- O give thanks! -- the satanic lie of astronomy is soon to crumble because of the excellent work of this fine institution:
KEPLER COLLEGE OF ASTROLOGICAL ARTS.

620 posted on 10/16/2002 8:40:14 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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