Posted on 07/21/2019 9:51:22 PM PDT by BenLurkin
“Going after about the space program to reduce the national debt is like getting rid of the pickles in a burger to reduce the calories.”
Not to criticize a fellow FReeper here, but I do think a lot of people have no clue as to how little money is spent on the space program, nor are they told of just how much return on that money the country gets (believe it or not, NASA was outlawed from advertising those returns back in the Watergate days, according to something I read a long time ago).
But NASA makes an easy and safe target. You’re not to be accused of ‘starving children’ or the elderly, etc. by going after NASA and people do think the spending level on them is far higher than it actually is.
So, to those who want to SERIOUSLY cut the deficit, here are some ways that will bring in or save FAR MORE MONEY than eliminating NASA’s $20B.
1. Raise the gasoline tax to the levels seen in Europe, roughly $4.00 more than what we pay now - that will bring in on the order of $500B per year.
2. Impose a 10% Value Added Tax (national sales tax) - that would be worth around $300B.
3. Revert back to the Bill Clinton tax rates, which means eliminating Bush Jr’s and Trump’s tax cuts. This has a double-benefit - not only will it bring in much more money (even with slowing the economy somewhat), it will FINALLY teach the middle-class Leftists a thing or two about tax cuts, which, now they’re convinced only help the rich. Probably good for another $300B. If the Left wants all of their great social programs, LET THEM START PAYING FOR IT.
4. Means-test Social Security - if a person is getting $100k a year in an inflation-adjusted government (or union) pension, let them learn to LIVE ON IT. I don’t care if they were told they the money went into Al Gore’s ‘Lockbox’, it did not, they were LIED TO. The money went right through the government to people long-dead who underpaid into the program for decades. There was never a ‘Lockbox’.
5. Treat Social Security and Medicare like we treat Child Support. If you have 4 kids who are doctors, let them pay for their parents and grandparents, rather than having the government point guns at young, struggling, families to pay off those people. If they’re not doctors, then have a reasonable formula for how much they will pay...and only after they’ve paid (or gone to jail for not paying) does the government step in and make up the difference.
I don’t know what #4 and #5 would bring in, but I’m fairly convinced that Social Security, at least, will not run out of money if it’s properly treated as an entitlement.
And no, none of the above will happen, as it’s much, much, easier to snipe at NASA and blame them for our Trillion Dollar deficits, even if it’s not true, by a long shot.
And if you think raising taxes will fix a spending problem you are just as much part of the problem as Congress because you are an enabler.
We have an existential spending problem. We spend the same amount (adjusted for inflation) as the entire 12 year long Apollo program every 90 days on welfare payments.
We spend every 90 days the entire moon budget for people to lay around, fornicate, do drugs and commit crime.
And you think the problem is not enough money?!?!
They de-orbited it, or it de-orbited itself?
CC
There’s money to be had from the Middle Class, they’re now getting a FREE RIDE, they contributed a FAR HIGHER percentage to the government (versus the wealthy) in the past than they do now. But if you note, my last two ‘suggestions’ are not even tax increases.
Anyway, I’m just pointing out options that actually work, in response to others who point out options that don’t work. I realize that NOTHING is going to happen until the country’s on a death spiral.
You are pointing out “solutions” that only feed the problem. Waging a tax war on the middle class is right out of the commie playbook.
You took a wrong turn, this isn’t the place to promote your communist nonsense.
Life sucks.
Actually, I was just MAKING A POINT, and you helped prove it.
Want to cut spending on the poor, the Left won’t allow it. Want to cut spending on the middle class, the middle class won’t allow it. Want to pay for the programs of the middle class, no one will allow it.
So accept it, the country will go broke. No way out.
What spending on the middle class? NASA? That is a joke. Fine, zero out the budget and you aren’t accomplishing anything.
Defense? While there is massive pork spending in defense you absolutely have to separate the real need from the pork. Besides, that is a legitimate constitutional activity, not primarily middle class pork.
Education? Nobody with two working brain cells thinks the department of education has done anything besides sabotage education. Your beneficiary of that spending is the left, not the middle class.
Social Security? Conservatives have been trying to fundamentally change social security for a generation — the left is the primary roadblock. For most of the middle class, the 401K provides a far better retirement and they would much rather have the amount of those taxes in that 401K rather than being robbed by congress.
Ultimately, welfare and medicaid entitlements are the primary devil when it comes to the federal budget, and they are nothing more than the left trying to recreate the old Roman “bread and circuses” society. The left creates an underclass, then feeds and entertains it to buy their votes.
I am offended that you slander the middle class for the sins of the left that the middle class opposes. And then propose taxing the middle class to fund the left.
“I am offended that you slander the middle class for the sins of the left that the middle class opposes. And then propose taxing the middle class to fund the left.”
Well the Left didn’t get to where they are without HUGE NUMBERS of Middle Class people voting for them, as back in the past, when all this crap was created, the poor rarely voted, blacks simply didn’t vote, and Hispanics only existed in tiny numbers. The Middle Class had options, they chose the Socialist path.
Please name the largesse the middle class is enjoying from the government. You keep throwing that out there, but so far I haven’t heard what you think it is.
For the most part, the middle class is screwed either way. Democrats are going to rob them to to pay for the bread and circuses that buy votes from the lower class mobs. Republicans saturate the professional job market with H1Bs to suppress wages.
When you look at who votes for socialism, the democrat areas are all inner cities. Even in relatively liberal states, the suburbs are often pretty reliably conservative. Your professional, middle class people who vote democrat are mostly government employees. They have a middle class lifestyle, but lower class morals and addiction to other people’s money.
I know I am not getting any checks, just a huge tax bill.
I support DoD continuing with space defense work. But the well-meaning, noble, and awe-inspiring non-defense missions of NASA are simply luxuries that the USA clearly cannot afford.
The departments of Education, HUD, Labor, and many others ought to be phased out too.
A billion here and a billion there....pretty soon we would be saving some real money that we've been recklessly borrowing.
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That's true, I don't. That's why I support DoD space defense work.
Unlike purely scientific missions, which can be funded privately by whomever, space defense is part of national defense...as required in the Constitution.
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What...the recent US Women's Soccer Championship wasn't enough pride for you? How about the Olympics next year? How about MAGA? If those don't bring pride, I don't know what will!
Please tell all of us how "a revitalized space program could take us out of debt."
How could it raise $23 TRILLION in new dollars? From whom?
Might the Chinese government, for example, really buy that much cargo space on US launch vehicles?
Maybe if we captured one of those solid gold asteroids...
Oh wait, that's what private space ventures are aiming to do. Never mind.
The space program from the 60’s fundamentally changed the world as it sped up innovation for the next 30 to 40 years. That small investment back then has produced far more than 23 trillion dollars in ROI.
Like the moon mission, the goal was set, the how was not. I know that was abstraction back then and its something yours and other peoples minds do not want because everything must be concrete. This leaves no room for adaptation.
So we limit our national pride to one or two events? Man, you know nothing of national pride. Limiting pride to only a few things limits pride. I for one never want to limit my patriotism and nationalism, my sense of pride for this country.
Okay I will forget assinine comments such as yours.
Really? How much ROI $ did it produce, Einstein?
The technological gains eventually produced dollars for the private sector.
So it only makes sense to cut out the middleman (government) and let the private sector do the investing and take the risk. Private investors actually calculate the risk, unlike government, which usually proceeds blindly ahead, based on the short-term selfish political "calculations" of politicians.
And no, NASA did not put the USA $23 Trillion in debt.
But this isn't the 1960's. Today's NASA is adding to our debt, just like so many other bureaucratic federal job programs that are nice and inspiring to have.
You certainly trust the geniuses in Washington to make the right choices, don't you. Let's see the recent results...Oh yes, that $23 Trillion in red ink is still growing.
I never intended to deprive you of your precious & inspiring space missions. I'm just glad to let Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, etc. bring them to us. So far they seem willing to share the photos with us all.
So we limit our national pride to one or two events? Man, you know nothing of national pride.
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Clearly I know all about national pride. I gave you 3 examples of such prideful events. You only gave ONE example...NASA.
. I will forget assinine comments such as yours
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There it is! The personal insult (misspelled, by the way) that proves you gave up and lost the debate.
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