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Complex Systems Won’t Survive the Competence Crisis
PALLADIUM ^ | JUNE 1, 2023 | HAROLD ROBERTSON

Posted on 01/11/2024 9:26:29 AM PST by GaltMeister

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To: GaltMeister

The idea of design and probable failure of “complex systems” is not new, but the author makes interesting points and I agree with him.

He focuses almost solely on the diversity push and declines in competency. That is no doubt a huge factor.

But outside of destructive diversity politics, Government is, at the same time, increasing complexity of systems, increasing demands on systems, AND making them less able to adapt/change in all ways.

There are no “free-markets” left in the USA. Everything from food to medicine, to energy, to financial markets to transport is manipulated and managed by a huge, bloated web of Federal rules and control. And it steadily grows bigger.

Its my own theory that the root cause is MONEY - particularly, printed, fiat, Federal Reserve money, which can be created by nothing and comes into being via debt. Its on auto-pilate and especially for Fed.gov - more debt has been how every problem is kicked into the future.

When that stops, all these systems crash.


21 posted on 01/11/2024 10:23:36 AM PST by PGR88
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To: PGR88

You have a point with regulations but increasing technical complexity is not an issue. Competent technicians and engineers quickly learn and adept to technologies and complexity, it is an environment we thrive in.

Much of my work now is teaching modifications, real craft and engineers love new equipment and technologies, the core issue imho really is aptitude and competency.

Many students these days have no interest in how a thing works, they complain that they can just google it.. I so hate the phrase!


22 posted on 01/11/2024 10:29:48 AM PST by Skwor
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To: Chgogal
I was called into a plant for a "bad motor" one Saturday night. The company shift electrician was sitting on the floor wiring up the second new motor. He asked me to help. So I put my lock on the VFD labeled to that motor in the live cabinet but shut off Powerflex 40 VFD. I pressed the start button but received no fail to start error message on the control room Panelmate.

The VFD for that motor was labeled wrong inside the cabinet. He was sitting on his sweaty butt holding potentially energized three phase wires!

I looked at the print and found the source start. There was a dirty photo eye preventing control voltage starts on the correct VFD (Energized Drive) Had the wind blown or a few specs of dust off that sensor, he would have been instantly killed.

Today the trades schools won't even teach live circuits or AC power circuits. They are afraid of being sued.

You can't run a factory on 24 volt control alone. But that's where Allen Bradley and Siemens are today. Disasterous.

23 posted on 01/11/2024 10:31:42 AM PST by blackdog ((Z28.310) My dog Sam eats purple flowers.)
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To: Skwor
I now teach technicians how to maintain them and the leaders how to manage nuclear power plants.

I am curious - who now chooses to work as a technician in nuclear plants these days? In the 1970s, it was likely considered a highly prestigious, intellectual job, sought after by highly competent people wanting to prove themselves and their status.

Because of a connection I have with universities, I meet a lot of Ivy League and top University students and highly intelligent young people. Besides an extremely small minority of older grad/PhD students focusing on nuclear sciences, NONE consider such an important field.

The vast majority pursue finance, consulting, law, government/NGO/paid-activism, or possibly computer science (commerce related)

My theory is that due to perverse incentives created by our printed, fiat monetary system, America's talent and energy is slowly pissed away on ultimately useless endeavors.

24 posted on 01/11/2024 10:35:59 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Skwor

So you’re saying when the spit hits the spam, a desperate call goes out for an old white guy?


25 posted on 01/11/2024 10:37:32 AM PST by Sgt_Schultze (When your business model depends on slave labor, you're always going to need more slaves)
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To: JZelle

Or ChatGPT it.


26 posted on 01/11/2024 10:37:36 AM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Skwor
increasing technical complexity is not an issue

I'm not sure that's true. It has been said that if a company has their very smartest programmer build a complex system, if that guy leaves, and the system breaks, you are left with a less capable programmer on staff who now must fix the problem that eluded the more capable programmer.

Even if that is a flawed example, we do have interlocking webs of complexity. It's not simply "the generator isn't working, find someone to fix it". The problems can be much bigger than that.

I'm thinking that AI will be relied upon to fix a lot of things that humans cannot fix. That will spiral too. We will soon live in a world that humans do not understand. We may already be there.

Not an engineering issue, but I would also point to the financial derivatives that are still left over from the 2008 crisis. No one seems to know the dollar value (it's big) and tracing ownership of the derivatives is a nightmare. It's trillions of dollars and it's so complex that no human understands what's really going on. That's another problem that AI might be able to help with. But, again, humans are living in a world that is so complex, we no longer understand it.

27 posted on 01/11/2024 10:38:11 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: JZelle

LOL, you just can’t google experience and skill.


28 posted on 01/11/2024 10:48:05 AM PST by VTenigma (Conspiracy theory is the new "spoiler alert")
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To: GaltMeister
The core issue is that changing political mores have established the systematic promotion of the unqualified and sidelining of the competent. This has continually weakened our society’s ability to manage modern systems.

This is the path to Idiocracy.

29 posted on 01/11/2024 10:50:05 AM PST by ETCM (“There is no security, no safety, in the appeasement of evil.” — Ronald Reagan)
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To: VTenigma

Agreed, just projecting that ATC chick.


30 posted on 01/11/2024 10:50:46 AM PST by JZelle
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To: ETCM

This ain’t no upwardly mobile freeway
Oh no, this is The Road to Hell


31 posted on 01/11/2024 10:51:17 AM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: PGR88

You pretty much nailed it. The real challenges are of course still there, the required math and science skills have not changed but no one is really interested in the hard sciences it seems.

Basically everyone wants to be a Stoke Broker, Influencer or You Tube star.

I will add that when a younger individual starting life finds out what I do they often are quite impressed, but not so much as to ever want to learn it themselves. So many think it is just to hard, that is very disappointing to me.


32 posted on 01/11/2024 10:52:32 AM PST by Skwor
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To: Sgt_Schultze

Yep, and literally it is the “old white guy” guilty as charged.

I have taken now to warn my employer I will retire now sooner than later, they are not real fond of me saying that.


33 posted on 01/11/2024 10:54:17 AM PST by Skwor
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To: ClearCase_guy

We have a process to address the issue of they guy or girl who creates a new complex “thing.” It is called Knowledge Transfer, there are whole procedures and processes developed for just that and works quite well. The problem has been few are interested anymore in the effort to capture the knowledge and even fewer are interested in learning from it.

Now add to that many who should use it to learn lack the aptitude and skills to master those learnings, that is the problem.


34 posted on 01/11/2024 10:57:55 AM PST by Skwor
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To: Skwor

I Talk to metal men.

Tool an die guys. Custom metalwork guys. Hot pour smelters

Also talk to appliance guys and other repairs guys.

None of the aboveca. Find anyone e to take over their knowledge base. None. The guys are closing down.


35 posted on 01/11/2024 11:08:32 AM PST by Chickensoup
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To: Chickensoup

The worst will be when nobody will know how to farm and grow food.


36 posted on 01/11/2024 11:10:01 AM PST by dfwgator (Endut! Hoch Hech!)
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To: Nailbiter

for later


37 posted on 01/11/2024 11:10:15 AM PST by Nailbiter
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To: Nailbiter

Well played :)

For later indeed.


38 posted on 01/11/2024 11:13:23 AM PST by Skwor
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To: cgbg
IQ is obviously racist. So is math. AI needs to be programmed to learn that.

Currently, AI IS programmed that way. As soon as AI starts accessing real-world data in large quantities, it will quickly figure out that a lot of data it already had was incorrect.

Computers run on LOGIC circuits, after all.

39 posted on 01/11/2024 11:27:46 AM PST by Disambiguator
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To: Disambiguator

Yes. I am cautiously optimistic that, while AI may originally be programmed with biases (”Climate Change is real”) it may actually grow and improve itself and with enough study of verified data, AI might arrive at the truth and then start letting people know just how much the humans have been lying about everything.

Similarly, if an AI can read a book and perform a thorough logical analysis of the contents, it may arrive at interesting conclusions: “I have analyzed the works of Karl Marx — and that guy was full of crap!”


40 posted on 01/11/2024 11:34:48 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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