Causes of Autism

Mayo Clinic ^ | NA | Mayo Clinic Staff

[Garth Tater]

Mom, are you still unable to admit that you made mistakes in our conversation about CO2?

Seriously? After all of your errors that I have pointed out and documented to you? Oh well, lets do it one more time, just for fun. But just a couple of your errors this time as I have things to do today.

Your statement quoted below is a self-serving confabulation which I am sure you actually believe - but that does not make it true:

"As I recall, you combined two separate things that I said. One, is that the basic building block of biological molecules in *all* organisms is CO2, no exceptions. The other is that another poster could mock his rabidly liberal (and unthinking niece) by telling her that every item in the Thanksgiving spread was atmospheric CO2 a few short months ago. I have already deconstructed your misrepresentation of what I said several times; there is no need to go over that again."

I didn't combine two statements to try to make it appear that you made a mistake. You actually made two separate statements - both of which were wrong.

First you said:

"Wonderful. Just keep reminding her that every bit of food on the table was atmospheric carbon dioxide just a few short months ago."

I provided you two examples that proved that statement false.

1. A long dead tree in my backyard being consumed by Turkey Tail mushrooms (an edible species) - none of that tree was "atmospheric carbon dioxide just a few short months ago."

2. Oceanic plant life that consumed CO2 spewed out by undersea volcanoes - CO2 which had never been in the atmosphere.

Do you remember how you simply ignored my first example of your mistatement and how in attempting to refute my second example you provided me with a cute little graphic showing how undersea volcanoes emit CO2 from subducted limestone? Did you really think that I didn't know (or maybe you didn't know) that volcanoes also emit CO2 sourced from non-sedimentary rocks - CO2 that was never, at any time, a part of the atmosphere?

Selective memory Mom - did they teach you that in university or was that a survival technique that you learned when you took that govt job and became a bureaucrat?


Your second incorrect statement was when you said, and I quote:

"Again, no exception. Anaerobes use biomolecules to form their bodies, and, just as with aerobes, those biomolecules were originally formed from CO2 through the process of photosynthesis."

Here was my response that proved your statement false. [ link to my post ]

Well golly gee Mom. here is a link to an article by Professor G. Jeffrey Taylor, Ph.D at the Hawai‘i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology < link > that states:


"Recent research on deep rocks on Earth has shown that bacteria can live kilometers beneath the surface. Some bacteria live on nothing but rock and water, extracting energy from chemical reactions rather than from sunlight."

I guess those particular biomolecules Dr. Taylor is describing would be an exception to your statement that all "those biomolecules were originally formed from CO2 through the process of photosynthesis"

Do you see how you tried to fudge your words to make them appear correct Mom. Your words weren't

"the basic building block of biological molecules in *all* organisms is CO2, no exceptions."

What you actually said was:

"Again, no exception. Anaerobes use biomolecules to form their bodies, and, just as with aerobes, those biomolecules were originally formed from CO2 through the process of photosynthesis."

Quite clearly wrong in light of Dr. Taylor's statement that "Some bacteria live on nothing but rock and water, extracting energy from chemical reactions rather than from sunlight."

But that's okay Mom. you just keep on remembering things your way if it helps keep your tattered, little government scientist ego intact. And always remember, no matter what you say or what you do, you will always be my favorite little Ph.D LOL

[Garth Tater]

"If you would actually study valid science for a few years, starting with basic chemistry, biology, physics, and mathematics, and working your way to more complicated subjects, you might actually develop an understanding of the "big picture.""

That's hilarious Mom, coming from a "real" scientist (in the life sciences even) that did not know where the CO2 on this planet originated.

[Garth Tater]

Mom. why are you trying to correct me when I pointed out your overly broad statement that:

"Vaccines consist of a killed or attenuated pathogen, or of proteins extracted from a pathogen"

You know that you were being imprecise there and the word salad that you responded to my point with does not change the fact that the tetanus vaccine contains a toxoid derived from the toxin produced by the pathogen (Clostridium tetan) and not the pathogen itself.

I just asked you a simple question as to why your statement did not include other vaccine types and you went off on one of your typical tirades accusing me of scientific illiteracy when the fact of the matter is, you were imprecise in your statement and you actually owned up to that fact in a later post when you said:

"And I very specifically was not trying to cover every vaccine type, but to convey an idea of what vaccines are to an audience that is not scientists. "

So, you now say you were not try to cover every vaccine type and yet when I pointed this out you accused me of scientific illiteracy. Nice Mom. Real professional.

Can I ask you a question Mom? After admitting that you were being less than precise, why did you try to make it appear that my facts and reasoning were wrong when I pointed out this imprecision on your part? Is it really that hard for you to take even the slightest criticism?

And why did you come up with this attempt to validate your imprecise statement?

"Do you seriously expect me to write a 200 page dissertation on the various vaccine types and production methods?"

You know that I previously suggested that you should simply have added in the word "Most."

"Most vaccines consist of a killed or attenuated pathogen, or of proteins extracted from a pathogen" would have been a correct statement and I wouldn't have felt obliged to correct you. One word Mom - a 200 page dissertation would not have been needed.

"I present the facts in as impersonal a manner as I can--this is how we learn to communicate when we become scientists. Not that you would know anything about that; you'd have to actually study scientific subjects in university to learn that method of communication."

Mom, that is not how you communicate. You are well known for ignoring anything your conversational opponent says that interfers with your pontifications. Take the case above as an example. You said, "Do you seriously expect me to write a 200 page dissertation" knowing full well that I had just suggested to you that a single word would have actually made your overly broad statement correct. Here let me quote my previous statement to you:

"Just a suggestion, but in the future when you are trying to simplify an explanation for your audience you should consider using a qualifier like, "most" or "generally speaking" - you know, something to make your statement fully correct and not a slight misstatement of the facts. "

So no, I don't think that is how you were taught to communicate in university. Real scientists don't ignore what has already been said in a discussion in order to demean their opponent or to aggrandize themselves. I believe you learned to ignore anything and everything that contradicts what you want to say after you became a bureaucrat.

Do I expect you to write a 200 page dissertation? No, Mom. I really do expect you to continue using your statements of absolute certainty (where a more qualified statement would actually be correct) as befits a "real" govt scientist bureaucrat. LOL

How about we have a little more fun with your communications skills Mom. Here is another example of your ability to ignore what you don't want to see in order to refute your opponent.

When I said,

"Or how about the ability of tetanus immunizations to cause Antiphospholipid Syndrome?"

You responded with:

So, "antiphospholipid syndrome" is a synonym for tetanus now? Somehow, I don't think so.

But I didn't say "tetanus" now did I Mom? I said "tetanus immunizations." Quite the difference there - but you can't refute what I said or the link that I provided without changing "tetanus immunizations" to "tetanus" so you made the change and pretended that you in your great wisdom were right once again.

That is not how they taught you to communicate in university Mom. That is govt speak - and you do it oh so very well.

Are we having fun yet Mom? I'm really kind of busy today so I won't be able to correct all of your errors, so let me finish up here with just one more.

You said:

"Barring manufacturing errors (which have happened), a vaccine is utterly incapable of causing the disease it is meant to prevent."

Utterly incapable of causing the disease? Again with the absolutes Mom? Here let me point you to CDC guidelines which recommend against giving certain vaccines to persons who have immunocompromised household members due to the risk of the disease being vaccinated against being passed on to the immunocompromised person.

Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP): Use of Vaccines and Immune Globulins in Persons with Altered Immunocompetence

And just because one link is never enough (for you to ignore LOL)

Can the Chickenpox Vaccine Cause Shingles Later in Life?

"Although chickenpox vaccines do contain a weakened version of the live virus, which can reactivate later in life and cause shingles, this is very rare"
                - Dr. William Schaffner, doctor of preventative medicine at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee, and a leading infectious disease expert.

Just two simple exceptions to your "Utterly incapable" statement which I am sure you can refute with a little bureaucratic verbal misdirection and a wall of meaningless text. I have faith in you Mom, don't let me down.

[Disestablishmentarian]

>>Before widespread measles vaccination, nearly 3 million people died of it every year.<<

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NOT TRUE!

Here is from the CDC website:
In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles.

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

[exDemMom]

My numbers are worldwide rates, not US rates. I thought I made that clear.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

[George from New England]

Don’t see this in this thread ...

Birth Control Pill Causes Autism - Fathers’ Manifesto

fathersmanifesto.net/autismbirthcontrol.htm

[9YearLurker]

Surely part of it is definition.

It used to be autism was a very, very rare disorder with children completely unable to communicate, etc.

Now they toss in everything from what was then known as mental retardation to almost any behavioral issue or unpopular personality quirk.

That said, debilitating issues do seem to have increased dramatically, whether primarily through vaccinations, environmental stuff, or whatever.

[9YearLurker]

You could theoretically get it with changing the standards (though I don’t think it is just that) and certainly the changed standards have contributed to the numbers.

[AppyPappy]

I have autism although it is very slight. In the old days before the Earth cooled, we simply learned to cope with it. We didn’t have computers or video games or fidget spinners to indulge the “beast” as I call it. My sole indulgence was reading, which I did all the time. If you indulge it with “push” technology like computers or video games, it gets worse. As I grow older, it gets worse. Luckily, I became a programmer so I don’t have to “adult” all day.
Autism(Aspergers) was probably common when I was growing up but we learned to keep it in check.

[9YearLurker]

But it wasn’t classified as such back then.

That was just considered a quirk of personality.