Posted on 07/30/2017 11:33:35 AM PDT by Strac6
If history has taught us anything, it has taught us that failure to deal with dictators early in their existence only ensures that we must deal with them later, at a much higher price.
For example, Hitler’s orders to his troops during what amounted to Germany’s invasion of Austria was that they were to retreat and return to Germany at the slightest effective resistance. However, Austria (and the rest of Europe) tried to appease Hitler, and the 10 years was a glaring example of the history referenced above.
This is the situation we are currently facing regarding North Korea and Kim Jong-Un. Actually, it’s the situation we have faced since the Clinton administration first appeased North Korea and Kim’s father decades ago. The reality is that Kim is far from the madman some would like to portray him as. He is ruthless, smart, and as a result of those two “attributes”, he is getting what he wants on the world stage. His latest test launches prove he has developed intercontinental range ballistic missiles. The question of whether or not he can currently fit a nuclear warhead to the top of those missiles is moot. If he cannot now do so, he will be able to do so, and most certainly will do so in the very near future.
Once he has nuclear -tipped ICBMs Kim can dictate what he wants, not just on the Korean Peninsula and the surrounding waters, but throughout the entire world. So the reality becomes that we must either stop them now, or stop him at a much greater cost later when the threat of his retaliation becomes reality, or perhaps, following the current trends of the Western world, be prepared to dance to his tune for the next millennia.
We cannot depend on China to stop North Korea. North Korea provides a great service to China, and I’m not talking about the coal the PRC imports from the DPRK. North Korea is a huge practical, strategic and diplomatic thorn in our side in eastern Asia. By forcing the United States to devote a large percentage of our defense expenditures and interests onto the Korean Peninsula, we take a great deal of pressure off Beijing.
Likewise the Japanese do not have the ability, the constitutional authority, nor the will to defeat the North Koreans. The news leader of South Korea has absolutely no intestinal fortitude to take on his northern neighbor, and has publicly said so. The bottom line is that the Japanese would be more than willing to help to the degree they can while the South Koreans “held our coats” if we decided to take definitive action against North Korea.
Another reality is that despite all the noise the Chinese and Russians would make if we decided to take out North Korea as an effective nuclear power, they really wouldn’t mind it that much, Moscow and Beijing both realize North Korean missiles can fly west just as easily as they can fly east.
The problem is, we need one, overriding, war-justifying act on the part of Kim to trigger a response. The “smart part” of Kim has been careful to push us to the brink, but not over it, and in the process, neither justifying nor triggering a military response to his launches.
Without that tipping-point justification we are severely limited by the political realities of the 21st century world. Kim’s latest ICBM launch may however point us in the direction of the solution to justify what history tells us is necessary.
The latest two launches have not followed traditional missile parabolas. Rather than launching for maximum range, these missiles have impacted only a short horizontal distance away from the launching point after having traveled to exceptionally high altitudes before heading back into the atmosphere. The now-demonstrated ability to achieve these total distances traveled by the missiles, including a 40 minute time-of-flight of the latest launch, prove that by simply reprogramming the missiles trajectory into a more horizontal plane they could have easily struck most of North America, including a majority of the East Coast of the United States.
So, in order to give us the justification we need, why don’t we help Kim do that?
Granted, I am slipping back into the days of dirty tricks diplomacy, but that worked exceptionally well for decades, why not give it another chance with this opportunity presents itself so well, as it does here, and the price of not taking effective action is so high.
The concept, which a few million dollars, yen, yuan in bribes could undoubtably create, would be to hack into the guidance computers of the next North Korean missile launch and lower the trajectory so the unarmed nosecone does in fact impact somewhere North America. Now I realize the danger that the relatively rudimentary guidance of a North Korean ICBM might create an impact in some good union worker’s house in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and kill the family pet turtle, but since Kim is launching without nuclear warheads, that would be a small price to pay for the justification of an attack that would completely eliminate his nuclear, missile, and other large-scale affective capabilities.
Think about it. As bizarre as it is, this errant missile impact would give POTUS the justification to do basically anything he wanted to do in return and retaliation. Even the screaming pinkos would be relatively silent when the president’s actions were so “clearly justified.”
Yes, I know it’s bizarre. But by 1939, Hitler’s aggressive war intentions were clearly understood throughout the world. Likewise Tojo had decreed the “Greater Southeast Asia Co-prosperity Severe.” Both had stated their intention to conquer the West in much less virulent terms then Kim uses now. If you were given the opportunity to go back in time and stop Hitler or Tojo before 30 million people died to fulfill their psychotic dreams, would you not do so?
Given the opportunity to stop Kim now, should we not do so? In fact, must not we do so...now?
Anyone else have any better ideas as to how to get away with it?
If you can’t make a case for war with Congress, the answer is not some fake CIA crap. At least that was in America as designed.
The underlying assumption behind every false flag CIA operation is that they know best, and that society should go to war based on a lie.
People know lies eventually, and then come to resent them, especially when it gets them sent to war. This corrodes faith in our government. I would dare say that the cynicism in America against any new wars is the direct result of a near perfect record of dishonesty on our government, post WWII. And the constant CIA deep state lies are more dangerous to America than any Nork Missile.
There simply is no shortcut. Go to congress and make your case and ask for a declaration of war. If you cant get that done, how in hell will you get the people to support the actual war effort and god only knows what it unleashes?
The almost 100% record of dishonesty coming from DC is our greatest threat. That needs to be radically changed first. Not just get it done with a lie.
In a related thought, I believe all continuity of government plans should be prohibited and no longer funded.
If they get us nuked, the very last thing I want is for the same silly asses to emerge and assert power in the rubble. We should at least get a new government out of it.
Only deep staters and neocons believe the Norks are a threat.
Let the RoK and Japs take the lead here. It’s their neighborhood.
The RoK could squash the Norks like a bug. 80 times the GDP and 3x the population it’s not even close.
the sky is not falling chicken little
I ask two questions:
Do you agree that the DPRK must be stopped before they gain an intercontinental city-killing bargaining chip?
Would the DC dopes ever give POTUS a DOW?
“...My idea? Howzabout Just ONCE, instead of lying more than a woman of reproductive age, and concocting fake BS, maybe DC should make an intelligent, coherent case, go before Congress, ask for a Declaration or War, and then simply attack them....”
finally a adult enters the conversation
thank you
Yes, Japan and the RoK could have stopped the Norks 8 years ago..., but now that the DPRK has deliverable nuc weapons?
No.
PS, general assumption is Japan probably has nucs as well, but would never use them unless attacked.
Seems to me we’re looking at this back asswards in trying to figure out how to hit an ICBM on its way down to the target when it’s moving at about 15,000 mph. Hard to hit something moving that fast. However, it takes about 5 minutes for an ICBM to reach burnout stage. It would make sense to me to target the ICBM as it climbs. At that point a supersonic rocket could track, hit, and destroy the missile.
I would not use nukes. Barrages of missiles on various sites and try to take the guy out at the same time (don’t know how well we can locate him) Tell the chinese and russians two hours in advance to stay out.
Get back up from Japans and let South korea stay out. The future of NK is with South Korea economically and for every other reason.
Tell china if we can denuke NK and get rid of the guy and untie the country we will leave the peninsula milirarilly and just do business.
look Field Marshall Clausewitz
why can’t you convince Congress to declare war ?
Oh, they work fine. In WWI the lies worked great. Somewhere around 41 million people agree. If JFK would have let Northwoods happen we might have has a nuclear war. 58,000 will vouch for Tonkin. All of Poland can vouch for efficacy of the SS false flag Operation Gleiwitz.
If the only standard for our government is “does it work”, that is the ethos of the sociopath. America was created to be something more and better.
I would ask you then, if you got a war based on an absolute lie, would you be offended if you saw large movements in the country opposing it? Refusing to be drafted? Refusing to pay for it? Or is it your position that if the liars can manipulate us into it with a trick, that all Americans should fall in line?
Just try the truth and open route to war. Hell, it hasn’t been tried for 75 years. It might be fun to try actual honesty and building your case just to see what happens!
The one thing I like most about Trump is that he isn’t a liar. Lets not make him one.
The answer is in post 7. Period. Tax the crap out of everything from China and stop the tax when they deal with North Korea. When China has to pay for their wayward protege they will address him decisively.
This is a WAG on my part and only based on media coverage here and in China, but I felt like the Chinese Premiere may have viewed this crisis as a chance for China to step up as a responsible partner. It appears, another WAG on my part based on Chinese media, that he hit a brick wall when he returned home from his meetings with Trump. There remains a very powerful hard-line faction in China that seems to have a cold-war worldview and persuading them is the key.
Absent a cause belli, I could not, and would not try, but you are the one asking that we should try.
Could you get a DOW out of this weenie Congress?
Which all leads to the overriding question, are you willing to wait until Kim has an ICBM-deliverable nuc?
I agree with all your points in the abstract, but in the 2017 world, are you willing to let Kim develop an ICBM-deliverable nuc?
If not, how can we prevent it?
The problem with any increased duty on products from China is that such increased duty would by paid, not by the PRC, but by the American consumer, because most of our consumer good come form there, and it would take months for alternative manufacturing, supply and delivery chains to be put in place.
“The “MOABs are dropped from C-130s.”
Good information. I did not know.
Amen, DR! As much as I, personally, fantasize about covert and/or clandestine ops and sabotage, this should be an open dialog. I know that or Constitution is built, unfortunately, to be reactive, but it gives allowances that are devastating to our events. Un was educated in the west. He should understand this.
Agree on the downside, but how do we measure that versus a conflict and potentially staggering casualties on the peninsula to include our own forces?
There has to be a trade somewhere. On top of that, there is the reality that any conflict in Korea would create an economic disruption of its own as well.
By now you are well aware that there are a bunch of closet libs, even on this forum, that subscribe to the "COEXIST" BS that was the Hussein 0bama strategy.
When they see a blinding flash, feel the global warming temp rise to 10,000 degrees Celsius and experience an overpressure of 1000 PSI, they'll know for an instant that kim has sent his calling card and it is too late to go PRE-EMPTIVE.
so because you are a brilliant genius and far smarter than our elected representatives, you believe it’s perfectly reasonable to break the highest law of the land ( constitution ) and kill a few million people ?
If you can’t even convince Congress to vote on a declaration of war, then your argument sucks.
Seems like we should be sitting just outside NORK waters and be “practicing” with our missile intercept technology. Why send up “drones” to shoot down when you can shoot at the real thing? Stop everything coming out of NORK and he’ll run out of rocket fuel eventually. We’d get the practice and be able to tweak the technology and Kim couldn’t get a missile past his international boundary.
I think the triggering event would be the test flight demonstrating that the entire nuclear weapon system development cycle had been completed. That is, launch of a long range missile on an attack trajectory (even if depressed/shortened) followed by release and controlled reentry of a simulated warhead somewhere in the eastern Pacific Ocean. At that point, North Korea will have forged the weapon needed to deliver on its threats to the US, South Korea, Japan, etc. and simultaneously liberated itself from dependence on the PRC and Russian nuclear umbrellas for protection.
The ultimate goal of Juche will have been achieved.
As for the response to the trigger event, I think the Chinese (and possibly the Russians) will invade North Korea. They will strike suddenly and violently with the intent to depose the Kim regime, sieze and dismantle the entirety of the nuclear weapons program, and bundle all the associated program equipment, materials, associated records and key personnel off into the interior of China for “safekeeping.”
They will do this not out of any great love for the United States but because they don’t want a war possibly involving the delivery of nuclear weapons to the Korean Peninsula to break out. They also don’t want a nuclear arms race developing with two very capable adversaries, South Korea and Japan. They also don’t want east Asia to become saturated with effective ABM systems including their farseeing radars. Finally, if North Korea were to be attacked by the United States or its East Asian allies, it will probably trigger mutual defense agreements they have with their Korean War ally to come to its defense.
If they move in very quickly and execute decisively, they can forestall all these possibilities.
There are, of course, some pretty significant downsides to this course of action. The first is the absolute need to find and secure all North Korean nuclear weapons. The second is defeating the 1 million strong DPRK army or at least getting it to stand aside/down, The third is keeping the population of North Korea inside North Korea and the basic administrative structure intact enough so that the country can function.
Second only to securing the nuclear weapons, it is also utmost necessity to find and eliminate the Kim family and all their core supporters. They have been the guiding hand and driving force behind this effort for 3 generations. Their leader cult approaches divinity and that plus the momentum of past decisions has compelled them to follow this course to its conclusion. In order to break this cycle, you must break them.
Then, maybe, the North Korean people will be delivered from their nightmare.
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