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On this day in 1968

Posted on 03/16/2017 4:39:39 AM PDT by Bull Snipe

Troops of Co C, 1st Bat. 20th Inf. Reg. 11 Brig. 23rd ID attacked the Vietnamese village of My-Lai. By the end of the day the village and its population were largely destroyed.


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: 1968; mylai; vietnam; vietnamwar
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1 posted on 03/16/2017 4:39:39 AM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: Bull Snipe

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and bad orders.


2 posted on 03/16/2017 4:46:08 AM PDT by Liaison (TANSTAAFL)
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To: Bull Snipe

It takes a village to be saved.


3 posted on 03/16/2017 4:48:47 AM PDT by Paladin2 (No spellcheck. It's too much work to undo the auto wrong word substitution on mobile devices.)
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To: Bull Snipe

General “Jumping” Jack Singlaub had an interesting take on this in his book “Hazardous Duty.” As I recall from reading it some time ago Singlaub was briefly in the Pentagon and working on personnel issues. He said their way of reducing officers was taking out all the good ones which would later force them to promote unfit officers. He used Lieutenant Calley as an example.


4 posted on 03/16/2017 5:00:00 AM PDT by \/\/ayne (I regret that I have but one subscription cancellation notice to give to my local newspaper.)
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To: Bull Snipe
I was in Radar school on Treasure Island, San Francisco. Joined the Navy to avoid going to Viet Nam. Got shipped to VN a year later";^)

You can't tell me that God doesn't have a sense of humor!

5 posted on 03/16/2017 5:00:32 AM PDT by Politically Correct (A member of the rabble in good standing)
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To: Bull Snipe

Like many others, I served after Calley’s trial, and was briefed on my obligation not to follow illegal orders.

Of course, we were not told how to determine a legal from an illegal order, or what the mechanism was for the proper way to refuse an illegal order. Essentially all this did was to further stir up the muddy water.

Go back and read about public sentiment at the time this was unfolding.


6 posted on 03/16/2017 5:11:41 AM PDT by wrench
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To: \/\/ayne

A very good book on the officer corps in Vietnam
written in 1978 by 2 Army Majors. I believe nearly all of their reccomendations were eventually implemented. Hard Hitting and Powerful, still have my original copy. ( and ain’t ever selling it )

Amazingly available on Amazon for $16 which suggests the military leaders still use it for guidence. Link to Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Command-Mismanagement-Richard-Gabriel/dp/0809001403


7 posted on 03/16/2017 5:12:04 AM PDT by vooch
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To: Bull Snipe
A miserable crime and the responsible people - starting with Medina and Calley - should have been hanged.

That single atrocity gave the enemy the gift that they were looking for to smear all of the hard work and combat all the rest of us had to struggle to do the right way.

Hope they fry in Hell.

8 posted on 03/16/2017 5:22:19 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: vooch

Read the reviews, that’s exactly what Singlaub was talking about! I’ll have to read that book.


9 posted on 03/16/2017 5:23:36 AM PDT by \/\/ayne (I regret that I have but one subscription cancellation notice to give to my local newspaper.)
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To: Politically Correct

Missed you, sort of, by two years. My Dad joined the Navy for similar reasons, and ended up Riverine, though on an LST on a big river. After his stint in Nam he was posted to Treasure Island in early ‘70. I was born very soon thereafter in Oak Knoll Naval Hospital—just missed being born in Japan.


10 posted on 03/16/2017 5:47:58 AM PDT by Hieronymus (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G. K. Chesterton)
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To: wrench

When I was in Navy OCS the question of illegal orders came up. The JAG instructor said that the determination if an order was legal or illegal would be made at your General Court Martial.


11 posted on 03/16/2017 5:51:09 AM PDT by Bull Snipe (ueewl ocwe)
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To: Bull Snipe

My understanding, as well.

One lasting effect of this is all civilian deaths in a war zone are now viewed in this light by the media.


12 posted on 03/16/2017 5:56:41 AM PDT by wrench
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To: vooch

Thank you for suggesting the book. I was in college in 1968 and understand the context. I also experienced the emotions of on one hand supporting freedom lovers and the clear mess we were doing of executing the war. Out of all of that, I did learn that we just think we plan our lives and careers, that is in another’s hands.

On the opposite side of the coin is one of the best books on business management (not military but some things are the same) and personal life. In 1988, I was leaving a company for which I had worked for 14 years. It had sold 2 years prior. One of my friends in that company who knew I was leaving wanted me to read this book before I left. I did and returned the book and left the company. (I had VP title at the time) He remained and became the chief operations officer of the company. I worked for him again for 5 year, many years later. (We’ve been friends since 1972)

The Book:

The Power of Ethical Management (ISBN 10: 0688070620)

by Norman V. Peale, Ken Blanchard

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Ethical-Management-Norman-Peale/dp/0688070620

February 11, 1988

Money line: “The numbers can all be right and the decision still be wrong”

It’s a very short book. New hard copies on amazon sell for about the same price as the one you mentioned. I’ve had my copy a long time.


13 posted on 03/16/2017 5:57:16 AM PDT by Texas Fossil ((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
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To: Bull Snipe

LOL


14 posted on 03/16/2017 5:57:55 AM PDT by Politically Correct (A member of the rabble in good standing)
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To: Chainmail

The Communists pointed to the destruction of a village to show the brutality of the Americans.

Then proceeded to destroy countless villages themselves.


15 posted on 03/16/2017 6:00:24 AM PDT by AppyPappy (Don't mistake your dorm political discussions with the desires of the nation)
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To: Bull Snipe
Lt. William Calley's conviction in early 1971 generated widespread outrage in the US among both hawks and doves. This record became an instant hit.

The Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley--C Company (1971)

16 posted on 03/16/2017 6:01:35 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Bull Snipe

That is a very good line summarizing what can be a very big problem in many institutions. On the other hand, casual questioning of orders can quickly bring an institution to a standstill.

The Japanese have a proverb which captures the flip side of “The squeaky wheel gets the grease”: The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.


17 posted on 03/16/2017 6:04:21 AM PDT by Hieronymus (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G. K. Chesterton)
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To: Bull Snipe

On this day in 1968, Oklahoma and Arkansas were locked in with 14 inches of “only a dry front” blowing snow. The area was shut down for a week or two as many people were without power, and no one had a 4-WD except the local banker.


18 posted on 03/16/2017 6:27:55 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Bull Snipe

I was privy to several ‘retribution’ attacks on folks in RVN. It would serve us well to read up on what happened prior to, during, and after the My Lai event. I would not be so quick to judge. RVN 1969-70.


19 posted on 03/16/2017 7:13:54 AM PDT by firebasecody
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To: AppyPappy
"The Communists pointed to the destruction of a village to show the brutality of the Americans. Then proceeded to destroy countless villages themselves."

Of course they did; that's why we were there in the first place. Murder and intimidation was the primary tactic of the Vietcong.

It was never supposed to be ours. Calley and his bastards murdered women and kids and old people, they didn't just "destroy a village".

They also murdered the reputation of all of us who fought so hard to protect the Vietnamese people and to uphold our own honor as American fighting men.

20 posted on 03/16/2017 7:19:41 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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