F-35: Is America's Most Expensive Weapon of War the Ultimate Failure?

http://nationalinterest.org/ ^ | Dan Grazier

[BBell]

A lot to process especially if you are a layman like me.

So in my unqualified opinion, it has become too big to fail.

[MeganC]

The F-35 is such a turd as a fighter.

But it’s an awesome excuse for political payoffs!

[Cicero]

one of Bill Clinton’s last big gifts to the country. And regrettably—as usual—W refused to reverse it.

[Snickering Hound]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/03/08/drone-milestone-more-rpa-jobs-any-other-pilot-position.html

What has snuck under the radar is that there are now more drone pilots than any other type in the USAF.

Over 1000 drone operator pilots, only 803 F-16 and 889 C-17.

[Flick Lives]

This clearly doesn’t bother the senior Pentagon officials who are pushing to move forward with production despite the unresolved deficiencies. Already, 235 of the deficiency-ridden aircraft have been nominally designated “combat ready” and delivered to active Air Force and Marine Corps squadrons. The consequences of this plan for safety and effective tactics in operational unit training, let alone combat, are unknown.

This is just another fractal of the same problem as the Florida school shooting. It's government. The only things that are important to government are...

• Bigger budgets every year
• Filling out forms to make it look like you're meeting goals, even if you're not
• Don't ask questions
• Don't answer questions
• Suck up to your boss
• Pass blame to others

That something works or achieves a goal is immaterial.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Having worked for programs that get out of control, as this one did, I can say that there were two things in the procurement process (three if you really believe having a fly off to determine the program prime contract was done before each contractor had spent a fortune to get a final design — which I don’t think was practical in this case) that were always going to ensure that the procurement would be flawed.

1. The plane was going to be stealthy, something we like but which is also a huge complication when designing a weapons ready aircraft. and
2. The plane was so expensive that it had to meet the requirements of three branches of the service. (Couldnot be done with one version).

So right off the bat, the procurement was going to fail. However, this does not prevent the procurement committees from going forward and spending lots of money.

The only question to ask when considering whether a new weapon is a failure or not is whether it is a superior weapon when fielded. We will really not know this until we have another war and put these new fighters into the action.

[BuffaloJack]

If the F-35 is America’s Most Expensive Weapon of War, does that mean it costs more than an aircraft carrier or a nuclear submarine?

[Pearls Before Swine]

The program does, if not each aircraft.

[lurk]

Too many cooks in the kitchen. This practice of adding all kinds of toys to make it a super duper mega neat plane started with the cost run-ups of the F-16.

Time to throw everyone out of the room and start over. Not holding my breath.

[AFreeBird]

L8r

[pfflier]

The Marines are routinely flying them out of MCAS Yuma and have been flying them for the past year and more. Compared to the AV-8B, the F-35 is easier to fly, easier to control in all of the flight envelope especially hover, is better for situational awareness, less task intensive on the pilot and more survivable in a battlefield environment.

My next door neighbor flys them and says they are quantum levels better than the Harrier if the Marines want to keep the same mission capabilities. In that case, it is not a failure it is the necessary next generation replacement for the Harrier.

Whether that fits the needs of the other two mission variants I can't say. But the Marines flying them now feel they will live long enough to retire. It is a success for them.

[freedumb2003]

>>Too many cooks in the kitchen<<

Definition of a camel: a mouse as designed by government committee.

[Midwesterner53]

The F 22 is far superior. This is another example of a DoD boondoggle.

[blueunicorn6]

I am not a pilot.

It flies and it shoots.

Fix the other problems.

Perfection is a laudable goal, but impossible to achieve.

Our last big loss of combat aircraft in the air was probably in the early 1970s.

45 years?

Here is how much we should spend for Defense:

$1 more than it costs to keep someone from fighting with us.

Nobody knows for sure how much that is, so we make calculations.

We just don’t know for sure.

Now, is there thievery in the defense supply business?

Oh yeah.

I’m sorry, but we are going to have to start hanging thieves. There are too many of them and they aren’t afraid of prison.

[The Antiyuppie]

Meanwhile, the Rooskies and Chinese build lots of less costly “good enough” weapons.

Stalin did say, “quantity has a quality all its own”.

[The Antiyuppie]

That Harrier (especially the first British model) was supposed to be the most difficult to fly piece of equipment ever built. Any failure of any kind, equipment or pilot, usually resulted in a crash.

[Telepathic Intruder]

Cost to build Gerald R. Ford: a little over $10 billion.
F-35 budget to date: almost $400 billion. $163 million per aircraft.

The F-22 is supposed to be the expensive one. Including research and development, each aircraft costs about $339 million per aircraft. But now that development is over, each additional one is only about $138 million. And it's a much better plane.

[catnipman]

looks like the U.S. is taking lessons from India:

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/india-took-35-years-make-its-first-tank-it-was-total-18499

[Ronin]

I’m probably in the minority here, but I’m going to get out and front and say the F-35 is going to be a much more potent and effective platform than anyone seems to be willing to believe at this stage.

Yes, it has been far more expensive than was originally envisioned — but that is scarcely the first time that has happened. Yes, they are still working out bugs — but nobody wants to talk about how many of those were caused by changing service requirements. Yes, it has taken longer to get into the field than anyone ever contemplated — but the same two answers apply.

But it is in the field, in limited numbers, our allies are taking delivery on birds now, and the USS Wasp has a squadron of B variants onboard and operating.

But you know the real kicker? The real reason I am reasonably confident that the F-35 will be an extremely effective airplane? It’s because the Japanese Self Defense Forces are staying with the program. They didn’t have to. There was a serious push several years ago to drop the Lightning in favor of the F-15SE, which would have been much cheaper, far easier to integrate into the current JASDF, and available much sooner.

Japan does not have the luxury of buying an aircraft that they do not think will work. China is an immediate, clear, and dangerous threat. If they are staying with the F-35 it’s because they think it is the most effective platform available.

[DesertRhino]

Actually no, it doesn’t shoot. They are working on that. The gunsite doesnt work, and it carries about a third of the ammunition of an F-18 or F-16.

as far as flying yeah kinda it’s the slowest thing we have fielded since the 1950s