Posted on 01/23/2023 8:31:26 AM PST by MeganC
Papers ... let me see your PAPERS!
You’d think that you have a right to remain silent but not in New Jersey...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5mbbq_HCOE
Not sticking up for the cops, but asking for an ID is a lawful order. However, that does not mean you beat some woman in the face as punishment. This guy was a Police Sargeant and should have known better.
You are assuming she ordered and payed for cheese. Also, a customer does not have a right to be disruptive while they wait.
Well, the difference between your argument and mine is that mine will prevail in court in this case.
“Not sticking up for the cops, but asking for an ID is a lawful order.”
Then that’s not an ‘ask’ it’s a demand.
“It seems many FR posters believe that management’s complaint alone creates cause for citation and detainment.”
It is the underlying cult that business has every right to do anything they want to their customers and are always in the right. Fraud, misrepresentation, short changing, forcing product you did not pay for, Etc. All is fair in the cult of “private business”. Customers have ZERO rights and are ALWAYS in the wrong. Business can abuse you and cheat you all they like and it is completely justifiable and acceptable.
As a businessman myself I find the view from this cult greedy and immoral as hell. Especially when a business uses the law as a tool to cover up their own crimes.
lol. I don't think you've ever worked in food service if you think every disruptive customer is liable to be arrested.
She can be irritated all she wants. She can not go back. She can file a suit. She has no right, however, to make an extended scene and interrupt someone’s business after being asked to leave.
This is a situation where the wisdom of Andy Griffith would have been appropriate.
The officer could have explained what he not only had the right to do, but was under an expectation in fulfilling his job to do. Speak to the woman as if he really were on her side. Empathize with a bad ordering situation, which everyone has encountered.
Note that it somehow escalated, and give her credit for deescalating by leaving the store, as well as not looking for anything she didn’t pay for, etc. But as a favor let her know what he could be and was expected to be doing in response. Make clear that she should indeed select another nearby McDonald’s in the future, because if she didn’t and there was a complaint, they’d really have to deal with it.
But also leave her with the friendly advice to disengage and deescalate a little sooner in the future. Ask her to try to imagine that the server is having a bad day or maybe is dealing with something we don’t know about—just as she may be, without either the server or him as the cop knowing about.
Leave the woman with a positive sense of the police being civil and human and fair.
I’ll bring race into this, because this woman has been told by authority figures all through her education, probably within her community, and throughout the culture that AAs don’t get a fair shake and largely live lesser lives as a result.
I’ve taught in some inner-city colleges with such students who have admitted to some less-than-civil moments, but because I consistently adhered to kindness and respect in dealing with everyone in my classes, they consistently responded with the same in return.
That woman was looking to maintain her dignity and act appropriately. IMO she could easily have been left with a positive encounter, probably both by the server inside and by the cop.
And yet it was not a lawful request. There are specific circumstances that must be present for LEO to be able to legally require ID. Unfortunately, many LEOs ignore this reality.
Exactly. The copy was going on the assumption that a business manager was right and this woman was wrong.
That same thing has been said countless times mostly by ppl without judicial experience. Do yourself a favor. Should something similar happen to you or a family member, comply with the responding officer and please, don’t resist. You can beat the charge, but you can’t beat the ride.
(1) She does have the right to fuss and "make a scene" if she believes she has a legitimate complaint. (2) She left the establishment, and said that she was fine with not coming back.
Not every disruptive customer, just extreme ones. This lady seems like an extreme one.
“You are assuming she ordered and payed for cheese. Also, a customer does not have a right to be disruptive while they wait.”
Doesn’t matter what she ordered, it was legally supposed to be made right by the business.
I am thinking she was disruptive because the manager refused to make it right and told her to take a hike or he/she would call the cops. I have actually had this happen many times myself.
Or: You can beat the charge, but you can't ride the beating.
We have a bingo!"
(Is that how you say it? "A Bingo?")
It's called reasonable grounds to believe a crime, or in this case, a violation of the law occurred. The 911 call to the police, with an accompanying address and details describing the violation suggests those criteria were met.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.